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Offlinedoufus
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Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 59
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys
    #5515112 - 04/14/06 08:34 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

This might be better placed in another forum but...

Basically i've been "responsible" all my life- wife, kids, job.
Lucky with all of them. love them to bits. 47 yrs old. Never tried entheogens but fully intend to once our last child has left for
college and the "next phase" can begin. Studied a lot of nondualism
and eastern philosophy over the last few years. There has been
a strong sense that the need to physically strive is diminishing
and it's time to lift the head up from the plough and take in
the almost finished field I've sown.

A few months back i had an amazing dream I described on this forum in
which i think i had a close brush with source. And associated with
that has been an increasing sense of "nowness" and clarity. In a
perceptual sense i was actually seeing colour and light in much
more intense ways. Noticing beauty from minute to minute and
finding myself able to turn off the chatter in my mind and
just "be". The problems i'd had with anxiety just disappeared.
Now just seemed perfect in every way. The answer to everything
was the same- utter, saturating silence where questions evaporated
before they could even be asked.



WELL! The old ego must have felt pretty threatened by that because
it came racing back bigger and angrier than ever. Suddenly i
find myself unhappy with how i look. I've been swimming 2km a day
and running 5km at night. I now fit 32" waist jeans and weigh 170.
I start to think i'm looking good. Suddenly i don't think i'm paid
enough for the work i do. I fantasize about fucking a young girl
at work 22 years my junior.

Whereas before each day was just another mystery to be experienced,
now it's 1 step closer to death. I panic about the life i must
be mi


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Offlinedoufus
Stranger
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 59
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: doufus]
    #5515175 - 04/14/06 08:55 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Whoa.. the text field aove was too short to complete what i
wanted to say.

Basically, i now find myself panicking about running out of
time. I'm planning trips, experiences. Death seems close
again.

I'm amazed my ego reasserted itself so strongly.

I'm confused about where to go from here. I hate being an
arrogant idiot planning to fuck someone 22 yrs my junior.
But i'm not sure if i want to be a semi-monk, smiling
in ego abandon at every leaf in the breeze.


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Offlinekrin
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Registered: 11/20/04
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Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: doufus]
    #5515679 - 04/14/06 11:40 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

it doesnt matter,this existance is a model within absurdity.
Even if you can choose what to do,its all absolutely a strange psychedelic canundrum warping in on itself.

You will build things up to "important" based on definition structures,but these can be shattered,rebuilt,and shattered again etc...
You can believe in a higher purpose,or you cant
do you even choose?

I just see a circus, I wanna just enjoy myself in whatever capacity that enjoyment might come.
Because other than my immediate experience,nothign else seems to exist.
And Based on what I've seen,when someone dies,they no longer contact this realm.
So its definately a threshold or paradigm shift of some sort,if not complete obliteration.
What can you be expected to do but what you do?
Can you really be blamed for anything?Whats blame?
Does someone choose to not be given sufficient information?And then based on that lacking choose to make the wrong choices?
Of course not,we are all innocent,wild,strange abstractions twisting around in strange dimensional spaces.

There just IS

insane...stupid...beautiful
whatever


--------------------



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OfflineLedHead
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 931
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: krin]
    #5515794 - 04/14/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

krin i disagree, i believe our realms permeates all other realms and vice versa. im strongly buddhist and i do believe that we really are all interconnected.


--------------------
I'm a traveler of both time and space...


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Offlinekrin
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Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: LedHead]
    #5516052 - 04/14/06 01:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

ya thats not incompatible with absurdity
everything is interconnected,and what is the essence of all these things that are interconnected?

its absurd why anything is what it is.
There is no purpose for soemthign to take the form of what it does
and there is no reason why laws of nature,or the desire of a god,would be the way it is
its all infinite insanity
all explanations require further explanation

if you give me an explanation why soemthing is the way it is,there will be another question beckoning behind that
beyond the beyond
Absurd


--------------------



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Offlineshneck
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Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: LedHead]
    #5516114 - 04/14/06 01:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Man, don't wait, start psychedelics right here and right now - just as you do with preliminary buddhist practices, there's no time left to loose, life is fragile and you MUST NOT postpone this until next Monday/summer/year/etc.
I'm over 40 myself now and your story sounds very familiar except that I was lucky to get acquainted with psychedelics earlier than you. They really changed my life completely, once and for all. In fact, they triggered my interest in Eastern philosophy, Buddhism, shamanism as well as in Western psychology, psychiatry, chemistry, botanics, you name it.
It seems to be vice versa in your case but it just proves there are numerous ways leading to one destination. Middle age crisis is a common thing, it's time you re-evaluate your life priorities and start thinking about the purpose of life and the mystery of death. Psychedelics are a divine gift that may help in sorting the things out, especially when combined with other mind-expanding practices and teachings.
If I were you I would forget about all this "responsibility" crap, it's just one of the tricks ego plays with us to keep us from hurting it, along with persuading us we need to look better, be more successful to fit better into the framework of the social egregor. You will not love your wife and kids less if you try shrooms, LSD or mesc, in fact, you'll love them MORE; you won't lose your touch with the world but will rejuvenile it instead, and you will not become more confused but will acquire clarity and piece of mind so needed.
Guess, you know it all yourself and can put it better than me, just let me finish with a close citing of Terence McKenna who said once that one who has never tried psychedelic experience can be compared to one who has never tried sex in his life. And I'd say it may even be an underestimation.

Peace.


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Offlineinv3rse
OP-4Warez/0day-warezon Rizon
Male

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 312
Loc: Denver, CO
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: shneck]
    #5516292 - 04/14/06 02:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shneck said:
Man, don't wait, start psychedelics right here and right now - just as you do with preliminary buddhist practices, there's no time left to loose, life is fragile and you MUST NOT postpone this until next Monday/summer/year/etc.
I'm over 40 myself now and your story sounds very familiar except that I was lucky to get acquainted with psychedelics earlier than you. They really changed my life completely, once and for all. In fact, they triggered my interest in Eastern philosophy, Buddhism, shamanism as well as in Western psychology, psychiatry, chemistry, botanics, you name it.
It seems to be vice versa in your case but it just proves there are numerous ways leading to one destination. Middle age crisis is a common thing, it's time you re-evaluate your life priorities and start thinking about the purpose of life and the mystery of death. Psychedelics are a divine gift that may help in sorting the things out, especially when combined with other mind-expanding practices and teachings.
If I were you I would forget about all this "responsibility" crap, it's just one of the tricks ego plays with us to keep us from hurting it, along with persuading us we need to look better, be more successful to fit better into the framework of the social egregor. You will not love your wife and kids less if you try shrooms, LSD or mesc, in fact, you'll love them MORE; you won't lose your touch with the world but will rejuvenile it instead, and you will not become more confused but will acquire clarity and piece of mind so needed.
Guess, you know it all yourself and can put it better than me, just let me finish with a close citing of Terence McKenna who said once that one who has never tried psychedelic experience can be compared to one who has never tried sex in his life. And I'd say it may even be an underestimation.

Peace.




:congrats: :congrats: :congrats:


--------------------
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or
insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."

"Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Five years later? Six? It seems like a lifetime, or at least a main era - -the kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run, but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant."

Hunter S. Thompson.


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Offlinemushiemountain
i am the sacredone
Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 1,616
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: inv3rse]
    #5516372 - 04/14/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

^ i agree. fucking bravo.


--------------------
I Ain't No Fool. Mama Didn't Raise No Fool.
----------primussucks


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Offlinedoufus
Stranger
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 59
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: shneck]
    #5516950 - 04/14/06 07:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks people. This has always been a great forum. Unlike most
internet sites that quickly degenerate into BS and ego, people here take stuff seriously and really offer valuable insights.

Yeah i have to do this stuff soon. But i've had a very strong suspicion
that once i do, i may no longer be compatible with the life i have. Most drugs of any kind have a big effect on me and i know that the mindset i had before this latest flourish of ego was absolutely ripe for ego obliteration. Trouble is my family would find it difficult to
accept dad walking in one monday reborn into something very different.
And our life is very conventional with kids groomed for careers etc.
We're "nice". But something was definitely about to breakthrough
there for a while until boss ego reared up and said "no fuckin way!".

Sitting and waiting for death or running as hard as i can, grasping
experience and any distraction along the way. That's the question.


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OfflineTadpole
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Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 184
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: doufus]
    #5517546 - 04/14/06 11:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Hey Doufus,

Although my life situation is completely different from yours, I can very much relate to where you're at. You start walking the Path, then boss ego, as you put it, comes and make everything complicated and quickly make you really confused about what you want and where you want to go. What has really happened here? What changed everything all of a sudden when "the boss" arrived? This happened: desire entered the picture, and it promised you delight, happiness, satisfaction and contentment. There are two alternatives:

First alternative, go for it! Live life to the max! Fuck the sweet young girl at work. Take advantage of all the beautiful fruits life have to offer. This is running after your desires. Ask yourself, where is it going to get you? Once you did this or got that or went there, then what? The next desire shows up, and you keep going, always trying to fulfill the next desire. Is this the way to peace, the way to freedom?

The other alternative is knowing and accepting what is true. Your desires are simply not going to get you where you want to be. You said you're "not sure if you want to be a semi-monk, smiling in ego abandon at every leaf in the breeze". Well, then keep fooling yourself, keep running around in the wheel of desire, keep thinking "once I get this, then I'll be happy", till the day you die. The choice is yours, but beware and don't let your conditioning fool you.

Always remember, there is a fine line between what one wants to be true and what is true. Contemplating with wisdom is the way to know what's what. To do so one has to keep the  five hindrances in mind.


I would also like to add this: don't attach too much importance to the psychedelic experience. Definitely seek it out, like everything else it will be your teacher, but don't expect it to fix your problems. You can only do that yourself. In the words of Jed McKenna:

"Allegiance to any spiritual teaching or teacher- any outside authority- is the most treacherous beast in the jungle. The first thing we want to do when we begin our journey is to find the companionship and validity that comes with an established group, and in so doing we effectively end the journey before it begins."

Jed McKenna - "Spiritual Enlighenment: The Damnedest Thing."


I wish you a nice journey. Step wisely. :crazy2:


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Offlinedoufus
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Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 59
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: Tadpole]
    #5517820 - 04/15/06 01:16 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks Tadpole,

I have to admit that nothing blew me away as much as my dream.
Nothing has really been comparable to that time of total perfection.

It's so easy to get caught up in everyday rituals, to entertain
the fear that if you don't do everything "right" then something
or somebody will suffer. 30 years of habits and rituals are hard
to dispense with. Yep, the 5 hindrances certainly apply.

Happiness is just around THAT corner (which is somehow different
from the corner i just came around- and i thought it was just
around that one too).

Thanks for helping out people.


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OfflineAldous
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Registered: 10/19/99
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Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: doufus]
    #5518063 - 04/15/06 05:49 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

doufus said:
But i've had a very strong suspicion that once i do, i may no longer be compatible with the life i have.


Well then, that will be a great impetus for change. It doesn't mean that you'll somehow find yourself trapped in your current life, it means you'll finally have the will and power to change it as is best for you, and to finally know which way to go.
Also, if you have the suspicion you may not fit into your current life anymore (or rather, your current life won't fit you anymore), this probably means you already know it, but are hiding away from that realization, for it may bring about drastic consequences (which are in order anyway, but take strength and some courage). Trust your suspicion, but don't let it make you afraid.

Quote:

Trouble is my family would find it difficult to accept dad walking in one monday reborn into something very different.


I don't see why you would turn into "something" that different. What you fear happened to me. I have a family etc., and I went through a series of ayahuasca sessions that profoundly changed me. But not into someone different, rather it made me fully express and realize the one I already was, just hiding behind ego traps, inhibitions and unacknowledged issues. So change you will, but it will only bring you closer to the one you really are or are supposed to be.
It's perfectly compatible with family and 'responsibilities'. It's even mostly for them, and not in spite of them, that you should go ahead with it.
Just do it wisely and carefully, but your posts indicate that should be no problem.

Have a nice journey.


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Offlineilovemushies
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Registered: 04/11/06
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Loc: New Jersey
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: doufus]
    #5518074 - 04/15/06 06:01 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

egad


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Offlinedoufus
Stranger
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 59
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: Aldous]
    #5518473 - 04/15/06 10:12 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I appreciate everything people have suggested here and the insights they've offered. Very valuable. But i'm gonna delay the entheogen
thing for a while and concentrate on more meditative practices for
now. My daughter is finishing school and after more thought, i feel
that she needs a little more stability/predictability for the moment.
I have a real fear that a "different" me isn't something she needs
right now. I don't feel i have the right to shift her focus. Basically if i walk in one day, chuck my job and suddenly go mildly counterculture, i don't think that will help much. I know i sound vanilla conformist, but my approach has always been to offer my kids a shot at the mainstream from where they can be whatever they want. Am i doing the right thing? Who knows, i'm just playing probabilities. Plenty of straight kids and hippy kids go off the rails. But for whatever it's worth, i want my kids to have the material basics-
job, opportunities, health care, place of their own. They're not
guarantees to happiness, but theyn can form a material foundation
to more easily develop themselves- i hope. OK, slay me for my conditioning....


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: Caught between the Inner and Outer Journeys [Re: doufus]
    #5518555 - 04/15/06 10:44 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Your courage and dedication to your family is admirable.

Let's face it, you live the good life. Forget the guilt about being boring. We're all boring; the media and history are written to make us think that some of us are not.

Seek the entheogens when the time is right, but do seek them. You will change, but fortunately/unfortunately that change will come from incorporating the insight of entheogens into your life, not by being screwed over by the countercultural whims that drugs might give you. As someone said above, most likely psychedelics will give you more distance yet more appreciation for your family.

Good luck Happy Easter/Holiday :laugh:


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