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Offlinekiyote
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: blahblahblah]
    #9832052 - 02/20/09 10:42 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Don't think that we're not interested!  I've been following this closely.  I've been thinking about this extraction process for a while now to conserve space.  Let me know how it goes!


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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: blahblahblah]
    #9884260 - 02/28/09 02:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

My EDTA, Ascorbic Acid, and micro gram scale are here now. If anyone out there has any experiments they would like to see, let me know. I am going to do a test with the ascorbic acid to see if the reverse bluing observed with ascorbic acid is the reversal of the oxidization of psilocin or altering of the indigo in another way.

Press on.


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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: kiyote]
    #9884275 - 02/28/09 02:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ethanol works as long as you are going to keep the extract in liquid form or as a goo. Be careful with the goo, undernose and I both had our goo develop mold. It would be best to pack the goo in gelcaps and/or place it in the freezer.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: blahblahblah]
    #9884809 - 02/28/09 04:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I am going to do a test with the ascorbic acid to see if the reverse bluing observed with ascorbic acid is the reversal of the oxidization of psilocin or altering of the indigo in another way.




What's your plan for doing that?  I've noticed that it will oxidize all the way to black, so I'm guessing that it perhaps oxidizes twice.

It's good that you're going to try an EDTA experiment.  We used to speculate that by chelating the iron or other required ions the phosphatase enzymes would be inactivated.  There is some related literature on the subject.


-FF


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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: fastfred]
    #9895384 - 03/02/09 11:13 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I planned to take 3 equal portions of the same batch of fresh mushrooms, and combine them with either 92% ethanol or straight water, like so...

#1. Straight Alcohol or water
#2. Solution of ascorbic acid in water or ethanol, dissolved before adding mushrooms
#3. Solution of ascorbic acid in water or ethanol, dissolved after adding mushrooms (say 24 hours later)

Ascorbic acid is "readily soluble in water (33g/100ml @ 25C ), less soluble in 95% ethanol (3.3g/100ml), absolute ethanol (2g/100ml), acetic acid (0.2g/100ml)...." reference link
It seems water would be best for this test.

For an accurate test, it seems like it would be best to dephosphorylate psilocybin first to get the highest concentration of psilocin in the extractions (so when tested, the psilocybin won't affect the results). Perhaps I do the same as above, but heat the extracts first and then add the ascorbic acid upon cooling. The concentration of ascorbic acid would also need to be tested. I would think adding until the bluing reverses. Possibly testing on small single extract first, until I find the correct amount to reverse the bluing, and then work from there.

I need to wait for some fresh mushrooms so this is an open discussion until then.


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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: blahblahblah]
    #9897649 - 03/02/09 06:07 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I would suggest using acetic acid as your extraction solvent.  It has been reported in the literature that heating (30 min I think) will completely dephosphorylate the psilocybin to psilocin.

As far as the amount of ascorbic to add... It's a very small amount.  Something along the lines of 1 knifetip will easily do 50 ml with perhaps a gram ground in it.  It's such a small amount that I never really tried titrating it since the smallest amount added would always do the trick.

You want to add the smallest amount that resolves the bluing.  It shouldn't be an issue unless you add way too much, so I would just add a knifetip at a time until the bluing resolves.  I don't see how you could under or over do it that way.

Good luck and be sure to report your results.


-FF


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OfflineAmatoxicated
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: thenewguy05]
    #9908264 - 03/04/09 03:31 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I remember drinking the stuff with redneck buddies in Tennessee, I also remember other rednecks razzing on them for not just drinking moonshine. That was about the time I learned how to make moonshine.

You can buy Everclear here in Cali but for some ass backwards reason it is only 151 proof.

Whenever I make an extract I use moonshine, haven't tried a Psilocybin extract yet, it is on the list though.


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InvisibleDragonaut
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: Amatoxicated]
    #10330844 - 05/13/09 04:54 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

So, is the gunk that collects on the bottom of the vessel inactive and just fats? Do the actives stay in suspension until seeded out, or will they form crystals once the liquor starts to become overly concentrated?


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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. (moved) [Re: hIgHdRoLoVeR]
    #10331546 - 05/13/09 11:32 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

This thread was moved from Advanced Mycology.

Reason:
PF was wrong.  The 'crystals' are useless salts. 

I know this is an old and should be dead thread, but anything related to extraction is not about mycology at all and is seriously off topic in advanced mycology.
RR


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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. (moved) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10331795 - 05/13/09 01:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Extraction is quite related to mycology.  You can't analyze anything until you extract it first. 

What use is mycology if you can't discuss ANY aspect of it's biochemistry?

That's not mycology at all, that's just playing with fungi.

Take a look in the journals!  +95% of the papers involve an extraction!

RR seems to want to drag 'advanced mycology' down to a high school level just because he has no (bio)chemistry background.  WTF?

Extraction isn't related to any sort of experience so it's completely wrong to dump it in that forum.  He could at least move it to the chemistry forum, which would be more appropriate.


-FF


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InvisibleDragonaut
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. (moved) [Re: fastfred]
    #10331912 - 05/13/09 01:38 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I agree, fastfred.

Could someone address my questions, please?


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OfflineYrat
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. (moved) [Re: Dragonaut]
    #10355362 - 05/17/09 10:12 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

had a friend try this out today, i am reposting from another thread on the interweb

Quote:


51.0 grams of penis envy were ground up.  a couple spatula tips' worth of ascorbic acid was added.  EDTA was also available, but was not used due to activity of phosphatase enzymes being highly unlikely in methanol.



to this, 500mL of 100% methanol was added



this mixture was heated to boiling, the liquid was filtered off, and the solid was washed with an additional 500mL MeOH, followed by filtration

the resulting solution appeared as a yellowish color as commonly seen.



the solution was evaporated to dryness, leaving behind a combination of a yellow crystalline product, and a darker molasses-like "resin" which hardened considerably after cooling to room temp.





solids (crystalline) were scraped from flask and weighed, just over 2g recovered.



an additional 1g of the "resin" was also able to be scraped out with some effort.

20mL of everclear was added to the crystalline product, 20mL was also added to the 1g of "resin" product. 




bioassays have not yet been undertaken.






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OfflineIndridcold
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: hIgHdRoLoVeR]
    #12636198 - 05/27/10 04:14 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Actually i believe this could work if you were to place you liquid in a container with the desiccant, and fill the container with another gas that wouldnt allow oxidation, just a thought may not help..


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OfflineMoshrooms
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: Indridcold]
    #12734754 - 06/13/10 08:15 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

A method of extraction that I've heard of being used with success a few times now:

The person who told me never tried to go further and make a salt, but s/he says the liquid is easily consumed. This method uses household materials and citric acid(from lemon/lime).

Dry mushrooms

-> Pulverize them

-> Mix them up with appropriate pH water/lemon(or lime) juice combination in an airtight bottle.

-> Shake.

-> Keep shaking every 30 min or so for a few hours.

-> Leave refrigerated overnight.

-> Shake when using the refrigerator or when there's time.

-> Repeat for a week (s/he says s/he's not sure about the rate of extraction and that s/he hasn't been able to see any difference in potency between 3 days, a week and two weeks).

-> Pour from one bottle to another through some type of filter to get rid of garbage mushroom material.

-> Voila. Lemon juice loaded with psilocin. S/he says s/he sometimes mixes with sugar right before drinking, to give the juice a more pleasant taste.


From this i understand the ready product s/he has made has the following


Pros:

-Easy. Anyone can do this with readily available household materials.
-Relatively pleasant taste once garbage is filtered out.
-Liquid form. Readily absorbed by the body.


Cons:
-Liquid form. Shorter shelf life than solids.
-Slightly lower potency than more sophisticated extraction methods?
-Takes time to finish if to maximize extraction.


To dos:

-What's the next step?
-Find out the optimal pH for extraction. A pH of around 1-2 has been used each time that i have registered.


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Offlinedeep_child
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12767246 - 06/19/10 03:00 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Several people have used isopropyl alcohol, but it's poisonous so you have to evaporate all of it off, and then the crystals seem to break down in the air and become much less active.  RR




A couple of simple questions regarding "Extraction".  I have spent hours searching and perusing many of the threads and not seen these questions addressed.

I'm not particularly concerned about obtaining "pure crystals" or anything, just removing as much of the mushroom tissue as possible whilst preseving the essence, as eating the biomass really doesnt agree with my stomach.

"Everclear" is not available anywhere here Downunder that I can find.  I have found "Spirytus" 190 proof polish vodka, but its $120/Litre!  - not really something I want to be evaporating away if I can avoid it.

I can get 99.953% "Pure Anhydrous Isopropyl Alcohol" (used to clean Circuit Boards for about $20/litre from an Electronics Supply place.

I read that extraction to dry crystals will result in faster oxidation and reduction in potency..  However, when using Isopropyl as a solvent, one *must* evap all of it as you dont want to be drinking it.

Could I use the cheaper Iso-Alcohol for the soak/extraction/Evaporation process to dry crystals and *then* re-disolve them in however many mls of the Spirytus for long-term storage, without significant breakdown occuring in the short period (hours ?)they would be existing as dry crystals ?  How fast do they break down at room temp when dry crystals ?

I bought some Vinegar as well to dry on a different batch, but I cant seem to find much of a consensus on whether this will increase breakdown or not either.  I'm thinking of doing a second pass of the iso-soaked material with vinegar and then evap'ing that down to dry(ish) goo, and mixing that in with the residue from the Iso, then adding Ethanol.  Is this a good idea or should I keep them seperate ?

I would appreciate any experienced opinions


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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: deep_child]
    #12772731 - 06/20/10 11:31 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

you could use Iso but you will lose a lot of potency when you evaporate. Vinegar is efficient at extracting the goods but potency breaks down pretty quickly. also vinegar plays havoc on the stomach. I don't recommend it. =@
look up Freeze Distillation. pretty easy to concentrate any weak alc% product.

rule of thumb- h2o is the enemy of psilo preservation


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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: S33D]
    #12774111 - 06/20/10 05:11 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

> vinegar plays havoc on the stomach. I don't recommend it.

Lot's of people drink a shot of it a day for its purported health benefits.  Certainly nothing wrong with consuming some of it.  I've never heard anyone claim that vinegar based salad dressing causes any stomach problems.

> "Everclear" is not available anywhere here Downunder that I can find.

Just distill it yourself.  You can produce it for about $2/gallon.  Just get some sugar, water, and some turbo yeast.  Ferment it, then distill it.  You can make a "wok still" or just get some copper tubing and a few plumbing supplies from the hardware store to make your still.

If they're trying to sell that shit for $120/L then you could probably make a fortune selling moonshine down there.  I'm going off of Wiccan seeker's advice here.  He's posted plenty in C&P here on the topic.  It might have been $2/L, rather than gal., but that's still a 60X markup.

Always use some ascorbic acid in your mix to reduce oxidation.

You can use iso if you want.  The lethality is way overblown.  The LD50, based from rats, would be about 8 shots of it.  That's likely a bit lower for humans, but you'd at least have to drink several shots to have a significant chance of dying.

Ethanol is miscible with IPA so... I would do the extraction with iso, evap down until there's just enough to cover any precipitate, redilute with EtOH (perhaps about 3X), then evap down to the minimum volume before dryness, then redilute to the desired volume.  No significant amount of IPA should be left in the mix.


-FF


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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: fastfred]
    #12774181 - 06/20/10 05:24 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

thank you OP for making this thread


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Offlinedeep_child
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: Scudreloaded]
    #12776083 - 06/20/10 11:48 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks Fred.. :smile:

I've got about 50g of dry stuff to play with so far, I think I'll try several different extracts in 10g batches and see how they compare.

1. Straight ethanol only
2. ISA then Eth as you suggested.
3. Vinegar evap'ed then Eth to store it
4. Perhaps follow up 1&2 with vinegar on the remains to see if it pulls anything out that the Eth/Isa didnt.

I'm not really inclined to setup for distilling right now, Interesting idea - but I'll leave that for later.. :smile:  I'm sure there would be additional complications to making your own hi proof booze both legally and practically :smile: 

For now I'll pony up for a half-litre bottle of the polish vodka and see how much I need to use.

> Always use some ascorbic acid in your mix to reduce oxidation.

I'll do that.  I have some "Sugarless C" Vitamin C tablets that claim to have 500mg Ascorbic Acid "with no added, yeast, gluten, preservaties or flavours".  Would they be ok ?  Roughly how many tablets to how much product ?

> You can use iso if you want.  The lethality is way overblown.

I sort of thought that.  Ive used it for cleaning electronics and stuff for 20 years with no ill effects that Ive noticed, although any fumes from it makes my lady dizzy if she comes into the workshop when I've been cleaning circuit boards - I'm not talking gallons of it though, just a few sprays and a scrub is enough to scare her off, although I dont notice anything except the solventy smell.

> extraction with iso, evap down until there's just enough to
> cover any precipitate, redilute with EtOH (perhaps about 3X),
> then evap down to the minimum volume before dryness,
> then redilute to the desired volume. 
> No significant amount of IPA should be left in the mix.

Sounds like a plan.  :smile: I'll give that a go as an option too..  Thanks again.

It will be interesting comparing the different methods for effectiveness and longevity :smile:


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OfflineFungal-one
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Re: all you need to know about psilocybin / psilocin extraction. [Re: deep_child]
    #13024680 - 08/09/10 02:27 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Well? Did you do any of those?


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