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OfflineTemptress
Butterfly
Female

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
why investigate prayer in the first place?
    #5510617 - 04/12/06 11:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

why not investigate the throwing of chicken bones, reading coffee grounds or any of an infinite number of other possible 'reality-altering' rituals?

normally, direct observation precedes a scientific investigation. not so with this sort of silliness.


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i have less ego than you do!


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Temptress]
    #5510624 - 04/12/06 11:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Lady, yer just lucky I don't yet have a lock of yer hair.


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Offlinejcdangerously
I'll Cut You

Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 422
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Temptress]
    #5510636 - 04/12/06 11:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

why investigate prayer in the first place?




For the same reason you posed this question. It gives people something to talk about. Not that it wouldn't be time better spent elsewhere.


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OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Temptress]
    #5510667 - 04/12/06 11:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It's called research that may lead to some kind of evolution, better understanding of our world and probably solution of some problems.


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OfflineTemptress
Butterfly
Female

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5510686 - 04/12/06 11:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

for there to be research; first a phenomenon must be observed - comprende?


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i have less ego than you do!


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5510690 - 04/12/06 11:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

because many people in our society people pray, duh.


Edited by Deviate (04/12/06 11:56 PM)


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OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Temptress]
    #5510723 - 04/13/06 12:03 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think I like your tone. Are we fighting here? I am an engineer and I researched whether recycled plastic transfers heat better than virgin material. We didn't know what the answer was but this is what research is for. You don't have to have a phenomenon, it would then be called analysis. You could research on the possibility of one more planet in our solar system. And you'd be right. Travel in the past and tell the people about electricity. Did they knew about it? Anyway I will not continue because I think that you are just playing with words anyway....


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: jcdangerously]
    #5510727 - 04/13/06 12:04 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

say you want to get into line, to get into traffic,
you adjust your rhythm and speed
you shake and dance appropriately.

you blend in, and you proceed.

say you want to learn a new physical manouver, like heelys or rollerblades, you synch up somehow, hard to explain, it is something like rhythms repetition, excercise, you find the "balance point" - a certain target that was invisible.

what I am getting at is that we approximate the "goal" and approach the "goal" by proxy.

we "attain" what was ungrasped, by these proxy methods, or approximating, attuning, and getting in synch.

this includes prayer,

what should be investigated is the order and the process:
prayer is a private synchronization with personal motives towards some goals.
a personal proxy - it should be investigated, so that it is not taken for the goal itself,
it should be analysed so that it may function as attunement rather than as the tune.

investigate to put error aside.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineTemptress
Butterfly
Female

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5510749 - 04/13/06 12:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

no, I am not just playing with words - where is the point of origin on which prayer was first based? someone made something up and others took up the practice, but there remains no basis.

as i asked earlier, why NOT investigate smearing spaghetti sauce on walls as a way to alter reality? why would that 'research' be less valid?

should we also investigate three long hops on the right foot vs. four short hops on the left in inducing rain? studies would certainly favor one method over the other.

there is no end to such ridiculous research.


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i have less ego than you do!


Edited by Temptress (04/13/06 12:25 AM)


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OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Temptress]
    #5510772 - 04/13/06 12:20 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

So you think the possibilities of prayer working are the same with the possibilities of altering reality by smearing spaghetti on the wall?


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Temptress]
    #5510798 - 04/13/06 12:30 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Temptress said:
no, I am not just playing with words - where is the point of origin on which prayer was first based? someone made something up and others took up the practice, but there remains no basis.

as i asked earlier, why NOT investigate smearing spaghetti sauce on walls as a way to alter reality? why would that 'research' be less valid?

shoul we also investigate three long hops on the right foot vs. four short hops on the left in inducing rain? studies would certainly favor one method over the other.

there is no end to such ridiculous research.




as i said, it makes slightly more sense to investigate prayer because it is a common practise on planet earth. for example at one time doctors believed leeching cured disease (who knows why thought this). are you saying it would make as little sense to do a study on leeching, or any other ancient medical practise as it would to do a study on spagetti sauce smearing?

there is no end to such ridiculous research.

note the exaggeration. we can choose to only invesitgate rituals which are extremely widespread. there is no need to begin the investigation with smearing spagetti sauce on the walls for instance, because no one does that. what if studies did show a positive affect from prayer? what then?


Edited by Deviate (04/13/06 12:32 AM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5510805 - 04/13/06 12:32 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

So you think the possibilities of prayer working are the same with the possibilities of altering reality by smearing spaghetti on the wall?

That's what I think.

Spaghetti Sauce appeals to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, while Prayer appeals to God. Both have an equal chance of working and for the same reasons.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Diploid]
    #5510811 - 04/13/06 12:35 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

No, I don't agree. Prayer does not appeal to god, this is only the outer vail. The point is whether you can use your mind to change matter. And this is a very important field to research.


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OfflineTemptress
Butterfly
Female

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Deviate]
    #5510818 - 04/13/06 12:37 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

we can choose to only invesitgate rituals which are extremely widespread. there is no need to begin the investigation with smearing spagetti on the walls for instance, because no one does that.




so it makes less sense because fewer people do it and more sense if large numbers of ignorant people do something that denies the proven law of cause and effect?

alrighty then. let's investigate why garlic is so efficacious in keeping vampires away.  :rolleyes:


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i have less ego than you do!


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Temptress]
    #5510844 - 04/13/06 12:51 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Temptress said:
Quote:

we can choose to only invesitgate rituals which are extremely widespread. there is no need to begin the investigation with smearing spagetti on the walls for instance, because no one does that.




so it makes less sense because fewer people do it and more sense if large numbers of ignorant people do something that denies the proven law of cause and effect?





if everyone is taking LSD because they believe it will cure their psycholocal problems, it would make more sense to investigate the question of whether LSD is indeed useful for that purpose than to investigate whether skipping stones while singing the national anthem cures psychological problems. since large numbers of people are going to do it anyway (take LSD) , any research pertaining to it has more relevence than research on the same topic pertaining to something which no one does that has the same amount of evidence reguarding its ability to cure. also, you ignored my question for the 4th straight time. what if the study on prayer had found results as others have? what then?


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OfflineTemptress
Butterfly
Female

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Deviate]
    #5510900 - 04/13/06 01:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

to investigate whether skipping stones while singing the national anthem cures psychological problems




you may be onto something there. have u thought about applying for a grant?


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i have less ego than you do!


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OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Temptress]
    #5511177 - 04/13/06 05:36 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Because you don't know something about it's causality, you won't investigate it ?

What's that ? Just silly ignorance ?

If it will help you smearing spaghetti sauce on the walls, and the walls are your 'property', then just do it. Perhaps you will attract the FSM out of its parallel universe. Don't forget the 17 olives.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineTemptress
Butterfly
Female

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5511910 - 04/13/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Don't forget the 17 olives.




which makes as much sense as bowing ones head, kneeling and making the sign of the cross and whispering.

if i am going to pray, i will raise my head and shout: "GIVE ME THE GODDAMN FERRARI ALREADY!" at least one should be bold.


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i have less ego than you do!


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OfflineShroomerious
OO
Male

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Temptress]
    #5512774 - 04/13/06 03:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Are people here just answering for the sake of answering? Who disagrees about how important is the control of matter through our minds?


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OfflineRedNucleus
Causal Observer
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 4,103
Loc: The Seahorse Valley
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: why investigate prayer in the first place? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5512793 - 04/13/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I can't usually control matter using only my mind. But I think I have to give my scientology practitioners more money to do more auditing first.


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Namaste


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Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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