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OfflineSnaggletooth
Stranger in a Strange Land
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Registered: 10/24/05
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Why we don't exist
    #5512135 - 04/13/06 12:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

:stoned:

It is known that there is an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the product of a deranged imagination.



:bongload:


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Atheist Chat


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Offlinehoopershroomer
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Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 1,704
Loc: WA
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Re: Why we don't exist [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5512206 - 04/13/06 12:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i've heard the same theory befor. i've also heard something very fascinating similar to this topic.
its said that space/universe is infinite, and that it goes on and on forever. well that would mean if something is infinite then whatever is has no location. basically, something that has no location cannot exist, and if the earth doesnt have a specific location, then we all live in a complete dream that only lasts so long....wierd huh? man it makes me think so much about wat the hell we are here for, what is the purpose of...everything?


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"Life lived in the absence of the psychedelic experience that primordial shamanism is based on is life trivialized, life denied, life enslaved to the ego."

"You teach the world how to treat you, by showing the world how you treat yourself."

A well developed sense of humor is far superior to any religion"

"Everything you could want and could be, you already have and are."

:peace: & :heart:


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
Male

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5512214 - 04/13/06 12:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

There aren't an infinite number of worlds. Simple as that.


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Offlinejcdangerously
I'll Cut You

Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 422
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5512226 - 04/13/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

'Does Big Brother exist?'

'Of course he exists. The Party exists. Big Brother is the embodiment of the Party.'

'Does he exist in the same way as I exist?

'You do not exist,' said O'Brien.

George Orwell- "1984"


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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Registered: 04/06/04
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Re: Why we don't exist [Re: jcdangerously]
    #5512233 - 04/13/06 12:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That is one of the most stupid things I've ever had the displeasure of reading.


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Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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Offlinejcdangerously
I'll Cut You

Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 422
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #5512243 - 04/13/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

That is one of the most stupid things I've ever had the displeasure of reading.




Sounds like you don't understand what Orwell was getting at there. Why don't you explain what you mean?


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Invisiblegiz
daydreamer
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Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
Loc: EU
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5512244 - 04/13/06 12:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
There aren't an infinite number of worlds. Simple as that.




amen


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
f n o r d
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Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 17,192
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5512456 - 04/13/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
There aren't an infinite number of worlds. Simple as that.




How do you know this?


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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.


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Invisiblegiz
daydreamer
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Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
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Re: Why we don't exist [Re: Penguarky Tunguin]
    #5512461 - 04/13/06 02:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

if you understand math you can understand god a good friend of mine keeps telling.

i do belive in math, and by doing so i cannot accept that there is infinite numbers of worlds


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
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Registered: 08/06/03
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Loc: British Columbia
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: Penguarky Tunguin]
    #5512483 - 04/13/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

McKennaDMT said:
Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
There aren't an infinite number of worlds. Simple as that.




How do you know this?




Find me a scientist that says otherwise.

It is known that the universe is constantly expanding and therefor it doesn't just 'go on forever'.


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
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Loc: British Columbia
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5512492 - 04/13/06 02:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

so the average population of all the planets in the universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the product of a deranged imagination




And this statement is so absolutely ludacris I'm not even going to comment on it.


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InvisibleDarkcloud
‮tiwkcuFtsilihiN
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Registered: 04/06/03
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Re: Why we don't exist [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5512499 - 04/13/06 02:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well, the original post makes too many assumptions (we don't know how many realms for sure yet), but I would like to clear something up:

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
Quote:

McKennaDMT said:
Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
There aren't an infinite number of worlds. Simple as that.




How do you know this?




Find me a scientist that says otherwise.

It is known that the universe is constantly expanding and therefor it doesn't just 'go on forever'.




"The many-worlds interpretation (or MWI) is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that rejects the non-deterministic and irreversible wavefunction collapse associated with measurement in the Copenhagen interpretation in favor of a description in terms of quantum entanglement and time-reversible evolution of quantum states. The phenomena associated with measurement are explained by decoherence which occurs when states interact with the environment."

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

"In 1957, Hugh Everett III proposed a radical new way of dealing with some of the more perplexing aspects of quantum mechanics. It became known as the Many-Worlds Interpretation.

According to this interpretation, whenever numerous viable possibilities exist, the world splits into many worlds, one world for each different possibility (in this context, the term "worlds" refers to what most people call "universes"). In each of these worlds, everything is identical, except for that one different choice; from that point on, they develop independently, and no communication is possible between them, so the people living in those worlds (and splitting along with them) may have no idea that this is going on.

In this way, the world branches endlessly. What is "the present" to us, lies in the pasts of an uncountably huge number of different futures. Everything that can happen, does, somewhere.

Until Many-Worlds appeared, the generally accepted interpretation of quantum mechanics was (and perhaps still is) the Copenhagen Interpretation. The Copenhagen Interpretation makes a distinction between the observer and the observed; when no one is watching, a system evolves deterministically according to a wave equation, but when someone is watching, the wavefunction of the system "collapses" to the observed state, which is why the act of observing changes the system. The Copenhagen Interpretation gives the observer special status, not accorded to any other object in quantum theory, and cannot explain the observer itself, while Many-Worlds models the entire observer-observee system."

Source:
http://www.station1.net/DouglasJones/many.htm

It's an interpretation, but scientists have been considering it for many years.


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:poison: :poison: :poison:


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OfflinefreshlyPLUMP
Toke the Smoke
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Registered: 02/01/06
Posts: 573
Loc: My Shelter of Dark Tranqu...
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5512502 - 04/13/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I exist


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I bring myself down a level to make you feel better about yourself!


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OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5512513 - 04/13/06 02:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

the possobility of anything is 1/infinity. so it does exsist already in the sense of it exsisting as what it is. a thought of exsistence. anyone see what im saying. but the idea of there definatley being infinite worlds is just a theory and nothing more until proven. and you can prove infinity because it keeps going on and on. unless there is no infinity and everything has already happened. who knows. we don't.

the best thing to do is make the world a better place rather than try and understand something only god could.


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Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
Male

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: Darkcloud]
    #5512520 - 04/13/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You can make almost any statement about anything and have a group of gullible idiots follow it, so long as it can't be proven or disproven.

That's exactly what that is.


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OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5512525 - 04/13/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

toilet said it best.


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Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


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InvisibleDarkcloud
‮tiwkcuFtsilihiN
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Registered: 04/06/03
Posts: 1,331
Loc: USA
Re: Why we don't exist [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5512538 - 04/13/06 02:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well, considering MWI is one of the main interpretations of QM, and thousands of quantum physicists believe in it, I would say that they know better than you and I.

Although, the original post is too far from what the physicists are talking about. I'm just correcting what you said.


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:poison: :poison: :poison:


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
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Registered: 08/06/03
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Re: Why we don't exist [Re: Darkcloud]
    #5512555 - 04/13/06 02:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Darkcloud said:
Well, considering MWI is one of the main interpretations of QM, and thousands of quantum physicists believe in it, I would say that they know better than you and I.

Although, the original post is too far from what the physicists are talking about. I'm just correcting what you said.





They can believe in whatever the hell they want. That doesn't make it so. Thousands believe in it? Where did you come up with that number? Because if you believe in that you might as well believe in fairies and that Star Wars actually took place in an area far far away.

Take a look at this: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/9703/9703089.pdf


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InvisibleDarkcloud
‮tiwkcuFtsilihiN
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Registered: 04/06/03
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Re: Why we don't exist [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #5512622 - 04/13/06 03:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HeavyToilet said:
Thousands believe in it? Where did you come up with that number?





Try actually reading the article that you posted and you'll see what I mean. Nice google, btw.

Quote:


They can believe in whatever the hell they want. That doesn't make it so.




Kinda like how you believe in that article that you posted. :wink:

I just read 3/4ths through it. The author brings up some good and bad points, but his main arguments are dealing with the fact that it's hard to put these theories into motion, and many factors are left undefined (page 10 is a big one). But hey I didn't say it was perfect, I just said it's an interpretation.

My only beef with your comments above is that you said, to paraphrase: "show me a scientist who actually believes that". And I did. You have no way to refute that. I just find it weird that you invoked science by saying no scientist believes that, and yet MWI has been such a huge theory that it's been in popular science for years. :shrug:


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:poison: :poison: :poison:


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Invisiblepoke smot!
floccinocci floofinator
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Registered: 01/08/03
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Re: Why we don't exist *DELETED* [Re: Darkcloud]
    #5512781 - 04/13/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x



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