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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Care to understand more? [Re: psyka]
    #5500001 - 04/10/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If any of us made it this far, its because we can be objective and rational. We need both sides of the brain to progress is right. No arguments there.

Funny about your Santana synchronicity/coincidence.:lol:

Sure information is out there about metatron. How else could I know people are talking about it.  :confused:  I questioned that when I first started hearing about him about 10 years ago. It was when I heard about that 6 year old girl who doesn't have any access to information about him that I am looking for explanations again. 

People talk. Like when you go to a ball game, you tell others about it. Like when a cop pulls you over and gives you a ticket, you tell others about it. Like when a friend helps you fix your car, you tell others about him.

People talking about similar mystical experiences isn't proof they are not having one, or copying from others. Even if you heard some guy had his car rear-ended and became aware of such things, why would you start people your car was rear ended too. You wouldn;t until or if, it actually happened to you.

How did you do the math that says, "many people who have a similar experience ONLY do so because the first was made up and all the rest copied making it up too" ?

Doesn't that sound made up or irrational and delusional?


Experiences are experiences and people talk.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblepsyka
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Posts: 1,652
Re: Care to understand more? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5500108 - 04/10/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The little girl's mom is a New Age believer and talks about Metatron.

It isn't hard to create a religion/mystical expirence (i.e. Scientology). I mean look at how many there are. Look at how many deities people worship. And many of the names are similiar. Does this make the mythology any more substantial or correct? Hardly.

The mind has a tendency to take information, digest and store it. Even if you are unaware of it. Mystical expirences are neuron's being triggered by a neurological event. What was so important about your expirence anyway... other than feeling high?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Posts: 10,685
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Re: Care to understand more? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5500285 - 04/10/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"For those of you who think there is just this one physical life for you to live and then its worm food, and only the physical to be experienced, what are you doing here at this forum?

Why aren't you out there in the world, busy making more money, having more sex and hedonism, or stepping over others to get ahead?"

What an intensley negative statement. Your pretensions to an open mind are transparent and your inherant bitterness is apparent.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineTemptress
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Registered: 01/31/06
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Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: Care to understand more? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5500331 - 04/10/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

or stepping over others to get ahead?"





like hoping others cars break down so that one can zoom on by? ya gotta love those service-to-thers types.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
i have less ego than you do!


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Care to understand more? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5500411 - 04/10/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds like you are holding a bitter grudge Hue. This is the second time you have made that same personal attack on me in the last week. Should I go dig up the other recent one where you said the exact same thing?

If you have a personal grudge against me for something you are bitter about, perhaps it can be worked out in PMs. In the mean time, you are derailing my thread and are probably getting all worked up over nothing.
 
The question I asked that you quoted was a legitimate question to derive some insight for understanding from.  I am curious about the beleifs of those who think life is all physical and chemicals, nothing more.  If I beleived that, I wouldn't have a reason to be at a philosophy and spirituality forum. I think people who say that, may actually be at least curious about something more, for them to come here. Same as they question "mystics" I can question the foundations of others beliefs. Or, are we only allowed to ask questions of mystics and no one else?

This post is meant to serve better two way understanding for anyone open to broadening their understanding.

As the thread starter I am going to kindly ask you to quit derailing this post and take your personal attacks and problems with me into PMs. Thank you!  :sun:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Care to understand more? [Re: Temptress]
    #5500494 - 04/10/06 05:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Temptress said:
Quote:

or stepping over others to get ahead?"





like hoping others cars break down so that one can zoom on by? ya gotta love those service-to-thers types.  :rolleyes:




I never said I hoped other peoples cars break down. Why did you make that up? Quote me saying that or admit to lying for the prupose of misrepresenting the truth of the actual matter in a lame attempt to paint a false picture swami, I mean Temptress.

I asked for a cop to get off the road, period.  Service to others is always involved. That cop had passed by 4 other stranded cars during the hour I was behind him and only when I made the request for him to get off the road, did he actually pull over to help someone.

The Universe ONLY works to help for the good will of ALL involved. It'll will never work to hurt another to your own advantage. You are on your own when you carry il will around for others. Thats what free will is about.

I got help and the stranded dude got help as well.  WIN WIN.  :cool:

You are another who jumped in to derail the thread with personal BS, swami, I mean temptress.

If anyone cares to keep this thread on track, I'm still open to on topic discussion. I'm not surprised some wanted to derail a thread aimed at gaining more understanding of the mystic experience.

They are nothing more then experiences people really have just like any other. It's just a label for something quite common only , not as well understood, Yet.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Care to understand more? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5500541 - 04/10/06 05:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
The Universe ONLY works to help for the good will of ALL involved. It'll will never work to hurt another to your own advantage.




Then why does it happen all the time? What about those other cars that might have needed help? I'm inclined to think that the Universe simply works, as it is, a mesh network of continously interacting aspects with a sensitive dependance on the initial starting conditions of the universe.

Cause and effect, all the way, baby! :grin: Complex patterns of behavior are emergent traits of cause and effect, such as the flight patterns of migratory birds.

If someone was observing traffic, and was not aware that there were people navigating these vehicles, they might be very well inclined to hypothesize that the roads were conducting magnetic currents that led each car along its way. :lol: I'm sitting there at a red light, a line of cars in front of me and behind me, I see the light turn green, and there we go, systematically!

Which brings me to my next point! Don't you fucking hate it if a light turns green and the person that is first in line doesn't start driving in the first half-second afterwards?! Its like, jesus fucking christ, you are on the road to drive, thus, it is your primary focus to pay some fucking attention and succesfully complete the simple task of driving! Fucking pay attention! :mad:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineLife_of_a_Cell
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Registered: 05/29/04
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Re: Care to understand more? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5500620 - 04/10/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

"The question I asked that you quoted was a legitimate question to derive some insight for understanding from. I am curious about the beleifs of those who think life is all physical and chemicals, nothing more. If I beleived that, I wouldn't have a reason to be at a philosophy and spirituality forum. I think people who say that, may actually be at least curious about something more, for them to come here. Same as they question "mystics" I can question the foundations of others beliefs. Or, are we only allowed to ask questions of mystics and no one else?"




I believe in a natural universe which, although often mysterious, is understandable through empirical observation and logical inference. As such, you could say I believe life is nothing more than chemicals. This does not make me incapable of having moral values or a respect for life, and I must say that I find your claims of tolerance difficult to believe, in light of that fact that you equate empricial philosophy with immorality in the forms of consumerism and hedonism.

To me, it seems far more amazing that natural processes could lead from simple bacterium, all the way to primates weilding nuclear energies, and that thought is simply the product organic molecules and electrical impulses travelling through a massive neural network, than the idea that consciousness is the product of some divine force or that we are here by the design of some cosmic entity.

I find it very liberating to think that this is my only shot at happiness, and this life the only time I have to try and make an infintesimal shift in the direction I'd like to see the world take. It's an astounding opportunity that will never be available to me again, which is why I think it would be a petty waste to constantly chase thrills.

So, I think that what exists is observable and what is not observable must not exist. And I think that we came from nothing and we'll end in nothing, but for that flicker of time in between we get to be part of something, and by developing philosophy and debunking claims of the paranormal, we can help the human construct to progress. That's why I'm reading posts in this forum.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Care to understand more? [Re: psyka]
    #5500631 - 04/10/06 05:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

psyka said:
The little girl's mom is a New Age believer and talks about Metatron.




I would've come to that quick conclusion too, had she not shared what her daughter told her looking for anyone to help her understand why her daughter would say such things. She had no clue why her daughter would be talking about that or about some angel named Metatron. Memeton is a close fit though. Just weird.

I know the drill. Why assume ALL people don't run it? Thats a false assumption. I put everything I experience under scrutiny myself. I also have a child who wants every noise going bump in the night explained away. I have to hunt down where sounds are coming from weekly. I find automatic sprinkler systems running, (not spirits whispering in the walls) palm branches banging on the roof, (not monsters trying to bang there way into the house) air conditioning vents humming, (not ghosts)  toys running low on batteries going off in the closet. ( Not possessed toys like chucky) My first inclination is to assume a logical and rational explanation of strange things will and can be found and if I can find them I will.  :wink:

Quote:

It isn't hard to create a religion/mystical experience (i.e. Scientology). I mean look at how many there are. Look at how many deities people worship. And many of the names are similar. Does this make the mythology any more substantial or correct? Hardly.




It's not hard to do is right. Where do you think Science Fiction comes from. Doesn't mean everyone is experiencing  or passing off fiction.

If you catch one guy selling cubic zirconium's passing them off as real diamonds, does that mean everyone who sells diamonds is automatically selling cubic zirconia?

Thats sloppy speculation, sloppy science, gross missasumption and flat out ignorance to assume such.

Quote:

The mind has a tendency to take information, digest and store it. Even if you are unaware of it. Mystical experiences are neuron's being triggered by a neurological event. What was so important about your experience anyway... other than feeling high?




Why does the brain do that?

I never said it was important.  :wink: It was just an experience I can not account for what brought it on, nor duplicate or recreate if I tried. I can say, it was overwhelmingly beautiful and awesome to experience. If I knew how to recreate it, I would again and again and again.

What was the purpose for my neurons dumping me into the experience? You tell me. I do know that anything that can bring about that intensity of peace and humility is a cool thing.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I hope you answer why my neurons would jack me with that one while I was leaving the pool thinking about getting ready for work.

Just because something can explain how something happens on a physical level, doesn't automatically cover WHY it happens. Where we don't yet have the WHY answered, remains a philosophical, metaphysical or spiritual mystery to be understood or in the least human curiosity for some and or  something just neat to experience.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Care to understand more? [Re: Life_of_a_Cell]
    #5500805 - 04/10/06 06:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I believe in a natural universe which, although often mysterious, is understandable through empirical observation and logical inference.  As such, you could say I believe life is nothing more than chemicals.  This does not make me incapable of having moral values or a respect for life, and I must say that I find your claims of tolerance difficult to believe, in light of that fact that you equate empirical philosophy with immorality in the forms of consumerism and hedonism.




Thats a start. However, I did not equate empirical philosophy with immorality in the forms of consumerism and hedonism. I asked out of curiosity why would one choose moral values or to care or place meaning on chemical reactions?

I can be quite materialistic (though detached) and hedonistic myself at times. I do such things. I don't believe in moral sin and this isn't about moral judgments.

If any physical, mental or emotional harm is caused to another and it ALL is just chemicals reacting, why have it mean anything else but that, why choose to give any meaning, moral included?

Do you understand the question better now?



Quote:

I find it very liberating to think that this is my only shot at happiness, and this life the only time I have to try and make an infinitesimal shift in the direction I'd like to see the world take.  It's an astounding opportunity that will never be available to me again, which is why I think it would be a petty waste to constantly chase thrills.




If EVERYTHING is the result of a chemical reaction, what is there to be liberated from and into what else, other then, more chemical reactions?

What makes the chemical reaction that causes the experience of happiness anymore desirable then any other chemical reaction?

Why does seeing the world make a shift you would like to see, matter if your liking is just a meaningless chemical reaction?

Opportunity is just that. Objectively and empirically speaking, the feeling of astonishment comes from chemicals, not the event, right?.

What gives significant meaning to the effects you cause if both cause and effects are just chemical reactions?

Quote:

So, I think that what exists is observable and what is not observable must not exist.




So before we were able to observe microwaves and infared light, they didn't exist? :confused: If it was just a matter of us evolving science technology to detect such things, then, why should one not expect science as it evolves to further detect such things as non physical conscious causation?

Quote:

and by developing philosophy and debunking claims of the paranormal, we can help the human construct to progress.




Prior to that you said you think we come from nothing and will end in nothing. Why do you seek to work to progress your way, and humankind into nothing, if thats where it ends? Doesn't that come across as futile for everyone, no matter what it is they work at?

If what you choose to work at is more significant than another, what makes your chemical reactions making you believe that more significant then those of others that don't?


:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Care to understand more? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5500879 - 04/10/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The why does it happen all the time. I'm inclined to think that the Universe simply works, as it is, a mesh network of continously interacting aspects with a sensitive dependance on the initial starting conditions of the universe.





That applies!!! It may be that the guy who got help, asked for intervention as well and its all an intelligently creative orchestration. :shrug:



Quote:

If someone was observing traffic, and was not aware that there were people navigating these vehicles, they might be very well inclined to hypothesize that the roads were conducting magnetic currents that led each car along its way. :lol: I'm sitting there at a red light, a line of cars in front of me and behind me, I see the light turn green, and there we go, systematically!




I wish. Ever get behind that guy who doesn't see the light change and just sits there. Neat visual of the magnetic grids BTW. I like when some TV graphics show traffic as lazer lights moving along paths.


Quote:

Which brings me to my next point! Don't you fucking hate it if a light turns green and the person that is first in line doesn't start driving in the first half-second afterwards?! Its like, jesus fucking christ, you are on the road to drive, thus, it is your primary focus to pay some fucking attention and succesfully complete the simple task of driving! Fucking pay attention! :mad:




Hahaha you already said that. Sorry, I replied as I went down reading and quoting. Thats what horns are for.  :evil: I told my husband I wanted to make a video game called Road Rage, where you had rocket launchers, Oil slick droppers and all sorts of cool crap on your car. And then when other drivers in the game pulled shit like that, you could blast them off the road. I think people would LOVE playing virtual Road Rage.:lol:

P.S. Thanks for the cool insight and comic relief in this thread.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineTemptress
Butterfly
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Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: Care to understand more? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5501807 - 04/10/06 10:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Universe ONLY works to help for the good will of ALL involved.




driving well over the speed limit is a dnager to all and terribly selfish. your wish was only for yourself dear sister.  :heart:


--------------------
i have less ego than you do!


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Care to understand more? [Re: Temptress]
    #5502037 - 04/11/06 12:05 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

And? So give me a ticket copper.:crankey::cop: And spank me too, I deserve it.:spank: Harder.......... HARDER I SAID!:crankey:

I've written here before that the only Law I break is speeding sometimes. It's no secret obviously. You can judge me for that however you want to. I will forgive you. :japsmile:

What does that have to do with the post topic anyway? Oh I know! :cool: The worst that could happen if I had caused a crash would be physical chemical reactions. :cool: They don't mean anything right? Any meaning you or I give to one is all in our imaginations right? Just ask Pyska. He'll tell you so! :cool:

See I'm a quick study!  :grin:

You on the other hand don't seem to study material very well. You made that statement as if somewhere in this thread, I said something about selfishness being wrong. Care to go grab a quote from here where I said that?  :wink:

Or are you once again, making up stuff and twisting words to incite an argument where one doesn't exist.  :wink:Your name is new, your word play tricks are old, well known and worn out. Save them for tripping up unsuspecting noobies and starting flame wars and dramas with them mmmmmmkay. :wink:

You like drama? Looking for one here? Heres one for ya-

(Forelorn Dramatic voice)I might as well digress while I am here. It's true, I am a shameful horrible selfish human being for speeding. I'm not worthy of living or your presence.:bowdown: Will you ever forgive me? I will repent for my wicked evil ways. Thank you for showing me the light of my wrongdoing against my fellow man.
I am the lowest of the lowly tis true.  I will sacrifice my car to the speeding overlords, in exchange for their forgiveness as well. To show my repentance for my wicked ways, I will spend the rest of my days standing on the highway with a sign telling everyone to SLOW DOWN:crankey: (Don't these people know they are putting chemicals at risk by speeding? :mad2:) I will forever hide from my disgrace. :ashamed:

Whoa is me, whoa is me, whoa is me.........:cryariver: :suicide:



Is that what you wanted? I aims to please :flaming:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Care to understand more? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5502047 - 04/11/06 12:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
And? So give me a ticket copper.:crankey::cop: And spank me too, I deserve it.:spank: Harder.......... HARDER I SAID!:crankey:




:whacker:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: Care to understand more? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5502067 - 04/11/06 12:14 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

HARDER! :crankey:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineTemptress
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Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: Care to understand more? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5502105 - 04/11/06 12:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

*disregards noise and sputter*

is it or is it not selfish to endanger others to meet some arbitrary private timeline - yes or no?


--------------------
i have less ego than you do!


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Posts: 7,469
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Re: Care to understand more? [Re: Temptress]
    #5502129 - 04/11/06 12:33 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

There may have been noise and sputter but I did not stutter. :wink:

Geez you are a slow study.:rolleyes:

I said, "I might as well digress while I am here. It's true, I am a shameful horrible selfish human being for speeding. I'm not worthy of living or your presence. Will you ever forgive me? I will repent for my wicked evil ways. Thank you for showing me the light of my wrongdoing against my fellow man.
I am the lowest of the lowly tis true. I will sacrifice my car to the speeding overlords, in exchange for their forgiveness as well. To show my repentance for my wicked ways, I will spend the rest of my days standing on the highway with a sign telling everyone to SLOW DOWN (Don't these people know they are putting chemicals at risk by speeding? ) I will forever hide from my disgrace.

Whoa is me, whoa is me, whoa is me.........


Now please quite buggin me. I am working on my slow down sign. I have to hit the pavement tomorrow with it. Chemicals are on the line ya know. :jawdrop:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineTemptress
Butterfly
Female

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: Care to understand more? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5502150 - 04/11/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sometimes, I think people who have only known altered states and or mystical experience via ingesting a psychedelic, think the psychedelic chemical is the cause. It is just triggering the release of your own natural chemicals that stay other wise stored. How easy to say, "oh it was the heroin".




when one is dying from a deadly poison, how silly to think it is an external checmical; it is merely the body releasing its own toxins that will kill you.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
i have less ego than you do!


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OfflineTemptress
Butterfly
Female

Registered: 01/31/06
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Loc: Texas - where else?
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: Care to understand more? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5502168 - 04/11/06 12:45 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Will you ever forgive me?




my emotional state has nothing to do with the topic which is about us understanding your view. on the one hand you talk about the narrowing of ego as a detriment to the natural unfolding; then you give an example that is entirely ego-based. it is truly hard to follow you.

whne the islamists flew their planes into the wtc, they prayed "allah, please make our aim be true. thy will be done." god granted their wish because it was free from ego and for the betterment of all else their wish would have been denied...


--------------------
i have less ego than you do!


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Care to understand more? [Re: Temptress]
    #5502196 - 04/11/06 01:03 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Your name is new, your word play tricks are old

what was Temptress's old name?


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