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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Immigration Vote
    #5486047 - 04/06/06 10:35 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Article
By RACHEL L. SWARNS

WASHINGTON, April 6 ? With a Republican compromise in hand, the Senate headed today toward a showdown vote on competing plans on the volatile subject of illegal immigration.

As predicted by Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader, in televised interviews this morning, a bipartisan bill approved by the Judiciary Committee failed to gain the 60 votes needed to avoid a filibuster when it is brought to the floor.

The vote to cut off debate on the bill, which would put nearly all of the nation's estimated 11 million illegal immigrants on a path toward citizenship, a provision that has been denounced by its opponents as offering "amnesty," failed by a wide margin ? 60 no votes to 39 in favor.

Mr. Frist said the Senate would then take up the new compromise, reached late Wednesday night by a group of Republicans.

But while the compromise was endorsed by Mr. Frist, a Republican of Tennessee, it did not have the commitment of all Republicans, much less Democrats.

As described by Mr. Frist in the interviews, the compromise would place illegal immigrants in three categories:

?Those who have lived in the country at least five years would be put on a path toward guaranteed citizenship, provided that they remained employed, paid fines and back taxes, and learned English. Mr. Frist said said this group accounted for about 60 percent of the roughly 11 million illegal immigrants believed to be living here.

?Those who have lived here for two to five years, said to number about three million, would have to leave the country briefly before reporting to an American port of entry, where they would be classified as temporary workers. They would be allowed to apply for citizenship but would have no guarantee of obtaining it. Those who did not would have to leave after participating in the temporary worker program for six years.

?The remaining one million or so, those who have lived in the country less than two years, would be required to leave. They could apply for temporary worker status but would not be guaranteed it.

Mr. Frist said in an interview with CNN that the key to the compromise was a recognition that illegal immigrants "are not a monolithic group."

Those who have stayed in the country more than five years "are more likely to be assimilated into society," he said. Also, there was a recognition "that it's impractical, it's impossible, to send everybody home."

Mr. Frist said the compromise bill would be combined with one he had proposed concerning border security and cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants.

Senators of both parties and their aides had huddled in meetings throughout the day, trying to hash out a deal by week's end, the deadline set by Mr. Frist for a vote on an immigration bill. For the first time, senior Democrats, including Senators Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts and Richard J. Durbin of Illinois, joined in the negotiations, an acknowledgment that they lacked the backing to get a vote on broader legalization.

Mr. Frist said that the Senate would vote first today on legislation proposed by Senator Kennedy and Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican, that was passed by the Judiciary Committee. Mr. Frist said that measure, which would have allowed nearly all illegal immigrants to eventually apply for citizenship, would fail to gain the 60 votes it would need to avoid a filibuster.

Then the debate would move to the new compromise, which Mr. Frist predicted would be voted on Friday or possibly tonight.

Lawmakers, who gave impassioned partisan speeches on the floor, had remained deadlocked late into the night Wednesday in a search for a compromise. Senators warned that if the negotiations collapsed, Congress might fail to take action this year on an issue that has riveted the nation and pushed tens of thousands of immigrants and their supporters into the streets for rallies across the country.

Mr. Frist placed blame for the stalemate on Democrats, who refused to allow Republicans to vote on major amendments and have used a parliamentary tactic that will force lawmakers to decide Thursday whether the bill more favorable to illegal immigrants should be considered for a floor vote.

Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the minority leader, blamed the Republicans, saying they had continued to "stonewall" by seeking to pass amendments that would gut that broad legalization bill, approved by the Judiciary Committee last week with bipartisan support.

As the party leaders pointed fingers, Senator McCain rose on the floor and pleaded with his colleagues to come together to prevent a rare opportunity from slipping away.

"This is one of the greatest challenges we face in our time, securing our borders, taking 11 million people out of the shadows who are exploited every day, fulfilling the job requirements we all know are necessary to ensure the economic future," Mr. McCain said.

"Americans are passionate in general," he said, "but this issue has brought passion few of us have seen in this country ? in Los Angeles, New York City and around the nation. It seems we owe every American a resolution to this issue. Could we please move forward?"

President Bush, who met with Republican Congressional leaders on Wednesday, also pressed the Senate to move ahead. "I strongly urge them to come to a conclusion as quickly as possible and pass a comprehensive bill," the president said.

Republicans said the compromise, whose prominent backers include Mr. McCain and Senators Mel Martinez of Florida and Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, would attract votes from their members who are uncomfortable with broader legalization. But the compromise cannot pass without the support of Democrats, who said they were still weighing their options.

"Aren't we entitled to at least a chance to have a vote on a comprehensive approach?" Mr. Kennedy said.

There were signs, though, that some of Mr. Kennedy's allies among business and immigrant advocacy groups were throwing their support behind the compromise proposal.

The leaders of the Essential Worker Immigration Coalition, which represents hotels, restaurants and other service industries, said a limited legalization would be better than a bill that focused solely on tightening border security.

Any bill passed by the Senate would have to be reconciled with one passed by the House that calls for deporting all illegal immigrants as felons, and would make it a crime to offer them assistance of any kind.

Mr. Frist said the impassioned debate in the Senate over the past two weeks "shows that it's not where the House is."

"Our approach is more complete," he said.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Immigration Vote [Re: daimyo]
    #5486280 - 04/06/06 11:50 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Does this really matter? These fuckers cant even enforce the current laws on the books....how much credibility they have making new ones?

IF ANYONE was half way concerned about his issue, the National
Guard and available garrison reserves would be mobilized to the border IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Immigration Vote [Re: daimyo]
    #5486363 - 04/06/06 12:09 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

It seems odd that the only deciding factor between immigrants who will be allowed to become citizens and immigrants who will be deported is a matter of 5 years. That's a very arbitrary way to decide who gets to be a citizen.

Although I have no idea what alternative I would propose :shrug:


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Immigration Vote [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5486633 - 04/06/06 02:17 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I mean whats the problem? They only come here to work.....

Its not like 20% of the prison population are illegals......



Charges Filed In Wreck That Killed Ex-Coach
16-Year-Old Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Wyandotte County, Kan., prosecutors filed charges Wednesday in a wreck that killed a former football coach at Olathe North High School.

David K. Bassore, 51, of Liberty, was driving home from work Monday on Interstate 35 near the 18th Street Expressway exit when his pickup truck was clipped by a Dodge Neon. Bassore's pickup went off the road, rolling twice before it stopped on its side. Bassore was thrown from the vehicle. He died at the scene.

Prosecutors charged the driver of the Neon, 16-year-old Raul Cabrera, of Shawnee, Kan., with one count of involuntary manslaughter in juvenile court.

Officials said Cabrera is an illegal immigrant, and the judge decided the teen should remain in custody.


The Kansas Highway Patrol is still investigating the fatal wreck, but they suspect Cabrera was drag racing with another car.

KMBC's Maria Antonia reported that Cabrera's mother said her son was not racing; he was being chased by another driver and that he had been followed for several days.

Officials said they are considering charging Cabrera as an adult or upping the charge to second-degree murder.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Registered: 12/20/00
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Re: Immigration Vote [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5487281 - 04/06/06 06:31 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

That entire post is pointless and off topic.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Immigration Vote [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5487340 - 04/06/06 06:54 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Seems quite relevant to me. Maybe you just disagree with it and instead of trying to dispute it you dismiss it as "pointless and off topic"?

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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: Immigration Vote [Re: DieCommie]
    #5487409 - 04/06/06 07:12 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The point is, these people are human beings. Mabey they got unlucky and weren't born into wealth and prosperity like the rest of us in the United States. Our country is selfish. We are born into freedom and prosperity and now we don't want to give anyone else the opportunity we have even if they want to work for it.


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."

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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Immigration Vote [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5487445 - 04/06/06 07:21 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think you understand the proposal. We're not stopping anyone from coming here legally. If they want to work, they can apply for the work visa. All this does is tighten up our borders, allow us to know who's coming in, and gives jobs back to Americans.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: Immigration Vote [Re: daimyo]
    #5487547 - 04/06/06 07:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I totally understand the proposal, we have been talking about it at school for a week. I think you have been watching too much tv


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."

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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Immigration Vote [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5487568 - 04/06/06 07:48 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

David_vs_Goliath said:
I totally understand the proposal




Then please explain to me where you get this from:

Quote:

David_vs_Goliath said:
We are born into freedom and prosperity and now we don't want to give anyone else the opportunity we have even if they want to work for it.




--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Immigration Vote [Re: DieCommie]
    #5487577 - 04/06/06 07:51 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Seems quite relevant to me. Maybe you just disagree with it and instead of trying to dispute it you dismiss it as "pointless and off topic"?




What's to disagree with? All he did was make a sarcastic quip about how many illegal immigrants are in prison, then posted an article about some Mexican hitting a guy while driving a car...

Explain the relevence to me because I'm baffled. I don't see what any of his post has to do with the article Daimyo posted, which goes into the nuts and bolts of the bill currently being debated in senate. Complaining about how many illegal immigrants are in prison doesn't evince either support or opposition for the bill, it just evinces a general dislike of illegal immigrants. Which is fine. I just don't see what it has to do with this bill or this thread. I bet there are a lot of people who hate illegal immigrants who support the bill, and I bet there are a lot of people who hate illegal immigrants who oppose the bill. But I don't know which side of the fence SirTrip sits on.

I was simply trying to get SirTripALot to think out what he was saying a little more clearly and maybe actually give some consideration to what this bill might mean.

I stand by my original sentiment that the post was pointless and off topic, particularly the article he posted. What the hell does that have to do with anything? Please tell me.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Invisiblebukkake
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
Re: Immigration Vote [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5487598 - 04/06/06 07:54 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
That entire post is pointless and off topic.



He was suggesting all illegal immigrants commit heinous crimes, drive wrecklessly and without licenses, and kill people. You must understand xenophobia and bigotry are vogue in America.

The US can always surrender half of Mexico back and let the Mexicans live on the states we raped away. Or maybe begin prosecuting the land owners who work these Mexicans for $10 a day? Or maybe they can improve the job conditions the Mexican workers work to the point where Americans will be willing to work the fruit and vegetation fields? Wild ideas like that.

But of course, in rampant capitalist societies such as America, worker exploitation and owner lawlessness in the workplace are glorious.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Immigration Vote [Re: daimyo]
    #5487774 - 04/06/06 08:28 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Illegal immigrants should be tossed out of our country on their ass. If they want to come here, they should go through the correct procedures.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Immigration Vote [Re: bukkake]
    #5487783 - 04/06/06 08:30 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:Its not like 20% of the prison population are illegals....



Quote:

bukkake said:He was suggesting all illegal immigrants commit heinous crimes, drive wrecklessly and without licenses, and kill people.




20% = all? must be that new math...

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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: Immigration Vote [Re: bukkake]
    #5487787 - 04/06/06 08:31 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I get this from my own intellect. Did it sound like some sort of fact from a website? No.
What I am saying is that we were born in this country by chance, we are thrown into this world randomly if you think about it. These immigrants just got screwed a bit by being born into Mexico. Now these people are trying to live a decent life or just get by and we are shutting them out. I know this is obviously against the laws of the United States, but wasn't slavery once legal? Now don't go into a whole arguement against the slavery comment, I am just trying to give an example of when laws change as people change. Most of the immigrants in this country pay taxes and actualy support our economy in a large part. Adding about 8 billion dollars. Now we need to act as humans and not "Americans" and start respecting other humans who are a lot like us.


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Immigration Vote [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5487810 - 04/06/06 08:37 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

David_vs_Goliath said:
Most of the immigrants in this country pay taxes and actualy support our economy in a large part. Adding about 8 billion dollars.


Id like to know how people sending 15-20 billion to mexico every year adds 8 billion to our economy. Link?

Personally, if they learn english, respect our culture, and establish roots here in america instead of sending money to the country they are escaping from, im all for making them citizens.

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Invisiblebukkake
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
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Re: Immigration Vote [Re: DieCommie]
    #5487840 - 04/06/06 08:46 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Now we need to act as humans and not "Americans" and start respecting other humans who are a lot like us.



Why on Earth did you type up that entire paragraph in opposition only to ultimately agree with me?

Quote:

if they learn english, respect our culture, and establish roots here in america instead of sending money to the country they are escaping from, im all for making them citizens.



Why is English a pre-requisite? America has no culture other than McDonalds, Burger King, and obesity. And, what would be wrong with sending money back to their Mexican families so they may support themselves? If the ludicrous immigration laws were not currently in place, they would just as ably have their families join them in America rather than send their slavery wages sent back to their home country.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Immigration Vote [Re: bukkake]
    #5487871 - 04/06/06 08:54 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bukkake said:Why is English a pre-requisite?


For a society to function, communication is a must.
Quote:

bukkake said:America has no culture.


:lol: why would you think that?  Every person and every country has a culture.
Quote:

bukkake said: And, what would be wrong with sending money back to their Mexican families so they may support themselves?


Because it hurts those of us who have a vested interest in the financial health of America.  It also hurts mexico in the long run by making mexico dependent on foreign aid.  Mexico has vast natural resources, and should be able to be self sufficient.
Quote:

bukkake said:If the ludicrous immigration laws were not currently in place, they would just as ably have their families join them in America rather than send their slavery wages sent back to their home country.


But the laws arnt even being enforced, so what does it matter if they are ludicrous?  Their family can come just fine, and they do.  Many do.  Others dont.

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Invisiblebukkake
Male

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Loc: Classified
Re: Immigration Vote [Re: DieCommie]
    #5487914 - 04/06/06 09:05 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

For a society to function, communication is a must.



The United States has no official language.

Quote:

why would you think that? Every person and every country has a culture.



I stated what American culture was directly after. America most certainly does have a culture. It is in the form of financial skyscrapers and fat people.

Quote:

Because it hurts those of us who have a vested interest in the financial health of America. It also hurts mexico in the long run by making mexico dependent on foreign aid. Mexico has vast natural resources, and should be able to be self sufficient.



It helps America's modern day landlords to exploit the Mexican worker. What to America's landlords care where the Mexican spends his dollar as long as the lord prospers from the back breaking labor?

Quote:

Many do. Others dont.



Sounds compassionate.

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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Immigration Vote [Re: bukkake]
    #5487950 - 04/06/06 09:17 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"Politics have no relation to morals."


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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