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Offlinebutane
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Registered: 04/02/06
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DIPT to 4-HO-DIPT using mushrooms!
    #5509682 - 04/12/06 08:18 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

From the TiHKAL entry on 4-HO-DET:

Quote:

Some fascinating studies have been done in Germany where the metabolically active mycelium of some Psilocybe species have been administered diethyltryptamine as a potential diet component. Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists. You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature. This is the title drug of this commentary. What a beautiful burr to thrust into the natural versus synthetic controversy. If a plant (a mushroom mycelium in this case) is given a man-made chemical, and this plant converts it, using its natural capabilities, into a product that had never before been known in nature, is that product natural? What is natural? This is the stuff of many long and pointless essays.




So, we can deduce that if we were to mix in DIPT, a relatively worthless tryptamine, with the mushroom substrate, our first flush or two would contain 4-HO-DIPT, a much more interesting hallucinogen.

DIPT can be acquired online from questionable vendors based out of Hong Kong. Has anyone tried this? This would be fascinating!!

Edit: more theories

Another quote from TiHKAL:

Quote:

DOSAGE : unknown

DURATION : unknown

QUALITATIVE COMMENTS : (with 20 mg, orally) "Possible threshold, nothing more."

EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY : Here is another case where there just aren't enough observations to determine at what level the activity will be seen, or what form it will take. The track record is pretty well established with the oxygen-free analogue DPT, and it would be hard to imagine a loss of potency by incorporating the "psilocin signature", the 4-hydroxy group. This threshold suggests something is nearby. It is a shame that the compound is so difficult to make.




We could use the aforementioned process with mushrooms to convert DPT, which is easily acquired from these vendors as well (for incredibly cheap), to create this otherwise extremely difficult chemical, with relative ease. I wonder if anyone has ever synthesized this chemical outside of Shulgin in writing TiHKAL?


--------------------
"...but by and large it was a simple intoxication with most things seeming quite hilarious. The intoxication was also quite extreme."

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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: DIPT to 4-HO-DIPT using mushrooms! [Re: butane]
    #5511089 - 04/13/06 04:03 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

:laugh:

Upon reading this post i HAD to look at your post count. Yup ,makes sense!


Explanation for the above : No im not being ironic here ,but your low postcount is propably a very good explanation for this thread. See,reading Tihkal one stumbles upon this amazing gem of 4-hydroxylation of tryptamines and ,what a discovery! One could put X tryptamine and receive a 4-HO-X tryptamine! Imagine if one puts other tryptamines such as 5-Meo-DMT so one receives the novel and unknown 4-HO-5-Meo-DMT!

Amazing! Yes!

But ,also,discussed to death! The search engine will provide you with all you need to know about this procedure. Also look at the bottom of this thread ,at the "Related Threads" titles and you will find about 5-6 threads dealing exactly  with what you mention. Experiments have been carried out in the shroomery but from what i saw were inconclusive...Maybe more effort was needed in the methodology and  amount of tryptamine-to be-substituted utilized.

So,Amazing find,but almost a "classic" for the Advanced section.

(For laughs: you will soon see tyhat every subforum has its own classics..The supplementation with DMT/tryptamines is a Advanced classic,on the Entheogenic experience you will find the "i took shrooms today can i take em tommorow" classic,and so on so forth,and on the spirituality and such you will find the classic nes of "are psychedelics more than drugs? A battle of spirituality purists and..recreationalusers4lyfe" .You will learn to enjoy it after a bit! )

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Invisiblegiz
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Registered: 02/08/06
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Loc: EU
Re: DIPT to 4-HO-DIPT using mushrooms! [Re: Psiloman]
    #5511095 - 04/13/06 04:17 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

well the price for DiPT and 4-HO DiPT was almost the same at my chem supplier so i dont see the point. 4-HO DPT on the other hand is most intresting. but if you put 5 grams DPT in the substrate (wich will cost you a bbnch of money) how do you knoe how much 4-ho DPT it would yield. Maybe you get 3 flushes with mushrooms containing trace amounts of 4-HO DPT. maybe you get one single mushroom making 200mg 4-ho DPT (wich effects are unknown,, it could even be fatal(. Has anyone looked into this aspect of this tek? I would think that this requires advenced extraction methods of the mushrooms so you have some idea how much 4-HO DPT you are dealing with .


Edited by giz (04/14/06 05:18 AM)

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Offlineradio943dmt
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Re: DIPT to 4-HO-DIPT using mushrooms! [Re: giz]
    #5543107 - 04/22/06 02:52 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=232955

^^ Check that thread out, yo' mang :smile:

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Invisiblegiz
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Re: DIPT to 4-HO-DIPT using mushrooms! [Re: radio943dmt]
    #5543220 - 04/22/06 06:31 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

that link to bluelight was very intresting, thanks. I have been playing on and off about trying to grow mushrooms with DET. I have the chemical allready, i also have DPT but all other RCs I have is either 5-meo . 4-aco whatever. I was thinking about making 5 pf jars with perhaps 30-50mg pr jar. One concern comes to mind and its heating this chemicals in the pressure cooker. I was wondering about disolving the DET in distilled water first and use this solution to make syringes. I dont see how I can evenly distrube 50mg of a chemical in the substrate anyways.

So if there has been talk about this method on this board for some time how many has tried. any succsess stories here? I would love to see growlogs, trip reports and more indepth debate on this subject.

Quote:

I'd imagine that it would reduce/halt synthesis of psilocin/psilocybin as the DET added to the culture would be competing with any DMT synthesized by the fungus to be a substrate for the hydroxylase enzyme. The concn of DET added in this way is going to be many times that of DMT formed as part of the biosynthetic pathway, so (according to the principals of enzyme kinetics) is going to 'take up' much more of the hydroxylase enzyme.





Does this mean, in simple terms, that if I put enough DET in the substrate that the production of psilcybine stops and that my mushrooms only have 4-HO DET. And does that also means that if I dont use enough DET in the substrate psilocin will compete with the DET and I might not get any 4-HO DET? Or a combination of both?

Edited by giz (04/22/06 06:47 AM)

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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: DIPT to 4-HO-DIPT using mushrooms! [Re: giz]
    #5543251 - 04/22/06 07:20 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Some points to consider ,on the top of my head:

1)How many mg's of new product will there be per dried gram of fungus if we take for granded (theoretically) that 100% of the given tryptamine is absorbed by mycelium,100% converted to the new product and dispersed evenly in the accumulated final dried quantity? Would one be able to detect it with a bioassay?

2)What happenes to question 1 if we take into account that 100% absorption of the tryptamine by the fungus and a 100% conversion are not realistic percentages for biological systems?

Consider the above...

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Invisiblegiz
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Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
Loc: EU
Re: DIPT to 4-HO-DIPT using mushrooms! [Re: Psiloman]
    #5543261 - 04/22/06 07:29 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i quote from the bluelight thread


Addition of DET Gartz study (Oct. 198
http://www.geocities.com/radio879z/psilocybebio.pdf

In that study i linked to above (Oct. Gartz study) they added DET (also talks about adding NMT resulting in more baeocystin), got mushrooms with as much as around 3.3% of the dry weight of 4-HO-DET out (same percent as adding Tryptamine HCl), both studies show a chart with 5 flushes and similar % numbers.

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Invisiblethisjunk4u
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Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 11
Loc: Some Where
Re: DIPT to 4-HO-DIPT using mushrooms! [Re: butane]
    #5575508 - 04/30/06 09:43 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

DIPT is not worthless!! A high dose will have you listening to robot voices, the clouds all have uniform spikes surrounding the edge, your voice is 10X lower, the phone sounds underwater, your tripping your balls off for hours! trust me.
but it is physically a lot to handle, its not the most comfortable feeling but its not useless, just so that is known out there.

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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Registered: 07/12/05
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Re: DIPT to 4-HO-DIPT using mushrooms! [Re: thisjunk4u]
    #5931671 - 08/04/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think it would be interesting to have an environment where you would colonize about a cake's worth of mycelium, but then when you birthed the mushrooms first you would use a sort of 'funneling casing' which contains all of your desired 'to be converted substance'. It seems to me the large amount of matter transport to the mushroom would force much of the substance into it, even if it did not convert it entirely.



Maybe a more viable way of concentrating psilocybin than anything else.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

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