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Offlinekotik
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5512864 - 04/13/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I am an engineer and I researched whether recycled plastic transfers heat better than virgin material.




even you must admit that is a far cry from psychokinesis.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: kotik]
    #5512934 - 04/13/06 04:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Of course, but it is very interesting!!! For sure some people would carry out that kind of research especially with all that speculation floating around just to set some things straight. It is a far cry not only from psychokinesis but generally in the way our minds affect matter and not only how our minds can move matter(psychokinesis). If you concentrate hard that when you flip a coin you will get heads and then you flip one million coins, which way would the distribution lie? A very interesting somehow related and well known experiments is Schrodingers Cat Experiment. Is the cat alive or dead? Can we add-on to this experiment the use of our minds to change superposition?


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Offlineleery11
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513440 - 04/13/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Four years ago, Ginandes and Daniel Rosenthal, professor of radiology at the Harvard Medical School, published a report on their study of hypnosis to speed up the mending of broken bones. They recruited 12 people with broken ankles who did not require surgery and who received the usual treatment at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston. In addition, Ginandes hypnotized half of them once a week for 12 weeks, while the other half received only normal treatment. The same doctor applied the casts and other care, and the same radiologists took regular X-rays to monitor how well they healed. A radiologist who evaluated the X-rays did not know which patients underwent hypnosis.

The result stood out like a sore ankle. Those who were hypnotized healed faster than those who were not. Six weeks after the fracture, those in the hypnosis group showed the equivalent of eight and a half weeks of healing.




http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/05.08/01-hypnosis.html

Quote:

At a hospital in Cleveland, children with chronic, intractable pain from cancer are being taught to escape it by visualizing themselves in a relaxed, happy place.

Such studies are producing an evergrowing body of evidence that portends a sea change in the way health-care professionals and patients are viewing the role of the mind in the treatment of illness. Relaxation, hypnosis, and other mind-body approaches have been used in Western medicine for decades by traditional healers. Two things are different today: these approaches are gaining more respect and interest from researchers in major medical institutions; and evidence is mounting that mind-body techniques may actually affect the course of disease itself.




Quote:

Patients taught hypnotic relaxation techniques before surgery required less medication during their procedures, says Elvira Lang, M.D., associate professor of radiology at Harvard Medical School. Of 161 patients in her study undergoing procedures requiring only local sedation, such as kidney drainage and angioplasty, 82 learned relaxation exercises, including closing one's eyes and breathing deeply, focusing on a floating sensation and imagining a safe, comfortable place. While all patients were offered pain and anxiety medication during surgery, 50% of the relaxed subjects requested no drugs at all, compared to just 18% of the other patients.




Your mind, being connected to the body, can exert tremendously influence over healing processes.

part of spiritual development is negating any attachments that would lead to insincere prayers for ferraris and super models and things like that. Can it heal? It's a lot more likely to if your answer ISN'T "no."

So I don't quite understand your motivations for continuing these threads... were the old ones locked? Studies show this and that from time to time, but it is proven that hypnosis and meditation affect health. I don't know what's going on in your head but PRAYER is just a word... there are people that pray sincerely enough to go into transcendent psychedelic states. There are people who spend 15 seconds asking for something. Forget religion.


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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (04/13/06 07:24 PM)

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Offlinekotik
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: leery11]
    #5513564 - 04/13/06 07:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

If you concentrate hard that when you flip a coin you will get heads and then you flip one million coins, which way would the distribution lie?




i don't understand the analogy, and moreso I don't understand how this would have anything to do with mind over matter. maybe i just lost the topic.

Quote:

A very interesting somehow related and well known experiments is Schrodingers Cat Experiment. Is the cat alive or dead?




the cat experiment is better when describing something, when observation actually affects the experiment. or rather, in order to know one thing, you must remain ignorant of another. This is not necessarily the case in mind over matter, or if it is, I am having trouble drawing the same conclusions as you.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: kotik]
    #5513583 - 04/13/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

If you concentrate hard and pray for heads to come and you toss a million coins will the percentage of heads be more than 50%?

A very interesting somehow related and well known experiments is Schrodingers Cat Experiment. Is the cat alive or dead? Can we add-on to this experiment the use of our minds to change superposition?

Can we add-on to this experiment the use of our minds to change superposition?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513631 - 04/13/06 08:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
If you concentrate hard and pray for heads to come and you toss a million coins will the percentage of heads be more than 50%?




Even if it was, does that demonstrate that prayer was effective in manipulating physical reality?

I think not. You could flip a million coins and each time get heads. It's a 50% chance each flip between two options, but that doesn't mean that a million flips will get 50%.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5513650 - 04/13/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

No, mate it's not a 50% chance every time. The second time you throw a coin, the change to get heads again is 25%, the third time is 12.5% and so on...


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513662 - 04/13/06 08:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
No, mate it's not a 50% chance every time. The second time you throw a coin, the change to get heads again is 25%, the third time is 12.5% and so on...




Bullshit! Each flip, its a 50/50 chance.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5513677 - 04/13/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Nope. I don't see how you can not understand it. It is normal. You win the lottary. Next time you think you have the same chances? It is a 50-50 when there is no past. Simple statistics.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513764 - 04/13/06 09:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
Nope. I don't see how you can not understand it. It is normal. You win the lottary. Next time you think you have the same chances? It is a 50-50 when there is no past. Simple statistics.




Do you think the coin and the forces responsible for the action being carried out give a shit what happened in the past? :lol:

Flip a coin, its 50/50%, all the time. Saying that the second time you flip a coin, you only have a 25% chance of getting a heads because you got heads last time, would be the same as putting three tails on the coin and one heads.

Since that isn't what is happening, it is 50/50.

The fact that one has won the lottery before doesn't mean they have less odds of winning next time. Their odds of winning next time are determined by whether or not they pick the right numbers.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5513774 - 04/13/06 09:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Mate, you clearly don't have a single clue about statistics so I will not argue with you. Read a book, search the internet I don't know what else to say.


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513778 - 04/13/06 09:08 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You HAVE to be a puppet. No person can actually be as dumb as you are acting.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513784 - 04/13/06 09:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
Mate, you clearly don't have a single clue about statistics so I will not argue with you. Read a book, search the internet I don't know what else to say.




Statistics don't mean shit. Flip a coin, you will either get heads or tails. 50/50 chance of either side being chosen. Saying that there is only a 25% chance of getting heads is the same as stating that there are three more tails sides on a coin than heads. :wtf:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5513807 - 04/13/06 09:16 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Listen, it is very simple. You are wrong. You have just flipped a coin for 5 times and you get heads. The 6th time you think you got 50-50 chances? No. Look, it's all too easy to wright in an agressive way when you don't understand something but please at least search the internet if you are bored to read a book about statistics or fail to understand that flipping a coin 100 times and get all heads does not have the same possibilities to happen with fliping a coin once and get heads.


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513844 - 04/13/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Here, if you don't want to believe me,

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/coinflip.htm

this is the simplest I could find...


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513848 - 04/13/06 09:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Does the coin magically transform after so many flips so that there are more of one side than another?

No? I thought not. Theoretical likelihood does not dismiss the fact that there are only two sides of a coin, only one outcome of a flip, and, thus, each side of the coin has a 50% chance of coming up on top.

Simple, easy.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5513859 - 04/13/06 09:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

That link pertains to tossing five coins at once. D'oh!

Sure, one could still toss the same coin five times, but the point, which the link confirms, is that each toss has a 50/50% chance. The fact that they are multiplying 1/2 should indicate that, eh? :rolleyes:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5513876 - 04/13/06 09:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The only thing that is simple is the fact that you don't want to understand it.

I will make one final attempt explaining it.

You toss 3 coins. What are the possible outcomes?

Heads-Heads-Heads
Heads-Heads-Tails
Tails-Tails-Tails
Tails-Tails-Heads

So they are all heads, all tails, 2 of them heads and one tails or 2 of them tails and one heads.

These are 4 possible outcomes, 4 possibilities.

Your selection is all heads.

1 possibility out of 4.

1/4 => 25%


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513884 - 04/13/06 09:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Lol, at once, no it doesn't matter. I explained it to you in detail with my reply above. If you still can't get it you most probably don't want to.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5514047 - 04/13/06 10:16 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Each time someone flips a coin, there are how many sides to the coin?

How many possible outcomes?

possible outcomes / sides of coin

Can you do the math?

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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