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Basilides
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Comparing Mysticism
#5516469 - 04/14/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Perhaps, while the old debate of essence preceding existence versus existence preceding essence rages on, should we look at familiarities then in various mystical traditions, from Abrahamic to Dharmic? Why then, if these experiences are supposedly non-existent, that they all meet at an esoteric common ground?
For example...
West/Gnosticism: The human spirit is trapped in the manifestation of matter, in the fleshly body and with gnosis (divine knowledge) it can escape the illusion and return to the fullness of the Ground of Being, the Pleroma. Matter and Spirit are considered polar opposites, and all that is consumed by matter is destined to temporal form and existence, while all that is consumed by Spirit is destined to Fullness in an all-persisting Moment.
East/Dharmic Mysticism: In Buddhism, Bodhi (enlightenment) awakens one from the cycle of Samsara - Moha and Atta, birth, death and rebirth, into complete liberation from the perishing cycle, to a fullness, an all-persisting Moment. In Hindu mysticism, Existence is the illusion, the Maya, and the inclination of humans to identify only with existence (matter) is avidya, the ignorance of the self. When one becomes consumed by the Maya and their own avidya, they are trapped in a cycle of desire (a restless soul) and rebirth. With the awakening of the self in Moksha, one becomes liberated and at One with a fullness, an all-persisting Moment.
For those who, as they say, contend in the Primacy of Existence and Matter only, why do these various and vast symbols, which are a gathering of inner experiences that manifest collectively, meet at the same point - this, all persisting Now, so to speak?
Peace
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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Re: Comparing Mysticism [Re: Basilides]
#5516496 - 04/14/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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because the common goal in many religions is to become as close to godliness and you presumed notions of what that is. The correlation is between two styles of thought with a common idea of something tangible or intangible being grater than the self. Throw nihilism or existentialism in the mix and you will find that there is no correlation in the sense you speak of.
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SneezingPenis
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also, the same can be said about deeper mysticism, such as magic. Why did all these different, individual forms of personal power manifest on a similar basis: incantations, talismans/items and body position/waving of arms and hands?
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dblaney
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Magical objects (talismans, etc) and other forms of ritual all originated as being symbolic forms of worship of either a personal God or an impersonal God. Over the ages I presume, since it is now the case, many of these objects have become cult oriented and have become the actual object of worship, instead of as a symbol.
Personally though, if I find a finger pointing at the moon, I'd contemplate the moon, not the finger pointing at it (intriguing as the finger may be).
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dblaney
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The correlation is between two styles of thought with a common idea of something tangible or intangible being grater than the self.
From my understanding of Vedanta, the Atman (individual Self) is indistinguishable from Brahman (universal Self or absolute Reality), different words are used just as a manner of speaking.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dblaney
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Re: Comparing Mysticism [Re: Basilides]
#5516636 - 04/14/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Indeed, at the core of essentially all religions from around the globe is one and the same teaching. It's been referred to as the Perennial Philosophy. Huxley wrote a book with the same title, and I would highly recommend it!
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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SneezingPenis
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Re: Comparing Mysticism [Re: dblaney]
#5516737 - 04/14/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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what about voodoo?
also, there is still a distinction between the almighty/supreme knowledge and the self, and one is to grow in knowledge and spirituality to reach a certain goal, if they have, then they would cease to reincarnate. I could be talking out of my ass on this one, but that is what I have gathered so far.
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dblaney
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there is still a distinction between the almighty/supreme knowledge and the self
Yes, but only from our vantage point. From the point of absolute Reality (of which we are a part), there is no distinction whatsoever. And I think the experience of this unity is really the supreme goal.
and one is to grow in knowledge and spirituality to reach a certain goal
Most definitely!
if they have, then they would cease to reincarnate.
Exactly, except for those who walk the path of the Bodhisattva, who reincarnate for birth after birth until all sentient beings have awoken.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dblaney
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what about voodoo?
That's a good question...I guess Voodoo could be considered a type of shamanism. The shaman is an interesting person, I don't think they necessarily worship items, rather they use them as tools; means for achieving an end, which in their case is understanding and mastering various forces they are aware of, that may very well exist on a level more subtle than we are aware of.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Basilides
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At the base of each tradition though, there is nothing but differences at the exoteric level. Legalistic mind sets tend to hate the followers of other faiths more than Satan himself. Yet, the living pearl of each tradition is a single one, as they are all the same, as opposed to dozens of pearls attributed to dozens of spiritual paths.
Peace
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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