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InvisibleDiploidM
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UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant
    #5487924 - 04/06/06 11:08 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jht.../ixnewstop.html

UN Officials Find Evidence of Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant
By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 07/04/2006)

United Nations officials investigating Iran's nuclear programme say they have found convincing evidence that the Iranians are working on a secret uranium enrichment project that has not been officially declared.

Suspicions were raised after officials from the UN-sponsored International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) travelled to Pakistan at the end of last year to interview A Q Khan, the atomic scientist who masterminded the successful development of Pakistan's nuclear weapons arsenal.

Khan is known to have sold Teheran the technical expertise to develop an atomic bomb, together with key components, such as sophisticated equipment for enriching uranium. During the interview with IAEA inspectors, Khan is said to have provided a full disclosure of the nuclear dossier he gave the Iranians. The inspectors compared Khan's material against the documentation the Iranians have so far provided.

"There are a number of glaring inconsistencies between what the Iranians are telling us and the information the IAEA got from Khan," said a diplomat closely involved in the IAEA's negotiations with Teheran. "Consequently the IAEA inspectors are now convinced that the Iranians have another, small-scale uranium processing and enrichment project that is being kept secret from the outside world."

IAEA officials are trying to establish whether Iran has what they call "parallel" nuclear enrichment facilities, which they suspect are being developing at closed military bases around the country.

The current diplomatic crisis over Iran's uranium enrichment activity is centred on the uranium processing plant at Isfahan and the uranium enrichment facility at Natanz. The existence of the latter facility, which will soon have the capacity to enrich uranium to weapons grade, was unknown until Iranian exiles disclosed its location in 2003.

Both these facilities, constructed to carry out industrial-scale nuclear enrichment, have been documented by IAEA inspectors, and would be easy targets for military action if the crisis between Teheran and the UN Security Council were to worsen.

UN officials believe that the Iranians have set up a parallel enrichment project that would enable them to continue with their uranium enrichment activity in the event of their other facilities being incapacitated by military action.

Suspicions have been raised by the discovery of a facility, at an unknown location, capable of producing "green salt". Iranian officials inadvertently submitted a document about its production in their declarations to IAEA inspectors on other aspects of their nuclear programme.

Green salt is similar to uranium that has been partially processed to weapons grade and no satisfactory explanation for its production has been given by Iran's Atomic Energy Organisation.

The other discovery that caused consternation for the IAEA was a set of drawings that show the Iranians are attempting to build what has been described as an enriched uranium hemisphere, a construction that is only used in the construction of atomic weapons. Iran refused to hand over the drawings.

"It all fits into a pattern of behaviour that suggests the Iranians have something to hide," said a senior diplomat attached to the IAEA headquarters in Vienna.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Diploid]
    #5487966 - 04/06/06 11:21 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Your icon implies surprise.. Are you surprised? Im not. Whats your opnion?

I guess this begs a few questions...

Will Iran use nukes? And if so should the US retaliate? With nukes?

Personally I think Israel has the most to lose, so Israel should probably preemptively attack Iran. I know that a real unpopular idea here and elsewhere though...

Or maybe Iran is just doing this as a big bluff to gain power try to prevent a preemptive attack... Id like to think that, but unlike N. Korea, Iranian leaders have religious motives that might not care much for self preservation. They might think that nuking infidels and getting nuked back would be worth it in the end...


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: DieCommie]
    #5487996 - 04/06/06 11:29 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Your icon implies surprise.. Are you surprised?

Not in the least. The icon was sarcastic.

They might think that nuking infidels and getting nuked back would be worth it in the end

That's what scares me. Iran's leaders have a history of irrational behavior that puts mysticism and religious absurdities above even their own well-being a la suicide bombers.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (04/07/06 12:06 AM)


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Offlinedaimyo
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Registered: 05/13/04
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Diploid]
    #5488018 - 04/06/06 11:35 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Ever heard about this?


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: daimyo]
    #5488990 - 04/07/06 07:14 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

There are only two reasons why a country would want to enrich their own uranium. Naval vessel reactors, which are very small and use nearly 100% enriched u235 is one reason. Nuclear bombs is the second. Anybody that thinks Iran wants enriched uranium for anything other than a bomb is insane, gullible, or ignoring reality.

I certainly would not want to be Iran or North Korea should a terrorist group actually get ahold of and use a working nuclear weapon on US interests. The US response is inevitable, and the bombs that the US will drop in retaliation are many thousands of times more powerful than anything a terrorist could ever get their hands on. The difference in destructive force between fission and fusion is beyond belief. It wouldn't even matter if the bomb came from Iran or NK, they will still bear the brunt of retaliation. Such is the price of playing the mutually assured destruction game without the ability to destroy the opponent.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Seuss]
    #5491667 - 04/08/06 02:56 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Have we learned nothing from the lies told about Iraq?

At the very least don't take such reports at face value.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5491989 - 04/08/06 07:04 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

It isn't the report that I am going off of. I am using the science behind nuclear physics. Having been infatuated with nuclear physics as a child, I spent a lot of time as a teenager and in college studding the subject. The cost, pollution, and danger created by the enrichment process makes it impractical for a country to develop. We are talking billions of dollars. A country could easily develop a space program for the same chunk of change.

Example, why would I pay "zillions" of dollars to turn my desert into wheat fields when I can buy cheap wheat from my neighbor? Even better, my neighbor wants to buy the sand from my dessert to help prep the soil to grow their wheat.

The above illustrates the order of magnitudes of what Iran is doing. There is simply no sane reason why a country would do this unless they wanted to divert enriched uranium away from power production towards a weapons program.

With enriched uranium (or any fissile fuel for that matter), we know how much power comes out of how much weight consumed. In other words, we weight the enriched uranium before we ship it to the power plant. We then weight the spent rods when they are returned. The difference in weight should match up to the power generated by the plant. This way, we can ensure that none of the enriched uranium was diverted for weapons use. However, if Iran can enrich their own uranium, they can circumvent the above checks.

Iran's actions simply do not make sense unless you toss the weapons program into the equation at which point everything balances out. Their claims are as crazy as somebody wanting to sleep with dynamite under the bed to use as protection in case a burglar breaks in at night.

Trust me, I got burned by Bush when I fell for his lies on Iraq. It will not happen again. As far as I am concerned, every last word that comes out of the Bush administration is a lie. (Yes, I am bitter about it, but I don't appreciate the president, the taxpayers employee, lying to me.) In the case of Iran and uranium enrichment, I am using my background in nuclear physics, not Bush's propaganda/lies.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5495639 - 04/09/06 07:44 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Have we learned nothing from the lies told about Iraq?

At the very least don't take such reports at face value.


It's hard to conclude anything other than that Iran is developing nuclear weapons when Russia offers to sell them all the uranium their power plants need at subsidized prices, but Iran refuses and insist on the enormous expense of making its own.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Diploid]
    #5495775 - 04/09/06 09:25 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe. But then again if Russia offered to supply the US with all the uranium it wanted so the US had no need to make it's own would you feel comfortable with that situation?

What if 10 years from now the Russians felt like putting the price up?


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5496092 - 04/09/06 12:05 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

if Russia offered to supply the US with all the uranium it wanted so the US had no need to make it's own would you feel comfortable with that situation?

The US doesn't have it's people starving for lack of money to buy food and freezing for lack of energy. Iran does.

What if 10 years from now the Russians felt like putting the price up?

Russia and other countries offered not to do that and would have put it in writing. It's in the world's best interest that Iran doesn't have a bomb so even if Russia reneged, others would step in.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Diploid]
    #5496319 - 04/09/06 01:45 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:The US doesn't have it's people starving for lack of money to buy food and freezing for lack of energy. Iran does.


I agree but alot of people (especially on this board) do think the US has starving and freezing people.


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Diploid]
    #5496879 - 04/09/06 05:03 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

The US doesn't have it's people starving for lack of money to buy food and freezing for lack of energy.

Starvation in Iran? You sure about that?

If you just mean poor hungry cold people then the US has plenty of those.

Russia and other countries offered not to do that and would have put it in writing

Would you be happy for the US to rely on Russia for it's energy supply if Russia had "put it in writing"?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5496950 - 04/09/06 05:26 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Alex213 writes:

Quote:

Would you be happy for the US to rely on Russia for it's energy supply if Russia had "put it in writing"?




No one thinks Iran is developing uranium emrichment facilities to produce energy. Not the IAEA, not the intelligence agencies of the rest of the world, not the UN, and not even Seymour Hersh.

For a country which has the tenth largest proven reserves of oil and the second largest proven reserves of natural gas in the world to spend the tens of billions of dollars necessary to build a uranium enrichment program under the guise of "producing energy" is absurd on the face of it. So absurd, in fact, that not even the Lefties are pretending any more this isn't about atomic weaponry. Now they just say it's okay for Iran to produce atomic weaponry.





Phred


--------------------


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Phred]
    #5497096 - 04/09/06 06:17 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

No one thinks Iran is developing uranium emrichment facilities to produce energy

Source?

Or is this like "No-one thinks Iraq doesn't have WMD"?

Not the IAEA

Source?

not the intelligence agencies of the rest of the world

Three letters. WMD.

not the UN

Source?

For a country which has the tenth largest proven reserves of oil and the second largest proven reserves of natural gas in the world to spend the tens of billions of dollars necessary to build a uranium enrichment program under the guise of "producing energy" is absurd on the face of it.

How long do you think oil is going to last?

So absurd, in fact, that not even the Lefties are pretending any more this isn't about atomic weaponry

Source? Or are you just pulling this out of your favourite crevice again?


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5497378 - 04/09/06 08:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

> Or is this like "No-one thinks Iraq doesn't have WMD"?

Nope, this one is for real. Simple physics and economics. Regardless of how you lean, left or right, or how you feel about Bush, the current administration, the mess in Iraq, or the constitution that has been flushed down the toilet, if you cannot see what Iran is really doing, then you are lying to yourself. I'm not claiming this is an excuse to invade, or to impose sanctions, or anything else of that nature, but I cannot deny the simple fact that Iran wants enrichment technology so that they can produce nuclear weapons. There is nothing to debate here.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5497927 - 04/09/06 10:39 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Seymour Hersh's lengthy piece in the latest New Yorker substantiates my contention that no rational person any longer believes Iran's uranium enrichment program is about anything other than producing material for nuclear weaponry. As is well known, Hersh is no fan of the Bush administration, but in fact one of its most relentless critics.

But even Hersh doesn't pretend Iran isn't trying to build a bomb. He details the governments and agencies who have accepted that fact here --

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060417fa_fact





Phred


--------------------


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Phred]
    #5499712 - 04/10/06 02:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Well at least you didn't carry on with the stuff about the UN believing Iran is building a nuclear bomb.

As is well known, Hersh is no fan of the Bush administration, but in fact one of its most relentless critics.

He is? The last book of his I read was probably what you would term "relentless criticism" of the Kennedys. I don't think Hersh is anti-Bush anymore than he's anti-Kennedy or anti-Nixon because he wrote about My-Lai. I think he's simply a working journalist finding relevant stories of the day.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5499782 - 04/10/06 02:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Alex213 writes:

Quote:

Well at least you didn't carry on with the stuff about the UN believing Iran is building a nuclear bomb.




My bad. I meant to say the UNSC.

Seeing as how you didn't bother reading the article I linked, let me post a couple of excerpts from it. From the second paragraph --

"American and European intelligence agencies, and the International Atomic Energy Agency (I.A.E.A.), agree that Iran is intent on developing the capability to produce nuclear weapons. But there are widely differing estimates of how long that will take, and whether diplomacy, sanctions, or military action is the best way to prevent it."

From quite a bit further down in the article --

"While almost no one disputes Iran?s nuclear ambitions, there is intense debate over how soon it could get the bomb, and what to do about that."




Phred


--------------------


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Phred]
    #5499806 - 04/10/06 02:50 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

American and European intelligence agencies

As I explained earlier:

Three letters. WMD.

BTW, do you now consider Seymour Hersh the last word in truth?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: UN Officials Find Evidence of Iran's Secret Uranium Enrichment Plant [Re: Alex213]
    #5499840 - 04/10/06 03:04 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Hersh isn't the only one pointing out that no one (other than yourself, apparently) argues Iran isn't pursuing nuclear weaponry, he was just the closest one to hand. And of course it wouldn't do for me to provide you a source that might be deemed "neocon" or "right wing", let alone dare to provide a source who was once in the military. Hersh is none of those things.

I could provide a list of sources consisting of dozens of links. But it would make no difference to you anyway. You'd find some way to pooh pooh them all, because you just know that Iran wants to enrich uranium in order to provide electricity for its people.




Phred


--------------------


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