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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Phred]
    #5500144 - 04/10/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I've no doubt you could find as many blogs as you want. What I questioned was your claim that the UN believed this. And that the idea that if intelligence agencies say something then it must be true. Have you learned nothing from the farce of WMD?

And of course it wouldn't do for me to provide you a source that might be deemed "neocon" or "right wing", Hersh is none of those things.


You havn't read the article closely enough. Hersh doesn't claim those things. He says intelligence agencies and the IAEA have claimed it to be so.

And the american intelligence agency's opinion on Iran isn't a valid source.

Try again.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5500179 - 04/10/06 03:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What sort of source would make you happy?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Redstorm]
    #5500242 - 04/10/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

One that says what he wants it to. Sometimes it's some kids term paper.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Redstorm]
    #5500356 - 04/10/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Alex213, do you honestly believe that Iran has peaceful intentions in mind with respect to it's uranium enrichment program? Yes or no? Don't worry about rights, or anything else. All moral obligations aside, do you honestly believe they want to enrich uranium for completely peaceful purposes? That they have no intent what-so-ever of working on nuclear weapons technology? Please, just a simple yes or no. (I am curious, nothing more.)


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5500358 - 04/10/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hersh doesn't claim those things. He says intelligence agencies and the IAEA have claimed it to be so.




Indeed, he does say those agencies have said so. Why do you believe he is lying about that?

How else are we to know what intelligence agencies and the IAEA says except through reporters, Alex213? Intelligence agencies don't publish the New York Times or the Telegraph. Nor do they have their own shows on the BBC and CNN. They give interviews and press conferences and issue press releases to reporters.

Do you think Seymour Hersh just made all this up out of thin air? Because if you do, then once again I must ask you the same question I asked in a previous thread -- what are your criteria for deciding when a reporter is reporting fact and when he's making stuff up? You believe Ralph Peters is making stuff up -- apparently because he once served in the military. You have demonstrated over and over again your conviction that anything published on a blog run by anyone to the right of Noam Chomsky is unreliable. Now you're questioning the credibility of Seymour Hersh -- a well known critic of the Bush administration.

So who does that leave, Alex213? No one but the famous Alex213 "experts", it would seem. Which "experts" should we believe regarding Iran's uranium enrichment program?




Phred


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Phred]
    #5502295 - 04/11/06 02:03 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Indeed, he does say those agencies have said so. Why do you believe he is lying about that?


You misunderstand the point. You are claiming that because Hersh is saying these things and for some reason you believe Hersh is "anti-Bush" then that makes them more reliable. I pointed out to you that Hersh isn't saying these things. Hersh is saying the american intelligence agency is saying these things. That completely destroys your point.

How else are we to know what intelligence agencies and the IAEA says except through reporters,

You are missing the point (again). The intelligence agencies also said Iraq had WMD.

Most reasonable people would question intelligence agencies claims very seriously. Particularly as it looks like Bush is gearing up for war again and is in need of "intelligence" to convince people he should attack.

Do you think Seymour Hersh just made all this up out of thin air?

I don't think I can explain this any simpler. Seymour Hersh is quoting intelligence agencies. Intelligence agencies have a record on this that needs serious considering before you automatically believe every word they say. Do you get it now?

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Seuss]
    #5502300 - 04/11/06 02:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Alex213, do you honestly believe that Iran has peaceful intentions in mind with respect to it's uranium enrichment program? Yes or no? Don't worry about rights, or anything else. All moral obligations aside, do you honestly believe they want to enrich uranium for completely peaceful purposes? That they have no intent what-so-ever of working on nuclear weapons technology? Please, just a simple yes or no. (I am curious, nothing more.)

We've been through this all before Seuss. All the questions about "Do you believe Saddam has WMD Yes or No?".

I have absolutely no idea what the Iranians intend to do. And neither do you.

I could guess on the grounds of "Well, the Iranian leader has shifty eyes, and George Bush says the intelligence agencies says so" but that was exactly the same bluff they pulled on WMD. The truth is, I havn't a clue. But it's best not to buy the same bullshit twice.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5502899 - 04/11/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


I don't think I can explain this any simpler. Seymour Hersh is quoting intelligence agencies. Intelligence agencies have a record on this that needs serious considering before you automatically believe every word they say. Do you get it now?




Why would he be quoting the intelligence agencies if he didn't believe what they had to say?

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OfflinePhred
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5503301 - 04/11/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I had said that the IAEA, the UN (more specifically the UNSC), and international intelligence agencies all reject Iran's claims that their uranium enrichment program is for peaceful purposes only.

I have since provided backup for that statement re the IAEA and intelligence agencies. As for the UNSC, here's a couple of links --

http://english.people.com.cn/200603/30/eng20060330_254639.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iran/2006/iran-060329-voa03.htm

Seuss has also provided several posts on the topic showing why the Iranian claims are bogus.

You are of course free to continue to believe the Iranian official story. That would place you in a very VERY tiny minority.



Phred


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Phred]
    #5503314 - 04/11/06 12:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

international intelligence agencies all reject Iran's claims that their uranium enrichment program is for peaceful purposes only.


So what? International intelligence agencies were said to have claimed that Iraq had WMD.

You are of course free to continue to believe the Iranian official story

What official story are you talking about?

That would place you in a very VERY tiny minority.


I havn't said I believe any story. I am saying that I don't buy bullshit from the same people twice. "intelligence agencies say so" doesn't convince me.

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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5503362 - 04/11/06 12:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

"intelligence agencies say so" doesn't convince me.




What about the IAEA, then?





Phred


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