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Offlinekotik
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are your thoughts / words really yours?
    #5514764 - 04/14/06 03:55 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

just trying to take a new look here... ive been reading lots of books over the past couple years, lots of documentaries, lots of information in general.  Now, I am starting to notice that I begin to take on the same ideas / theories as the ones I am presented with in the aforementioned mediums.

I am also beginning to wonder how many of my conclusions are really my own, and how many only exist because of the things i've read and agreed with.  Not I know that no one has a truly "original" thought in their entire lives, we are all doomed to a similar experience, but really, is ANYTHING i ever say / think my own?  Or is it just a hybrid of theories / opinions floating around in my unconcious, much like a dream.  Only this is a "fact dream."

So the next time you make a statement about politics, think to yourself how much of your opinions are really yours, and how many are the words of other people, only filtered back through your own belief system?

The next time someone asks you about religion, wonder how much of your opinions actually came from those who raised you, etc.  After a while, you may come to the same point as me:  Have I ever had my own thoughts  / opinions, or have i just been slipped info, and then doomed to repeat it until I disagree?  :confused:

:thumbup:


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: kotik]
    #5514800 - 04/14/06 04:58 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

well, is your body really yours?


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5514980 - 04/14/06 07:42 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A long while back, I was discussing with a friend some ideas that I held to be true at the time, concerning this or that, some psychadelic view of reality or something.

My friend told me that the only reason I hold those views is because I listen to TOOL, who proposes similar views. :wtf:

I told him that perhaps the reason I listen to TOOL is because their view resonates with my own. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinekotik
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5515093 - 04/14/06 08:27 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

is my body really mine.. lets get past the profoundness of the statement. I'd really like to debate the ownership of ideas / thoughts, and this is related.

Aside from cloning, I would say that it's more reasonable to assume our bodies are more unique than thoughts and ideas. A body is always a mix of 2 very different other bodies. Thoughts and ideas on the otherhand seem to represent the same concepts, over and over.

The Tool analogy was perfect. For example, lets say after 50 years of your life, you decide to write a theory, or some sort of paper regarding your personal beliefs and ideas. Of course all of the information you took in until that point would have a heavy impact, but I am interested in knowing where the line is drawn, between recycling information / opinions, and forming your own.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: kotik]
    #5515333 - 04/14/06 09:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

No, they belong to everyone who ever was and ever will be.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: kotik]
    #5515353 - 04/14/06 09:55 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

sounds like the paradox of cause and effect.
are you the effect of someone elses actions? are you at the same time the cause?
or of your own.
duality is a bitch.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: kotik]
    #5515824 - 04/14/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

This is an interesting hypothesis. I would say a simple experiment would be to brainstorm opinions you have about the stuff you've learned from documentaries and information in general. Then ponder those opinions, and form other alternative views. It is my prediction that you will be able to come up with alternative ideas that you have not learned in the past.

I'll make up a new word: shugree. Shugree describes the discontinuity between your field of vision, which is one wide oval that covers most of the area of your face, and the reality that you perceive light at two tiny points on your face.

That is a new thought. I did not learn about shugree, and nobody in my life has ever asked me why I see one huge picture instead of two eyeball sized pictures.


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Namaste


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: kotik]
    #5515946 - 04/14/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)



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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5515966 - 04/14/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

on nm it's on topic.

what is it saying though?


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Namaste


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5515973 - 04/14/06 01:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RedNucleus said:
on nm it's on topic.

what is it saying though?



It's saying that we are products of our environment.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5515981 - 04/14/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Oh yeah derr, I'm a little slow today.


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Namaste


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5516009 - 04/14/06 01:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Godman, lol


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5516075 - 04/14/06 01:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I told him that perhaps the reason I listen to TOOL is because their view resonates with my own.




resonance is all


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5516082 - 04/14/06 01:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Embrace this moment. Remember we are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.


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Namaste


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: kotik]
    #5516093 - 04/14/06 01:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I tend to read authors whose views I agree with, or at least appreciate.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5516170 - 04/14/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Sometimes I read crazy christian stuff for fun. Ted Jesus Christ God shares nobody's views, methinks.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5516349 - 04/14/06 03:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

a simple experiment would be to brainstorm opinions you have about ... information in general. Then ponder those opinions, and form other alternative views. It is my prediction that you will be able to come up with alternative ideas that you have not learned in the past.




not a bad idea. however at the same time, it would be pointless. a control experiment would be to watch unbiased documentaries on a topic, then draw opinions about that subject. However, I find it (dare I say:) impossible to form an opinion from pure facts, unless you have already heard / read an opinion about it from somewhere else, or unless you relate the topic to something else that you have an opinion about. and in that case, the opinion you related to was probably copied from another opinion too.

or perhaps i make simple concepts complex for no reason.

Quote:

I'll make up a new word... That is a new thought. I did not learn about shugree




cute, but i wouldnt count a new word. i really mean a strong theory or opinion you may have, or something along those lines.

Quote:

I tend to read authors whose views I agree with, or at least appreciate.




exactly what i'm talking about. was there a certain point when you chose a "side?" could you see if you had gone the other route? I guess duality does play a factor here, and I was not giving it much credit because its like calculating ether into a cosmic equation (a scientific one mind you).


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: kotik]
    #5516367 - 04/14/06 03:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"..our mind, your personality!"
-Unknown :P


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: kotik]
    #5516412 - 04/14/06 03:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yeah. I guess the only way to know for sure is because at the dawn of man these ideas didnt exist. They were therefore created as new ideas some time


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Namaste


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: are your thoughts / words really yours? [Re: kotik]
    #5520185 - 04/16/06 02:21 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I am also beginning to wonder how many of my conclusions are really my own, and how many only exist because of the things i've read and agreed with.




I feel your confusion. This is something I have experienced, and continue to experience to a degree.I am almost constantly doing something that involves reading, or talking about what i've read. I've read so much crap on the Internet, that if represented in paper form, could probably fill small room. And of course there are Books, stories from other people, and TV.

Ignore the pangs of confusion in needing to own something 'informational'. Ideas and concepts aren't things that can be put into bottles and owned. If it's in your brain, it's yours. Worrying about its point of origin will only cause you distress. It's just one of the many symptoms involved in merging with a collective of information.

Quote:


The Tool analogy was perfect. For example, lets say after 50 years of your life, you decide to write a theory, or some sort of paper regarding your personal beliefs and ideas. Of course all of the information you took in until that point would have a heavy impact, but I am interested in knowing where the line is drawn, between recycling information / opinions, and forming your own.





There is no hard fast line, i'm afraid. If a person wants to excell in his field, for instance, then the person has to stand on the shoulders of giants and build from there. First you Memorize, then you Improvise, then you Create.

Here's a route I'm try to take:

*Memorize/Collect what you find interesting.
*Improvise on the items you have collected/memorized
*Merge them into a coherent whole, and you will Create an idea that you find interesting.

And many many others will probably find it interesting too.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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