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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Nothing is truly simultaneous
    #5498549 - 04/09/06 11:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

There is no fundamental block of time, no end of possible divisibility. Sure, you can quote Planck's time, but I think even Planck would tell you that it is probably only the end of divisibility due to our limits of perception.

So, if all of the above is true, then no two events could ever be truly simultaneous, and our perception is the only cause for us to believe otherwise.

but the flip side is this: what then is considered an event? if there is no real parallel simulataneous events, where would you begin to discern the beginning and the end of an event in the context of extra-sensory reality.

I think this is one of the main things we have "used" time as: something to discern the beginning and the end of an event.... but what about "uneventful" existence? like a cubic meter of a vaccuum? would you consider that cubic meter to have "Events"? or would the cubic meter be an entire event until change?

well..... im going to smoke a bowl and look forward to reading atleast one reply on here tomorrow.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5498552 - 04/09/06 11:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"..every end, is a new, .. beginning!"
-Unknown :P


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: Gomp]
    #5498795 - 04/10/06 03:14 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

even the dust moves in a vacuum.


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5498905 - 04/10/06 05:21 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The Casimir effect has been measured in empty space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: psyka]
    #5499035 - 04/10/06 07:22 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Casimir is a badass

Electron Spin Resonance permits the travel of information thru the vacuums of space  :mushroom2:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: fresh313]
    #5499051 - 04/10/06 07:37 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

> There is no fundamental block of time, no end of possible divisibility.

Inifite series can have finite limits. In other words, just because time can be divided forever does not mean that an event in time cannot be measured.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: Seuss]
    #5500324 - 04/10/06 04:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

1) i was referring to a perfect vacuum, which there would be no dust in.

2) time cannot be measured, because it is a measurement itself. That is like trying to say that an inch can be measured.

In an analog system, like a perfect circle, there is no logical division of the curve, yet we can create a circle which seems to be perfect on computers, when in fact it is ever so slight lines and right angles.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5500402 - 04/10/06 04:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Perhaps I am missing something here. It seems we are talking about two different things. If the following makes no sense... probably the reason...

> That is like trying to say that an inch can be measured.

An inch can be measured. An inch, by definition is a measurement, equated to a physical constant, such as a multiple of the exact wavelength of light given off by an atom when excited to a certain energy level.

Now if we are talking about measuring an actual inch of something, then things get a little bit more complicated. Rather than defining something, we are applying the definition. We can still measure an inch of something, but we are limited by the presision of our measuring device.


> In an analog system, like a perfect circle, there is no logical division of the curve

Of course there are. The circle has a radius and arc lengths, which can be used together to create logical divisions. In fact, the ratio of one full arc length of a circle to the radius of the circle is governed by a very cool constant known as pi, aproximately 3.14159265... This ratio holds true regardless of the radius or arc length of the circle.

Using this, we have an entire coordinate system designed specifically for working with circles, allowing us to divide them up easier. We also use some crazy functions, known as sin, cos to help us divide circles up into logical units without loosing presision.

> yet we can create a circle which seems to be perfect on computers, when in fact it is ever so slight lines and right angles.

Again, I am missing the point? With a raster of cells, one can only approximate a geographic shape. The equations the computer uses to decide what cell in the raster is the closest to the edge of the circle are presise. The presision is only lost due to the display media. For that matter, our eyes or incapable of seeing a "true circle" for the same reason. Pure mathmatics are not so limited.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: Seuss]
    #5500461 - 04/10/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yes, we are on different topics here, as well as getting way off the point... my fault probably.

basically, I just wanted to open the discussion for the statement, that nothing truly happens simultaneously.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5500722 - 04/10/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

everything is simultaneous:
everything happens together,
and this keeps on happenning.

the limitation is in the little beings who are trying to
summarize things from their tiny points of view


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5500924 - 04/10/06 07:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

actually, I have attempted to theorize beyond my perception and my point of view.

Just saying that everything is one, and it is only an illusion that everything is seperate is fluff, it doesnt say anything, it doesnt convey a meaning, just mystical blather.

If time is truly analog, then there is no end to the division of it, therefor concepts of measuring time that are unfathomable could be the difference between two things actually occuring simultaneously.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5501167 - 04/10/06 08:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The point is that, seperate from the relative notion of time, every event is occuring within the present moment.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5503540 - 04/11/06 01:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

exactly redgreen and fwg.
If nothing would be simultaneous, we would not exist, and the universe would not either, because things could not interact.
The moment is the smallest quantity in time, and it is all that ever is. It is unlimited small, so its value is unlimited large.
All is in it, simultaneously.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5507263 - 04/12/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

matter, light, and engergy have been discovered not to travel in smooth, continuous paths, but instead they are made up of discreet packets called quanta that jump in and out of existence without continuity.

There is no such thing as a perfectly smooth motion. All change occurrs in small steps.

And since time is simply a measurement of change in a physical system, it is not unreasonable to think that time is not continuous, but that it's smallest increment is the time needed for one hop-and-pop of an electron...


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5507317 - 04/12/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
The point is that, seperate from the relative notion of time, every event is occuring within the present moment.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




can the "present moment" not be infinitly divisible as well?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Nothing is truly simultaneous [Re: dr0mni]
    #5511066 - 04/13/06 03:24 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

matter, light, and engergy have been discovered not to travel in smooth, continuous paths, but instead they are made up of discreet packets called quanta that jump in and out of existence without continuity.



I am not quite sure, but I think these 'packets' could be only models to calculate with. No one has seen quantas jump out of and into existence, that will say, nobody knows exactly what happens there inbetween and causes that confusion :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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