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Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
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Cerius
Space Cowboy


Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 297
Last seen: 7 years, 11 days
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: deeptraveller]
#6254856 - 11/06/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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This might be a stupid question...but why can't one use just use distilled h20 as a solvent? I realize that it'll prolly extract unwanted nasties...but I've noticed this "debate" over the effectiveness of methanol/ethanol/water and how well each can be used. sure, the psilocybin could be harmed via heat to evap the water, but you could just let it sit and evap naturally... could someone explain why using ethanol is the preferred solvent?
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Neurogenesis
Chemical Engineer


Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 76
Last seen: 13 years, 27 days
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: Cerius]
#6255376 - 11/06/06 08:57 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Most likely because ethanol won't make you blind if you screw up the evaporation. I would imagine that a 3:1 bipolar mixture would work well; mabye bacardi 151?
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: Neurogenesis]
#6256057 - 11/07/06 12:55 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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> How you consider? Whether ph=8 represents some danger to a mucous membrane of a human body?
No. pH 8 should be fine, but it depends on the type of base. Strong bases are not good for you. On the other hand it would take only a small amount of strong base to hit pH 8 so it shouldn't present much of a danger.
-FF
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Cerius
Space Cowboy


Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 297
Last seen: 7 years, 11 days
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: Neurogenesis]
#6257677 - 11/07/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Water doesn't make you blind. If the question was answer, could someone put it in lamen for a...lamen such as I?
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shirley knott
not my real name

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: Cerius]
#6257960 - 11/07/06 03:40 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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methanol makes you go blind. and it's 'layman', as in 'non-medic'
-------------------- buh
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Cerius
Space Cowboy


Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 297
Last seen: 7 years, 11 days
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: shirley knott]
#6258422 - 11/07/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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....i already knew methanol causes blindness. ..my main question is about water.
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deeptraveller
Stranger

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 102
Loc: russia
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: Cerius]
#6262258 - 11/08/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ethanol more aggressive solvent than water, to it is easier to penetrate into a mushrooms.(i think) And it has lower temperature of boiling! You can use water if you want, but I think that Keller's reaction will longer allow to receive positive result to you - it is more likely a minus than plus (during boiling a lot of molecules of psilocy(bi)n will collide air and will lose the potentiality)
when the surgeon sterilize hands, he uses 140 proof, but not 190.... it speaks that 140 proof will penetrate into depth of a skin and kills bacteria there........but 190 proof are sterilized only with a surface of a skin...I do not know that better.... but I am pleased with this way it allows to store). I done not interested with pure substances...I am interested with a concentrate convenient for storage. And that do you want? Make experiments as we and choose the best for you.
Someone speaks to use 140proof for extraction of psilocy(bi)n.... But someone insists that it is necessary to use 190
I want to suggest to use gas for extraction. Now I prepare for photos of process (I have experience).... but it is not panacea(now I don't know as gas with psilocy(bi)n will react, but I can assume that except for extraction of any reaction will not take place)....I so made only with marihuana (reaction works 100 %)...the end-product possesses insignificant toxicity
-------------------- we makes only that we makes...... this is very amusing idea if you under mushrooms_try this if you are not afraid I have told it or have thought?
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shirley knott
not my real name

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: deeptraveller]
#6262500 - 11/08/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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sounds fascinating, traveller 
i wanna see and read about your gaseous extraction
-------------------- buh
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McJosh13
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 11
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Edited
Edited by McJosh13 (06/19/07 11:12 AM)
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: McJosh13]
#6264303 - 11/09/06 05:42 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Good to see that you're still around! Your idea to use EDTA was brilliant. It has several properties that make it an ideal preservative in this case.
An alkaline environment is best for forming the Y4- form, but it should still dissolve at lower a pH. It should just take longer to dissolve.
EDTA has a strong affinity for chelating iron. I think both the Y3- and Y4- form will chelate iron. I remember doing a lot of tedious calculations to figure the amount of Y4- form at different pH in quant. Anyhow, I think it should work like a champ even at neutral pH. There shouldn't be that high of a metal ion concentration and EDTA is cheap and safe enough to use in good concentration.
One thing to note is that ascorbic acid can act as an oxidant in high enough concentrations. So if you use ascorbic acid it should be in low amounts, which would also be good to avoid lowering the pH too much if you're also going to use EDTA.
One thing I would be really interested in would be to see if EDTA can prevent or reverse the bluing reaction similar to ascorbic acid. That would be a good experiment to try.
-FF
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McJosh13
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 11
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Edited
Edited by McJosh13 (06/19/07 11:11 AM)
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: McJosh13]
#6265432 - 11/09/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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That would be interesting, but probably a bit too time consuming. Drying doesn't seem to be all that destructive if bluing is a good indicator. Most of the oxidation seems to come from damaged tissue and ruptured cells, probably as a result of released phosphatase and/or oxidation from exposure to air.
If I were trying to get maximum extraction efficiency I would prepare your solvent, add some EDTA and/or ascorbic acid, then simply harvest the fruits and drop them into the solvent as you go. Then just blend them up well, extract for about 2 hours with stirring, then recover your product. That should work fine for any aqueous extraction, you might even figure in the water content of the fruits into your solvent concentration if you like to be precise.
As for dissolving the EDTA... I cracked a chem book to find out, but it didn't have much info on solubility at pH. It did list using 0.1M EDTA at pH 6.0, so it's at least that soluble. One thing to remember is that the EDTA will lower the pH, so it's possible that the EDTA itself lowered the pH too much to continue dissolving. Even at a pH of 10 it takes awhile (sometimes ~10 min) to dissolve, so you might try giving it a good hour or so.
There are definitely some sizable advances in extraction methods possible. I like the idea of using a preservative during the extraction. I also think crashing out some of the biogunk is worthwhile to investigate. I always thought making blotter would be really cool. With a good extraction/preservation method it just might be possible. In another thread I saw some good ideas about making windowpane and I also suggested that jello/agar shots or squares might work well.
-FF
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Cerius
Space Cowboy


Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 297
Last seen: 7 years, 11 days
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: fastfred]
#6266053 - 11/09/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm planning on doing the windowpane and the agar/jello thing as soon as I get this harvest. I'll be sure to post here. My question: What ration should the EDTA and absorbic acid be to the solvent? And how would I regulate the ph?
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deeptraveller
Stranger

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 102
Loc: russia
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: Cerius]
#6274622 - 11/12/06 07:21 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have finished all necessary preparations.....not later than in 4-5 hours I shall lay out photos and I shall describe extraction (i think that results are interesting)
p\s\the opinion of the chemist will be very important(I am not the chemist)
-------------------- we makes only that we makes...... this is very amusing idea if you under mushrooms_try this if you are not afraid I have told it or have thought?
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deeptraveller
Stranger

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 102
Loc: russia
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: deeptraveller]
#6275621 - 11/12/06 02:32 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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who has become interested:
http://dump.ru/files/5/5315815/
password for downloads is:
deeptraveller
p\s\ the file is the document of Word and contains in zip archive(its size 1,2mb). I have checked up you can download it without problems. Simply enter the password into the only a suitable window for this purpose.
-------------------- we makes only that we makes...... this is very amusing idea if you under mushrooms_try this if you are not afraid I have told it or have thought?
Edited by deeptraveller (11/12/06 02:46 PM)
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: deeptraveller]
#6276558 - 11/12/06 07:03 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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> What ration should the EDTA and absorbic acid be to the solvent?
That's a good question. You could look up the iron content in mushrooms, but you wouldn't be able to account for matrix effects. So the only way to really find out would be to do an actual titration and use an iron indicator to find out exactly how much EDTA is needed. Another way would be to simply determine how much EDTA you would like in the end product and add enough to produce the correct final product.
I wouldn't use much EDTA. It would probably be best to start with about .01 M EDTA in your solvent. EDTA MW=292.2 so .01M would be about 3g per liter. But you wouldn't want 3g of EDTA in your end product so I would probably use only 1g/L.
As for the ascorbic acid just use a tiny bit. It's quite effective. I would figure .25-.5g/L would be enough. Just start low and if any bluing occurs add a tiny bit more.
> And how would I regulate the ph?
Both EDTA and ascorbic acid will lower the pH. That is good, you want a slightly lower pH because alkaline environments degrade psilocin. I wouldn't worry about the pH. Neither EDTA or ascorbic acid are strong acids so they won't lower it all that much.
-FF
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deeptraveller
Stranger

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 102
Loc: russia
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: fastfred]
#6277952 - 11/13/06 03:42 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Guys do not regret 1mb.... download my file. I have spent a lot of time for its creation.. It is my gift to all good people!
I could not place a photo at this forum and only therefore have created a special file. Protection by the password is established to not have consequences in Russia
I write a text part of my extraction (explaining photos are in a file):
-= VERY COLD EXTRACTION FROM RUSSIA ver0.0 =-
I do not apply for the invention of this method of extraction...Let's tell so: it has dreamed to me :^) Probably you could meet the similar information, but the information is one, and the instruction - absolutely another
All that is necessary to you for extraction: Powder of mushrooms Gas (butane which lighters fill...less impurity in your gas, the better) -Syringe -Knife -Sewed -Small jar -Warm water in a glass -And certainly this instruction
Step 1: Check of your gas on presence of impurity
Step 2: Take out the piston from your syringe and fill it by mushrooms powder(press on a powder so strongly as your hands can...for pressing a powder it is possible to use the piston from a syringe of smaller volume)
step 3: Then to cut off a part of the piston of a syringe as it is shown on a photo and pierced in this part four small holes(Time which gas will cooperate with a mushroom powder depends on diameter of holes.... and also the quantity of gas, which you will be to spend, depends on them )
step 4: We use napkins and cotton wool as shown in a photo for manufacturing the filter(use twice more layers than in a photo. Certainly you can use special filters, but I think that napkins and cotton wool is much better..It is a creative part.... Cleanliness of extraction, and quantity of butane which you will spend, depends on quantity of layers).
step 5: Connect all parts of a syringe as shown in a photo(before finally connecting all parts you should look that the cut off part of the piston of a syringe is at an identical level with a throat of the syringe. If it not so then add on your choice: a powder of mushrooms, napkins or cotton wool.)
step 6: To cut off a nose of a syringe so, that could enter the tip from a gas bag in it(The density of connection is an important point... gas should not leave through a junction with a syringe)
step 7: Attention! I recommend to you to go on a balcony or there where you will be surrounded with fresh air. Do not smoke and do not play a wheel of your lighter..... Forbid to do it to your spectators! Use glasses for your eyes, for that what to protect them from possible plastic splinters which can fly away under pressure of gas from a syringe of parts(Reaction is not so dangerous.... It is possible to make it and in a room, but I will recommend to you to not play with your destiny)
step 8: Press one of the ends of a syringe against a bottom small banks as shown in a photo.... It is necessary that under pressure of gas the filter and a piece of the piston of a syringe would not fly off
step 9: Insert a cylinder into a syringe as on a photo
step 10: One hand press a syringe to small jar (hold a syringe perpendicularly, do not incline)
step 11: Other hand press a cylinder with gas downwards.... Gas will start to fill in a syringe.
step 12: You will see as gas is distributed in a syringe, cease to press a cylinder with gas as soon as gas will reach the bottom part of a syringe. After gas will start to flow in bank add a gas in a syringe by short pressing on a cylinder with gas. On this step depends how many you will spend your gas (save your money...to not begin to rock too much..... The more gas you pass through a powder of mushrooms, the it is more than impurity from gas will get in your extraction). For full extraction of 20ml syringe a mushroom powder it is enough to let out in a syringe of 1/5 parts of gas from a cylinder or less(this is my opinion). During extraction all subjects which participate in extraction, will be strongly cooled and become covered by hoarfrost(But you will not freeze your hands...will simply feel a cold, it will not cause to you damage)
step 13: Put your jar with gas in a glass with warm water from under the water crane as on a photo.
step 14: When gas will leave you receive absolutely drycrystals or salts(until as I have evaporated all gas available in my jars I have added a little water and 190 proof in a jar...but about it later)..... It is pure substances!(And I think that it is safe for health... I smoked marihuana prepared on this instruction, During smoking I did not feel any extraneous smells!) I shall be glad to receive any help from anyone for a correcting of the text to normal english language and accommodations of my photos with the instruction at a forum
p\s\This way allows to prepare very strong pitch from a plenty of weak marihuana
p\p\s\I think, the professor Fanaticus can go to have a rest together with own 190proof
-------------------- we makes only that we makes...... this is very amusing idea if you under mushrooms_try this if you are not afraid I have told it or have thought?
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shirley knott
not my real name

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: deeptraveller]
#6278280 - 11/13/06 09:54 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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great stuff, traveller 
i enjoyed your write-up and photos, and it looks like fun. did you ever try to test the powder after extraction, to see what remained?
-------------------- buh
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deeptraveller
Stranger

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 102
Loc: russia
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: shirley knott]
#6278750 - 11/13/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have found two old references about this extraction:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1836697 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3118873
noone of them hasn't a practical substantiations
I did not test still a powder after extraction, but I shall necessarily make it as soon as I shall find reactants(it is very interesting to myself to find out remained in them something or not...I did not trouble myself with long expectations and have finished extraction in 5 minutes after beginnings of it, but I think that it should be quite enough... I was based on experience).
...in any case someone should execute this experiment...
now I can only promise make the test about which you can to guess.... I shall have a drink it. Give me couple of days please...
p\s\for extraction I used the biggest and old mushrooms but if there will be even an easy change of consciousness I shall feel it :^)
-------------------- we makes only that we makes...... this is very amusing idea if you under mushrooms_try this if you are not afraid I have told it or have thought?
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MattEx
Psychonaut

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 110
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: (psilocybin / psilocin extraction) - potion complete [Re: deeptraveller]
#6280329 - 11/13/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nice, subcritical butane extraction . This would extract only psilocin, not it's phosphate ester psilocybin i'm guessing?. Guess that's better for a subjective test .
That very same method (almost scary in the similarity of how I did it actually; I used a berocca tablet bottle instead of a syringe) works beautifully in making honey oil from junk pot too !
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