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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Christ consciousness.
#5492382 - 04/08/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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When someone attains Christ-consciousness, do you think...... they pretty much become Christ, and exist only to bring other people into Christ consciousness? Do you think there is no distinction between them and Jesus at that point? Figuratively speaking?
Do you think there are people in this world right now have attained Christ consciousness and are staying here to help the rest of us?
Do you think it's possible for the polar opposite to be, that someone could be completely and totally "evil" and corrupted with some sort of evil consciousness and attempt to take people's minds, that way, too? Or do you think that such things are impossible..... that they would never make it that far, that evil is simply being mundane and no altered consciousness will come of it, to give you power to corrupt?
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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danliten
allas user


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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: leery11]
#5492467 - 04/08/06 11:04 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think the Christ thing is given to all who really pursue it.And once obtained continue to chase it cuz the first sight of straying and it goes away. The lack of miracles and healings and thing of the sort are proof that none is willing to go that far with the religion.On the other side i think being evil just comes so natural that one only need to look for it to atain it. At least thats how its been explained to me.
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: leery11]
#5492472 - 04/08/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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First I think it's important to state what is meant by "Christ Consciousness" as it is potentially ambiguous. I interpret it to mean the state of yoga, which Jesus was probably immersed in constantly or nearly constantly.
Do you think there is no distinction between them and Jesus at that point? Figuratively speaking?
Pretty much, the only distinction that can be made is by someone living in the world of Maya, or ignorance.
Do you think there are people in this world right now have attained Christ consciousness and are staying here to help the rest of us?
Absolutely! The Bodhisattva and Guru are two prime examples.
Do you think it's possible for the polar opposite to be, that someone could be completely and totally "evil" and corrupted with some sort of evil consciousness and attempt to take people's minds, that way, too?
Consciousness does not have attributes such as 'good' or 'evil', it is merely ignorance that gives rise to these qualifications. If someone is corrupt or evil, it is because they are living in ignorance.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: dblaney]
#5492515 - 04/08/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said:
Consciousness does not have attributes such as 'good' or 'evil', it is merely ignorance that gives rise to these qualifications. If someone is corrupt or evil, it is because they are living in ignorance.
mmmm but what if someone wants to destroy a large number of people and somehow has the mental strength/powers/consciousness in order to do so?
Is there a polar opposite incarnate, human form, of a Boddhisattva, or is the polar opposite of the Boddhisattva simply THIS realm right now, samsara, maya.... etc?
I'm seeing things in dualities right now.
and for Christ-consciousness..... what I mean is basically what you say, it is a state of illumination from which you are liberated from rebirth and death, and from which you gain inner divinity and lose the false self, the ..... ignorant and spiteful and dangerous qualities of the human mind, basically like being a Buddha or a Boddhisattva..... but I guess I view it as you attain Christ-consciousness while a human, you aren't born from the heavens or anything to come down to help, you just are a normal human and eventually you purify? Well that doesn't matter too much .....
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (04/08/06 11:20 AM)
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: leery11]
#5492800 - 04/08/06 12:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The "second coming" of Christ, is Christ-consciousness... ..we all are! :p
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Gomp]
#5492976 - 04/08/06 01:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The mind transforms in order to conduct higher levels of awareness. The more one becomes aware of consciousness and "identify" with it, the less one's direct perceptions and subsequent experience of reality becomes obstructed by mental constructs.
Whatever action or behavior flows through oneself will occur naturally, as the ultimate expression of awareness. Speculation as to what that action or behavior will be when one is conducting Christ consciousness is rather moot.
Moot! 
One of the profound realizations that results from awareness is that we are all on paths of developing awareness. The fact that one has raised their level of awareness promotes that level of awareness in others through one's interaction with one's environment.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: It's not about 'us' and 'them,' it's about 'us-ness.' In Christ, there is 'us-ness.' Differences dissolve in the Universal Consciousness of Christ.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
Edited by fireworks_god (04/08/06 01:32 PM)
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lysergicide
Aurora Borealis


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Christ isn't a being but a representation of one's purer self. The only person that can bring you into a world of enlightment is yourself.
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Temptress
Butterfly


Registered: 01/31/06
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its a moo point.
-------------------- i have less ego than you do!
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Deviate
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: leery11]
#5493136 - 04/08/06 01:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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When someone attains Christ-consciousness, do you think...... they pretty much become Christ, and exist only to bring other people into Christ consciousness? Do you think there is no distinction between them and Jesus at that point? Figuratively speaking?
well i think that its important to remember that just because someone has attained the level of consciousness of jesus, doesn't make them jesus. in other words, they wouldn't necessarily say the exact same thing as jesus or behave the same way. they will express their own individuality in christ. but i dont think that's what you meant. in the sense that both them and jesus are the living christ, there is no disctinction.
Do you think there are people in this world right now have attained Christ consciousness and are staying here to help the rest of us?
yes
Do you think it's possible for the polar opposite to be, that someone could be completely and totally "evil" and corrupted with some sort of evil consciousness and attempt to take people's minds, that way, too? Or do you think that such things are impossible..... that they would never make it that far, that evil is simply being mundane and no altered consciousness will come of it, to give you power to corrupt?
i agree that evil results from ignorance but i also believe that people who commit extremely evil acts live in a different state of conscioussness from normal people. i believe that our actions are a function of our state of conscousness and a typical person stuck in the duality consciousness simply wouldn't commit extremely evil acts under normal circumstances. i've had the experience of being possessed by evil before, so i believe the evil people you speak of embody some measure of that state of consciousness.
Edited by Deviate (04/08/06 01:49 PM)
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: lysergicide]
#5493141 - 04/08/06 01:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
lysergicide said: Christ isn't a being but a representation of one's purer self. The only person that can bring you into a world of enlightenment is yourself.
That/this is what Jesus thought, in the great book! 
"only way to heaven is through 'me' ... " -Jesus!
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Deviate]
#5493187 - 04/08/06 02:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: i agree that evil results from ignorance but i also believe that people who commit extremely evil acts live in a different state of conscioussness from normal people.
Everyone exists in a different state of consciousness than everyone else, due to the interaction of pure awareness and their mind, which focuses that awareness differently and utilizes it for different endeavors, different experiences, different perceptions....
Quote:
i've had the experience of being possessed by evil before, so i believe the evil people you speak of embody some measure of that state of consciousness.
"Possessed by evil"?
Please elaborate in detail. I've personally found such notions as "evil" to be nothing more than grandiose concepts that a mind, for whatever reason, uses to interpret actions and thoughts, and that such a concept doesn't actually lie inherent within the action or thought itself.... more "delusion" than anything else, as it isn't resultant from one's direct perceptions....
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Deviate
newbie
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Everyone exists in a different state of consciousness than everyone else, due to the interaction of pure awareness and their mind, which focuses that awareness differently and utilizes it for different endeavors, different experiences, different perceptions....
right and i believe our actions are a function of this.
" "Possessed by evil"?
Please elaborate in detail. I've personally found such notions as "evil" to be nothing more than grandiose concepts that a mind, for whatever reason, uses to interpret actions and thoughts, and that such a concept doesn't actually lie inherent within the action or thought itself.... more "delusion" than anything else, as it isn't resultant from one's direct perceptions...."
it was resultant from my direct perceptions and not an interpretation by any means. the word "evil" is an interpretation but what it describes is not. i'll put it this way, assuming such a thing could be measured, i would be willing to wager that you would find higher levels of it in people who commit so called "evil" acts than in normal people and assuming it could be induced artificially, i would again be willing to wager that people would immediately identify it as "evil" or an "evil spirit" or something along those lines.
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blaze2
The Witness


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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: leery11]
#5493249 - 04/08/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said: When someone attains Christ-consciousness, do you think...... they pretty much become Christ, and exist only to bring other people into Christ consciousness? Do you think there is no distinction between them and Jesus at that point? Figuratively speaking?
for all intents and purposes there is no difference. THe only difference is the year. God is father to all of us. Not just Jesus.
Quote:
Do you think there are people in this world right now have attained Christ consciousness and are staying here to help the rest of us?
from Revelations:
9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Quote:
Do you think it's possible for the polar opposite to be, that someone could be completely and totally "evil" and corrupted with some sort of evil consciousness and attempt to take people's minds, that way, too? Or do you think that such things are impossible..... that they would never make it that far, that evil is simply being mundane and no altered consciousness will come of it, to give you power to corrupt?
yes that would be the spirit of "satan". There is no doubt that the mind can either work to help, or to work to destroy. Creation adn destruction, duality, Neither can exist without the other.
if there is a Christ then there must be an Anti-Christ.
peace
blaze2
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: leery11]
#5493311 - 04/08/06 02:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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All of us who have faith in Christ, are "in Christ" to greater or lesser degrees. Here's an example of the steadfastness of an indwelling Compassion that 'governs' [Lords] behavior. My Lady and I are plagued by some low-class people next door, who moved to a better neighborhood but took their fear-drenched ghetto values with them. They purchased a German Shephard which they put outside all night. It is a big dog with an incredibly deep bark, who is lonely, bored, never walked or played with, and who barks even at passing aircraft. Even this morning at 4:00 am, my Lady called the police, who responded. She called them night before last and the same annoyed Metro-Dade cop showed up. The cop basically refused to write the neighbor a ticket because the cop thinks like the neighbor, so the neighbor is laughing.
We purchased an ultrasonic dog repeller which works, but I have to be awakened by the dog to manually push a remote button to set it off (the microphone-trigger on the unit sucks). We're being awakened several times a night. We're not gonna move. Now, if we weren't under Compassion, I would have crushed up a few Vicodin or Percoset, rolled the dope into a meatball and it would be lights out forever for the dog. When the neighbor's wife confronted us about the ultrasonic device "messin' with her dog's head," I told her that it's because we're not the kind of people to up and poison a dog. The dog is being its unhappy self, the people could take it in for the night but refuse to.
We struggle at times with thoughts of killing the dog, but no matter how 'deep-n-dark' our thoughts get in the middle of the night, Compassion for the animal buoys us up from acting thusly. Geting the ass**le neighbors a citation from the cops sits perfectly well with us, as does having the cops wake THEM up at 3 or 4 in the morning. The neighbors' attitude is clear about us: they dislike us. Despite my help after the hurricane, and overtures of neighborliness, these are old school, African-Americans who dislike White people, and Really dislike Black-White couples, and basically are saying 'F**K you!' to us from their hatred and prejudice.
I felt like a concrete example might make more sense that some metaphysical speculation about Christhood. We are on a path toward 'theosis' - becoming Christ in our inner lives, but we don't manifest anything more miraculous than simply not doing what lots of south Floridians do - taking the law in their own hands and violating the laws of man AND God. We are "in Christ" and Christ is in us. If you knew how important a good night's sleep is to us, you would truly see the sainthood-in-everyday-life that we are manifesting! 
Peace.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Deviate]
#5493844 - 04/08/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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the word "evil" is an interpretation but what it describes is not.
Okay so you're saying that there is an objective world, and that it is people who subjectively interpret the world as 'good' or 'evil'.
i'll put it this way, assuming such a thing could be measured, i would be willing to wager that you would find higher levels of it in people who commit so called "evil" acts than in normal people
And now you're saying that evil is actually objective. That there exists a perfect Form or Ideal of evil. That evil exists outside of people's minds and is a part of Nature, appearing in varying degrees. This strikes me as a contradiction.
and assuming it could be induced artificially, i would again be willing to wager that people would immediately identify it as "evil" or an "evil spirit" or something along those lines.
So then your worldview is that there are two ultimate and absolute objective forces that are competing against one another, and it is man who labels them as 'good' or 'evil'?
If this is indeed your worldview, then I'm curious as to how God or the equivalent fits into your view. Surely if God is Good then He wouldn't allow for Evil. However, you surely would agree that evil exists. So then we must revise the earlier statement to say that God is Good and Evil. If He is both at once, then clearly He doesn't discriminate between them, otherwise how else could He be both polarities simultaneously? If God and accordingly Nature don't discriminate between Good and Evil (since both exist), then neither should we. We must recognize that there are merely events, and it is our minds which interpret these events as either good or bad, depending upon our preferences and desires.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: dblaney]
#5493996 - 04/08/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I always fall back onto the statement: Evil is the absence of G*D. Then everything comes from one but you have something complementary, even with only one 'pole'. If there could be something absolutely absent of g*d, I wonder myself. I only see it in degrees  But 'free will', I can imagine, can come to totaly absence of g*d, so we don't have to look that far
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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I think that, if you were truly compassionate for the animal, you would put it out of its misery.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: All of us who have faith in Christ, are "in Christ" to greater or lesser degrees. Here's an example of the steadfastness of an indwelling Compassion that 'governs' [Lords] behavior. My Lady and I are plagued by some low-class people next door, who moved to a better neighborhood but took their fear-drenched ghetto values with them. They purchased a German Shephard which they put outside all night. It is a big dog with an incredibly deep bark, who is lonely, bored, never walked or played with, and who barks even at passing aircraft. Even this morning at 4:00 am, my Lady called the police, who responded. She called them night before last and the same annoyed Metro-Dade cop showed up. The cop basically refused to write the neighbor a ticket because the cop thinks like the neighbor, so the neighbor is laughing.
We purchased an ultrasonic dog repeller which works, but I have to be awakened by the dog to manually push a remote button to set it off (the microphone-trigger on the unit sucks). We're being awakened several times a night. We're not gonna move. Now, if we weren't under Compassion, I would have crushed up a few Vicodin or Percoset, rolled the dope into a meatball and it would be lights out forever for the dog. When the neighbor's wife confronted us about the ultrasonic device "messin' with her dog's head," I told her that it's because we're not the kind of people to up and poison a dog. The dog is being its unhappy self, the people could take it in for the night but refuse to.
We struggle at times with thoughts of killing the dog, but no matter how 'deep-n-dark' our thoughts get in the middle of the night, Compassion for the animal buoys us up from acting thusly. Geting the ass**le neighbors a citation from the cops sits perfectly well with us, as does having the cops wake THEM up at 3 or 4 in the morning. The neighbors' attitude is clear about us: they dislike us. Despite my help after the hurricane, and overtures of neighborliness, these are old school, African-Americans who dislike White people, and Really dislike Black-White couples, and basically are saying 'F**K you!' to us from their hatred and prejudice.
I felt like a concrete example might make more sense that some metaphysical speculation about Christhood. We are on a path toward 'theosis' - becoming Christ in our inner lives, but we don't manifest anything more miraculous than simply not doing what lots of south Floridians do - taking the law in their own hands and violating the laws of man AND God. We are "in Christ" and Christ is in us. If you knew how important a good night's sleep is to us, you would truly see the sainthood-in-everyday-life that we are manifesting! 
Peace.
wow and you call yourself a christian. way to treat your fellow man.
So you have neighbors who worked hard as shit and made enough money to get out of the hood', adn what do they find when they make it to "a better life" an asshole neighbor who throws a fit when he doesn't get his way, calls the cops in the middle of the night(even the fuckin pig sided with the hoodrat, which believe me says more than you think about the way you come off to people), abuses their dogs sensitive ears, etc etc.
heres a hint man, your neighbor isnt afraid of the cops and he isnt afraid of you. He loves his dog and now you by asking him to put it inside have assured that he will keep it outside just to piss you off. looks like you handled the situation well.
But your a decent guy so heres the solution, get some earplugs.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: blaze2]
#5494739 - 04/08/06 09:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's the neighbors that lack simple compassion for their dog. Dogs are supposed to be a companion of people, not left out in the yard like a guardsmen to bark away imaginary threats in the neighborhood at night. If they loved their dog and had compassion for it he would be settled at the foot of their bed at night, not left to his own devices, where he barks out of boredom. Some people view their pets as nothing but mechanical creatures, with little insight to the personality of their pets. Their racism towards others is also telling of their character.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Basilides]
#5494902 - 04/08/06 10:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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first off people do not have to show their love in the same way as you to call it love. That dogs job is guarding the house at night to give that guy enough warning to find his gun most likely. I'm sure the guy takes great care of the dog it just so happens that he gave teh dog a night job. oh well its not "simple lack of compassion" its having a pet that is useful God forbid somebody tell Peta.
second off he's most likely not racist against white people, he probrobly has a problem with something else about Markos like calling the cops to take care of a problem he should have dealt with man to man. Something most white city boys never figure out by the way.
You say this guy lived in a bad part of town and you think hes just "uncivilized" I assume. Man I visit a neighborhood all the time that is far worse than wherever this guy came from. I got mexican mafia guys staring me down, everyone walks around strapped and theres plenty of crackheads hiding in shacks.
I live in a small cattle country suburb of san antonio, there were less than 10 blacks in my 2000 people plus HS. I go up in this hood as a skinny(125lbs) white hippy with long ass blond hair, and I get respect. They all know me now, and I'm friendly with all of them. Ive never once been frightened or even threatened. It makes no difference what color you are man. its how you hold yourself, how you look at someone, or even how you dont.
Point is if that guy doesnt respect Markos then Markos isnt commanding it.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
Edited by blaze2 (04/10/06 12:49 PM)
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
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Hmmm...poor dog. He feels alone and frightened by the new surrounding. It's important to not get him mad, because then he will become a chronic barker. One idea would be to open your fence for the dog, so he can come to you, or into your house in the night for shelter But I think the neighbor will close the fence. Another idea would be, to buy a dog yourself and let him in and out into your house in the night (so he would stay calm). The other dog could learn from him, that there's nothing to worry about. Or you do it like Mr. Hetherman in King of Queens and ask your neighbor if you may take his dog for a walk at the evening, through the suburbs, so the dog gets a little tired from walking and learns to know his environment and surroundings  Or, simply talk to your neighbor, saying him that there needs to be a solution and the neighbor has to do his part in finding the solution, too.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5496014 - 04/09/06 09:21 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for the great suggestions. My neighbor is paranoid to begin with, and pissed that we have had the cops wake him up at 4 am. Any contact will have to wait quite a while.
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: dblaney]
#5496322 - 04/09/06 11:46 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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" Okay so you're saying that there is an objective world, and that it is people who subjectively interpret the world as 'good' or 'evil'."
people assign names and labels to the things they experience.
" And now you're saying that evil is actually objective. That there exists a perfect Form or Ideal of evil. That evil exists outside of people's minds and is a part of Nature, appearing in varying degrees. This strikes me as a contradiction."
why?
" So then your worldview is that there are two ultimate and absolute objective forces that are competing against one another, and it is man who labels them as 'good' or 'evil'?"
no, evil is not an ultimate force.
" If this is indeed your worldview, then I'm curious as to how God or the equivalent fits into your view. Surely if God is Good then He wouldn't allow for Evil. However, you surely would agree that evil exists. So then we must revise the earlier statement to say that God is Good and Evil. If He is both at once, then clearly He doesn't discriminate between them, otherwise how else could He be both polarities simultaneously? If God and accordingly Nature don't discriminate between Good and Evil (since both exist), then neither should we. We must recognize that there are merely events, and it is our minds which interpret these events as either good or bad, depending upon our preferences and desires. "
im not talking about events, im talking about psychological forces which drive behavior. states of consciousness. the ultimate "good" consciousness is the christ consciousness which is only good because its sees reality. as jesus said "why thou callest me good? only God is good". evil is based on varying degrees of ignorance. however, evil is not the polar opposite of God. evil is not sustainable. because it is out of accordance with the laws of God it will eventaully self destruct. God can still exist in the absense of evil, he requires no no opposition to function.
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dblaney
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Deviate]
#5496357 - 04/09/06 12:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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people assign names and labels to the things they experience.
This is true.
why?
Because first you say that evil is subjective, and then you say that it is in fact objective. Perhaps I'm ignorant, but I don't see how evil can be both purely subjective AND purely objective.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Deviate
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: dblaney]
#5496386 - 04/09/06 12:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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i never said evil was subjective. the confusion lies over how is evil is defined.
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dblaney
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Deviate]
#5496418 - 04/09/06 12:25 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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the word "evil" is an interpretation
I interpreted that to mean that evil was subjective. Guess my own interpretation was faulty 
How do you define evil?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Deviate
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: dblaney]
#5496446 - 04/09/06 12:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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i haven't come up with a fully working definiton yet but i define it as that which is not sustainable. for example lets say you have a cornfield and in the spring everyone plants their corn. when the corn ripens one person who didn't plant any corn comes and steals corn from several of the people who did. this is evil because if everyone did what he did, society would not be able to function and would eventually self-destruct. so evil is the misuse of energy. what i'm still confused over is this: suppose someone went into the corn field and just killed all the corn out of love for destruction, is that different from the scenario? is it a greater degree of evil?
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dblaney
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Deviate]
#5496500 - 04/09/06 01:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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this is evil because if everyone did what he did, society would not be able to function and would eventually self-destruct.
Ah! Kant's Categorical Imperative "Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it would become a universal law."
suppose someone went into the corn field and just killed all the corn out of love for destruction, is that different from the scenario?
I'd say that indeed, intention plays a role in the interpretation of an action as evil or not.
Here though, check out some of the criticisms of Kant's theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_Imperative#Normative_criticism
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fireworks_god
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Deviate]
#5496552 - 04/09/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: i haven't come up with a fully working definiton yet but i define it as that which is not sustainable. for example lets say you have a cornfield and in the spring everyone plants their corn. when the corn ripens one person who didn't plant any corn comes and steals corn from several of the people who did. this is evil because if everyone did what he did, society would not be able to function and would eventually self-destruct. so evil is the misuse of energy. what i'm still confused over is this: suppose someone went into the corn field and just killed all the corn out of love for destruction, is that different from the scenario? is it a greater degree of evil?
I'd personally suggest that such a term "evil" does not represent any aspect of reality itself, and is simply just a reference to a vauge, subjective definition of what actions one does not prefer.
For example, your cornfield example is not evil. It is simply what it is. From other perspectives, it could be classified as "good". To a Native American who recognizes that land as being a holy site of power, destroying the cornfield would be an act of reclaiming the land and allowing it to grow naturally. From that perspective, it would surely be a good act.
Evil is not inherent within reality itself, and to claim that it is would require a demonstration that it actually is. Interpreting actions through such a limited sense of categorization certainly is not productive, and will not reveal the nature of reality for what it is - it is simply that which it is. 
Defining evil as the "misuse of energy" means that one must define what is proper usage of energy and what is improper use of energy. How can one know which is proper usage of energy and which is not? We've brought this into an even deeper realm of subjective meaning!
As no objective textbook that proclaims what is proper usage of energy and what is not exists, we cannot state that there is an objective sense of evil.
There is energy, and there is action. That is enough.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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dblaney
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I'd personally suggest that such a term "evil" does not represent any aspect of reality itself, and is simply just a reference to a vauge, subjective definition of what actions one does not prefer.
I'd personally agree with you completely. Evil is a subjective interpretation, and your example with the native american is very valid.
However it is obvious that there has to be some common ground on what is considered 'evil' in order for a society to function, thus in most societies the leaders determine what is evil (generally based on their own desires and opinions). In a true democracy, the majority of a society would determine what is considered good and evil.
One issue I think this raises, especially in a society with so many varying and even opposing interests, is the question of what basic set of rules should be in place in order to ensure security for all?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Deviate
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: dblaney]
#5496620 - 04/09/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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" I'd personally suggest that such a term "evil" does not represent any aspect of reality itself, and is simply just a reference to a vauge, subjective definition of what actions one does not prefer.
For example, your cornfield example is not evil. It is simply what it is. From other perspectives, it could be classified as "good". To a Native American who recognizes that land as being a holy site of power, destroying the cornfield would be an act of reclaiming the land and allowing it to grow naturally. From that perspective, it would surely be a good act.
Evil is not inherent within reality itself, and to claim that it is would require a demonstration that it actually is. Interpreting actions through such a limited sense of categorization certainly is not productive, and will not reveal the nature of reality for what it is - it is simply that which it is.
Defining evil as the "misuse of energy" means that one must define what is proper usage of energy and what is improper use of energy. How can one know which is proper usage of energy and which is not? We've brought this into an even deeper realm of subjective meaning!
As no objective textbook that proclaims what is proper usage of energy and what is not exists, we cannot state that there is an objective sense of evil.
There is energy, and there is action. That is enough. "
no, because intention plays a roll. i never claimed the action of destroying a cornfield was itself evil. suppose the corn was infected with a disease that could spread to other corn and the only way to stop it was to destroy the cornfield? you see what i mean. i only used that as an example of the manifestation of an "evil" intention.
Edited by Deviate (04/09/06 01:38 PM)
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fireworks_god
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: dblaney]
#5496626 - 04/09/06 01:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: However it is obvious that there has to be some common ground on what is considered 'evil' in order for a society to function, thus in most societies the leaders determine what is evil (generally based on their own desires and opinions). In a true democracy, the majority of a society would determine what is considered good and evil.
It is obvious to me that such categorization is useless. There doesn't need to be any common ground on an abstract concept that doesn't reflect reality!
If you want a mechanism by which to gauge whether or not one should endeavor in a certain action, simply see to it that such an action does not harm others. No meaningless terms thrown around!
Quote:
One issue I think this raises, especially in a society with so many varying and even opposing interests, is the question of what basic set of rules should be in place in order to ensure security for all?
Don't harm others? 
That isn't going to work much better, but at least its a start.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Deviate
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: dblaney]
#5496630 - 04/09/06 01:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: this is evil because if everyone did what he did, society would not be able to function and would eventually self-destruct.
Ah! Kant's Categorical Imperative "Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it would become a universal law."
suppose someone went into the corn field and just killed all the corn out of love for destruction, is that different from the scenario?
I'd say that indeed, intention plays a role in the interpretation of an action as evil or not.
Here though, check out some of the criticisms of Kant's theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_Imperative#Normative_criticism
wikipedia isn't working for me right now
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Deviate
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Deviate]
#5496638 - 04/09/06 01:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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" It is obvious to me that such categorization is useless. There doesn't need to be any common ground on an abstract concept that doesn't reflect reality!
If you want a mechanism by which to gauge whether or not one should endeavor in a certain action, simply see to it that such an action does not harm others. No meaningless terms thrown around! "
that suffers from the same problems as my position. for example what if your country is at war? do you refuse to fight as to not harm others and allow your country to taken over or do you go out and kill as many people as you can in order to defend it? i could further argue that harm is a subjective term. remember, " There is energy, and there is action. That is enough. " according to you it would seem there is no objective bases for determining what is harmful.
Edited by Deviate (04/09/06 01:47 PM)
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dblaney
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Don't harm others?
While I agree that would be the ideal, the question becomes how would one determine whether an action harms another? For instance, what X interprets as harming another, Y may interpret as being very beneficial. Hitler, for example, thought that the Jews were harming the entire world because of their very nature, so he tried to eradicate them.
Also the question of inflicting some level of harm as a means to a 'good' end must be raised.
Lastly, say, hypothetically, Person A were in a situation where a terrorist was about to kill A's mother. However, A had the ability to kill the terrorist before his mother was killed. Going from the rule "don't harm others", what should he do, since killing the terrorist would certainly harm him and probably his loved ones, yet not killing him would harm A's mother and A himself.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fireworks_god
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Deviate]
#5496671 - 04/09/06 01:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: that suffers from the same problems as my position. for example what if your country is at war? do you refuse to fight as to not harm others and allow your country to taken over or do you go out and kill as many people as you can in order to defend it? i could further argue that harm is a subjective term.
Quote:
fireworks_god said: That isn't going to work much better, but at least its a start.
Do not harm others. Those taking over one's country would thus be harming others, eh?
Quote:
remember, " There is energy, and there is action. That is enough. " according to you it would seem there is no objective bases for determining what is harmful.
That would be the truth of the matter, most certainly.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Deviate
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but good and evil are useful from concepts from the standpoint of the relative. you can't negate them by using an absolute perspective.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: dblaney]
#5496684 - 04/09/06 02:05 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: While I agree that would be the ideal, the question becomes how would one determine whether an action harms another? For instance, what X interprets as harming another, Y may interpret as being very beneficial. Hitler, for example, thought that the Jews were harming the entire world because of their very nature, so he tried to eradicate them.
I think we could rely upon our scientific method to determine which harms the life of another and what does not. For example, high levels of toxic ammonia harms fish. This can be determined and demonstrated.
Did Hitler scientificially determine that Jews were naturally harming the entire world as a result of their nature?
Quote:
Also the question of inflicting some level of harm as a means to a 'good' end must be raised.
"Do not harm others". If one were to harm another, then effective action to cease the harm would be in order. It would be accepted that it is the person who harms another who would be at fault.
Quote:
Lastly, say, hypothetically, Person A were in a situation where a terrorist was about to kill A's mother. However, A had the ability to kill the terrorist before his mother was killed. Going from the rule "don't harm others", what should he do, since killing the terrorist would certainly harm him and probably his loved ones, yet not killing him would harm A's mother and A himself.
"If one harms another, then one accepts that one will be subjected to harm". I think that helps it out a bit. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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dblaney
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Do not harm others. Those taking over one's country would thus be harming others, eh?
Indeed. Do you think it is then justified to respond to harm with harm, or should one remain always not harming others? If you are beating me to death, should I fight back and harm you, or just let you kill me?
Ideally if EVERYONE practiced that maxim, then the world would surely be safer. However I find it unlikely that this will happen anytime soon, possibly ever.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fireworks_god
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: dblaney]
#5496742 - 04/09/06 02:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: Indeed. Do you think it is then justified to respond to harm with harm, or should one remain always not harming others? If you are beating me to death, should I fight back and harm you, or just let you kill me?
I think it is justified. As I stated in the last post, if the rule is to not harm others, and someone makes the choice to harm others, actions have to be taken to stop/prevent that act of harm. In your specific situation, it would require physical harm to prevent more harm upon oneself. If someone killed another, I would not promote physical harm upon that person, but it would be necessary to go to lengths to educate that person and impose restrictions to ensure that more harm is not produced.
Quote:
Ideally if EVERYONE practiced that maxim, then the world would surely be safer. However I find it unlikely that this will happen anytime soon, possibly ever.
It is unlikely because people don't practice it.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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blaze2
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are you guys so naive that you dont realize you are in fact paraphrasing the bible?
Here is wisdom, "Those who leadeth into captivity will live in captivity, and Those who live by the sword must die by the sword." or something close to that.
You reap what you sow. People will always commit crimes of passion and need, and these are assuradly sins. However they are hardly evil. Evil is in premeditation and using Gods gift of imagination for sinful acts. War is always evil.
Evil may be perspective in petty human things, but I am of the opinion that there is a greater evil, just as someone who connects with christ consciousness will feel connected with humanity, someone who connects to the anti-christ consciousness will feel disconnected from humanity.
God, goodness, christ, these are all ideas of the brother hood of all man, anything that goes against this idea in act or ideal is part of the antichrist consciousness.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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leery11
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: blaze2]
#5500097 - 04/10/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
blaze2 said:
if there is a Christ then there must be an Anti-Christ.
peace
blaze2
how is one supposed to distinguish between the two when we're talking about human beings?
I mean, I was posessed friday night, and I'm trying to determine whether it was delusion, imagination, evil, or good. Christ or Satan. Because of the issue of dualities, I do not see how there can be a true Christ/Satan as a BEING.... rather they are archetypes and in that way identifying with one or the other could lead to becoming that...... i.e. attaining christ-consciousness, or becoming evil.
But ... evil evil evil? Is it? I can simply trust my feelings and say that it wasn't right to me. I'm still a bit worried about it.
But let's say we use the chakra system to determine the allocation of psychic powers, shouldn't it be that anyone with an open third eye or even any of the upper chakras be purified enough so that they CANNOT use those powers to harm other people?
Was I simply rejecting ego loss? ah I mean. It's confoundingly confusing.
I mean I want to trust that this human being is trying to help others but at the same time I see him as a vehicle of corruption based upon this experience.... but paradoxically it seems that he wanted my third eye open.
I sound a loon perhaps. It sucks. Does anyone have any advice on how to re-establish your own identity/sever ties from other "psychic" influences? The only thing I can think is establish a firm root foundation so that I feel solidified and that I'm a real tangible person.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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psyka
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: leery11]
#5500112 - 04/10/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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My Christ consciousness is far more grandeur than yours.
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.

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blaze2
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: psyka]
#5503752 - 04/11/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
how is one supposed to distinguish between the two when we're talking about human beings?
What are your unsure or scared of? Are you afraid your workign for the anti-christ unknowingly? He is the great deciever after all, or is it that you wont be able to tell who is? or maybe both?
The fact that you worry about that at all should prove to you that you are not working for the anti-christ. For it shows concern for others and yourself to be better people. that you CHOOSE that you want to be a good person is enough. With God you are allways welcome hes always ready to forget the past, but only through a christ like consciousness does one learn to forgive all mistakes of others as God always forgives you.
Someone who is tuned into the antichrist consciousness doesnt give a fuck about anyone else, he is filled with greed and lust, but most of all he has turned his back on God. He is stubborn in this most of all. Tho its possible he's usually not a devil worshipper. Usually he is a non worshipper. Not that he doesnt believe in God of course just that he hates him. The worst part is that in society hes probrobly more respected than anyone on this board.
Its pretty much that simple ask to be forgiven, and at the same time forgive others, or else your working for the other guy wheather you think you are or not.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
Edited by blaze2 (04/11/06 02:12 PM)
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Basilides
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: blaze2]
#5503771 - 04/11/06 02:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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How can someone believe in God and hate Him at the same time? Belief in God, and transcending with a faith stance is an act of love and devotion to God.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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blaze2
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Basilides]
#5503806 - 04/11/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Its quite possible, they believe in God, but have been through so much shit that they do not believe he will help them anymore, that he is puposefully making their lives horrible. there is a bible story in this theme let me find it.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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blaze2
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: blaze2]
#5503823 - 04/11/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Job 1 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain
Job 1 1There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
2And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
3His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
4And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
5And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
13And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
14And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:
15And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
16While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
17While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
18While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
19And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
20Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
21And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
22In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
This is the first chapter of teh Book of Job I wont post the whole thing but here you see him before he turns his back on God.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: Christ consciousness. [Re: Basilides]
#5504810 - 04/11/06 06:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Basilides said: How can someone believe in God and hate Him at the same time? Belief in God, and transcending with a faith stance is an act of love and devotion to God.
It's sometimes referred to as The Ahab Complex. Remember the Star Trek film 'The Wrath of Khan?' Khan had a copy of Melville's Moby Dick on his shelf on that prison-planet, identified with Ahab and quoted him ("...from Hell's heart I stab at thee whale!...") while he attacked the Enterprise. Moby Dick - the White Whale - symbolized God for Melville in the book. Ahab had been wounded, crippled by Moby Dick - had his leg bitten off. Khan lost his beloved wife. Both Ahab and Khan (in which the Enterprise took on the godlike qualities that the White Whale had) had belief and hatred ("the devil believes and trembles"). Both had a pathological inflation that took on very God - and lost of course.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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