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InvisibleDiploidM
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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God
    #5505296 - 04/11/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Leviticus 12:3

On the eighth day, the child's foreskin shall be circumcised. :whoa:

The penalty of non-observance is 'karet': exclusion from the kingdom of God.

If you are male and still have the unabridged version, better get with it before you piss Him off. Or is this a metaphor too?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineleery11
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Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Diploid]
    #5505351 - 04/11/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I do not support circumcision. :frown:

There is also a contradiction which states that circmucision is irrelevant for salvation.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Posts: 19,274
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: leery11]
    #5505373 - 04/11/06 08:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well, seeing as how there's some confusion, you'd better get snipped just in case. You wouldn't wanna get to the pearly gates at the last minute and be turned away, eh?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Diploid]
    #5505458 - 04/11/06 08:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It's just a single sentence in the OT. Each letter is about the size of an ant. Why should that define the Christian experience?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Basilides]
    #5505479 - 04/11/06 08:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

So, you're saying that if God's word is written in small print, it's OK to ignore it? Hmm.. what font were the 10 Commandments written in?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineBasilides
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Posts: 7,059
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Diploid]
    #5505519 - 04/11/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You won't find God's word on ink and paper, or else the ink and paper will precede the word of God.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Diploid]
    #5505546 - 04/11/06 08:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I wouldn't circumcise a son if I had one. They still try to talk non religious people into it for hygenic reasons.  Whatever gets snipped off contains millions of sensitive pleasure nerve endings. Bummer for any guy who had it done.

Probably has to do with some random belief that if you are all caught up in seeking pleasures of the flesh, you won't awaken to the pleasures of spirit. (salvation from material entrapments)

Had they known about testosterone back then related to the sex drive, they may have put men or women with high testosterone levels on estrogen to be saved.  :tongue:

Must've had something to do with lust being one of the seven dead lies. Whatever to that. However, in my opinion, when people are "making love", you couldn't be more in tune with spirit, feeling free and creative energy if you tried.

Just my opinions. If it's in your religious belief to do it, it's your body, your life.  :thumbup:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Basilides]
    #5505563 - 04/11/06 09:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You won't find God's word on ink and paper

You mean the bible ISN'T the word of God??? :confused:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5505569 - 04/11/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If it's in your religious belief to do it, it's your body, your life.

What if you're an eight day old baby as required by God and you haven't decided yet if it's your religious belief or not?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineleery11
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Registered: 06/24/05
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Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Diploid]
    #5505597 - 04/11/06 09:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
I wouldn't circumcise a son if I had one. They still try to talk non religious people into it for hygenic reasons. Whatever gets snipped off contains millions of sensitive pleasure nerve endings. Bummer for any guy who had it done.



yes i went through a period where i felt very bad for being circumcised.... i'm still not over it.

it makes masturbation unnatural..... makes you want to use lubrication... tugging on the shaft just doesn't get you OFF it doesn't give you the right pleasure, but going nuts on the glans isn't the best either....

i can see many ways in which in tact genitalia would be more than useful, especially for pursuing tantra, that is, keeping yourself on the edge of orgasm for as long a period as possible.

it really sucks being circumcised.... but it's the "i'm cut and i'm fine so i'll cut my son" attitude that bugs me the most.


and diplod it's the NT testament teachings that hold weight over the OT if you are a Christian..... one of his disciples said circumcision doesn't matter.

also I'll just throw this out there... I think I remember being circumcised.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (04/12/06 08:03 AM)


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5505692 - 04/11/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Though the claim is still made by sweaty southerners and other hypocritical pork eating followers of archaic texts, god didn't pen the bible... humans did. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant, in denial, delusional, or a simple liar.
It is one thing if it is your body however subjecting a baby to nonconsensual body modification that will forever alter his life is disgusting. If I were not a devoted anarchist I would say it should be punishable by law.
If a good christian wants to be circumcised why not endeavor to do so when you are in your late teens or twenties so as to at least be able to make an informed decision based upon your true desire. The number of people submitting to the rule of christ might shrink, however they would at least have proven an insane degree of devotion that may score them a few extra points in ghost land. The practice is as much about dominating the week as it is anything based on biblical spookyism.
georgem


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Diploid]
    #5505705 - 04/11/06 09:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

To fundamentalist Christians, it is probably the infallible Word of God to them. Personally, I fail to see how it's possible to become a "book" in essence and spirit.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Diploid]
    #5505763 - 04/11/06 09:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
If it's in your religious belief to do it, it's your body, your life.

What if you're an eight day old baby as required by God and you haven't decided yet if it's your religious belief or not?




When I typed that, I was thinking about the people you were advising to get clipped. :lol:

I can't comment on those who circumcise babies for religious reasons because this is in MR&P and I want to follow the rules and be respectful of them in here.

I can comment on those who are non religious and get talked into it by doctors for hygienic reasons. I think parents should first be better informed about the reduced sexual pleasure side effects and what hygienic problems may be experienced. I think if more were better informed, they would opt not to. I don't understand why they wouldn't wait until their sons can be old enough to make an informed decision for their own body.

Doctors and nurses push hard for it. I remember when going for prenatal care, before we knew the sex, it came up and they asked if it's a boy, would we want it done. When we said no, they pushed the hygienic end of it. Non religious people are doing it to their sons too under the doctors advice. They are medical scientist advising circumcision. It's not just the religious people doing it to baby boys.

I had a daughter and even though most parents today get their baby girls ears pierced, I wouldn't even do that.:lol: Her ears. When/if she decides to get them pierced, I'll take her.

You would've gotten broader discussion/debate on this one if you posted it in P&S or even the physical health forum.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Basilides]
    #5505772 - 04/11/06 09:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Books in essence and spirit. Reification of spiritualism in the form of a mass produced text provides great leverage to place a mediating force between she/he who experiences and the experience itself. Control freaks rule the world.
georgem


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: georgeM]
    #5505834 - 04/11/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

jesus explains this in the gospel of thomas:

His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision useful or not?" He said to them, "If it were useful, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become profitable in every respect.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Diploid]
    #5506133 - 04/11/06 11:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The penalty of non-observance is 'karet': exclusion from the kingdom of God.

There was also a time when if you didn't give the Church money, you wouldn't be saved. It's totally a matter of culture, society, and timeperiod.

The bible is a book. It's like a finger pointing at the moon. So don't get caught up in details of who wrote it or why, the important thing is what it symbolizes.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineTemptress
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: leery11]
    #5506230 - 04/11/06 11:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

and diplod it's the NT testament teachings that hold weight over the OT if you are a Christian




so the rules for entry can be changed at any time. how can we be sure they have not been revised since the NT?


--------------------
i have less ego than you do!


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5506233 - 04/11/06 11:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Her ears. When/if she decides to get them pierced, I'll take her.  :thumbup:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Temptress]
    #5506980 - 04/12/06 08:03 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Temptress said:
Quote:

and diplod it's the NT testament teachings that hold weight over the OT if you are a Christian




so the rules for entry can be changed at any time. how can we be sure they have not been revised since the NT?



I'm just telling you their perspective. Christians are followers of Christ and Christ was a prophet of God who REVISED old traditions. If some new prophet came along then perhaps they could be revised.....

it is not correct for any authority to do any revisions, which has probably happened nonetheless, but you have to understand their perspective. To a proper Christian the OT is just reading material, it's not to be followed or put above the rules that Christ set down. To do so is to go against your religion.... to NOT folow the OT is to go WITH your religion, generally speaking.

the OT is for Jews, the NT is for people who believe in the authenticity of Christ.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: leery11]
    #5507739 - 04/12/06 11:29 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

so.. did anyone ever come up with a reason WHY? I always though Kellog introduced it to mainstream, although it had been in the bible for so long. And he just wanted people to stop jerking off so much and start working. Turns out, it didnt work.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: kotik]
    #5508468 - 04/12/06 02:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

circumcision in America, to my knowledge and research, was mainly started to stop masturbation... and it does work, because it's not that natural to spitshine your rod .... it takes the EASE and simplicity away.... though paraodixically, yielding less overall sexual satisfaction..... probably causes people to masturbate a lot more.(that's my speculation anyway)


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: leery11]
    #5508697 - 04/12/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I can't wait to find the person who brutally robbed me of my foreskin.

:laser:


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Diploid]
    #5513182 - 04/13/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Leviticus 12:3

On the eighth day, the child's foreskin shall be circumcised. :whoa:

The penalty of non-observance is 'karet': exclusion from the kingdom of God.

If you are male and still have the unabridged version, better get with it before you piss Him off. Or is this a metaphor too?




Romans 2 :

25Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

I think in chapter seven he goes on to talk more about this subject of old law/new law, and what it means to have died by sin, and what it means to be born again into the new law.


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Requirement To Enter The Kindom Of God [Re: Diploid]
    #5519574 - 04/15/06 10:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I like how mine looks circumcized. :shrug:


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