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DaCultivater
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Registered: 10/08/05
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is an incubater even necessary at any point?
#5479871 - 04/04/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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OK so in the book (TMC) it says to incubate, in almost all the tek's hear it says to incubate.
When ever i post a question that involves incubation in any way people tell me many different things. but mainly people tell me not to incubate (other than leaving at room temp which is a form of incubation) ).
so what's the deal??? i wonder.
hear are some examples of some of the post i speak of.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post5410033
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post5476557
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post5410383
so there is an example of every stage of growth (except fruiting lol but thats pretty much room temp any way)
so what do you all think?
-cult
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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tokey666
Let's Build It Instead


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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: DaCultivater]
#5479936 - 04/04/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nice research!
Incubation speeds along the process IMHO. Thats all. Nothing more, nothing less. Just what it seems to do for my grows anyway.
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DaCultivater
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: tokey666]
#5479938 - 04/04/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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do you use agar?
wbs?
you incubate your casings?
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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hyphae
born to grow


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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: DaCultivater]
#5479954 - 04/04/06 05:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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It also besides speeding things up gives you a pinning trigger when you do drop temps. Peeps that say it don't matter failed to realize the whole damn concept behind the art of pinning! What a fucking shame but hey who the hell gives a shit about them anyway! To each their own.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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DaCultivater
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: hyphae]
#5479981 - 04/04/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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so are you saying you should incubate durring case running?
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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Snaggletooth
Stranger in a Strange Land


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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: hyphae]
#5479983 - 04/04/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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^^^yes
You will always get different answers...too many damn chefs in the kitchen... 
Also some like RR is an expert in every sense of the word, but an old hand is comfortable differently then us newbies.
So consider the source, and maybe split the deference....
--------------------
Atheist Chat
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Holydiver
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: DaCultivater]
#5480024 - 04/04/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The entire process can be done without an incubator, but unless you live in a relatively warm climate, expect to add 10-15 days EASY to a grow that utilizes an incubator.
Also, there's a major benefit to going from stage-to-stage as fast as possible. The quicker you use your culture, the more vigorous your growth will be. Quart jars of WBS will colonize at room temperature in 2-3 weeks, but I guarantee the same jars that colonized in an incubator in only 5 days will light up your substrate 2x faster. Just my .02
-------------------- To find a place to live between the negatives and positives.
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DaCultivater
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: Holydiver]
#5480077 - 04/04/06 06:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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i like holy's points, but i have been told that when someone(i don't remember who but it was someone here)has a stack of boxes of jars, the temp senced at the center of that pile was 80 somthing when at room temp. and that when you use an incubater the temps inside the jars can well excead 90, which is bad right?
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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hyphae
born to grow


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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: Snaggletooth]
#5480115 - 04/04/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Incubating during the initial casing run depends on a couple of things and they should be taken into consideration by the serious cultivator. Number one concern is the depth of the casing layer, you want to use the myc momentum (enertia) to your benefit so incubating initially will keep that myc at full throttle until you decide it's time. This allows the energy to then be transferred to fruiting. This is all common mycosense if you really think about it in the eyes of a mycologist (non-newbie). The second consideration is the myc's vigor, very aggressive myc needs to be timed somewhat different (sooner). Bottom line thoughs who know what they're doing will prevail throughout any circumstances CONSISTANTLY! So to those who say whatever I say you got that right!
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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DaCultivater
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: hyphae]
#5480135 - 04/04/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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well what about just colonising wbs jars or agar hyphae?
and are you saying that the thicker the sub layer the lower temp needed to support faster colonisation?
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
Edited by DaCultivater (04/04/06 06:40 PM)
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DaCultivater
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: DaCultivater]
#5480274 - 04/04/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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bump...
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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hyphae
born to grow


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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: DaCultivater]
#5480502 - 04/04/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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No I'm saying the thinner the casing layer and/or the more aggressive the myc the quicker fruiting should be initiated. GL
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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DaCultivater
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: hyphae]
#5480530 - 04/04/06 08:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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so i should incubate durring case running in you oppinion?
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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Cubenisseur
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: hyphae]
#5480552 - 04/04/06 08:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Good advise Holydiver and Hyphae, that cleared a couple of things up for me too.
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mushboy
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: Cubenisseur]
#5480611 - 04/04/06 09:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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dude. read the teks. once you have grown according to them, then you can see if u need to incubate your casings. I do not incubate casings for more than 1day so i have more control over pinning.
Everyone is goin to answer different. Its like asking if you should smoke using a bong or not. whatever you feel works best for try. try incubating half u jars, than not incubating the others.. see which one is faster..
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headbig
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: mushboy]
#5480819 - 04/04/06 09:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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my incubator consist of the box my spawnbag came in and my cable box for warmth stays at 87 deg.
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DaCultivater
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: headbig]
#5481020 - 04/04/06 10:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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dude mushboy chill
i know everyone has their own way and that is what i'm interested in, with that attitude why even have a message board.
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: DaCultivater]
#5481152 - 04/04/06 11:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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All my myco stuff happens at room temp. My actual room temp, during the cold season, at the level of the jars, is 72. At 72, I can probably go from inoculation to first flush in 5-6 weeks. Incubating at optimal temps would be a week or two faster, and might produce a larger flush, but it's just an unnecessary step for my purposes. I try to keep it as simple as possible.
I would be curious to see yield differences in a controlled test.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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cappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: Rahz]
#5481532 - 04/05/06 02:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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DC, you've had 0 luck with incubating for a year right? Try it without. I don't know what to tell you. I can't imagine having that much trouble with jars. You already had my opinion(jars too dry and/or incubation temps are too high).
I've had amazing jar success with soaking and simmering AND just simmering. OBSERVING the grains is the moist important part for figuring out hydration IMO. Then I PC my jars for 1 hr @ 15PSI. FULLY cool them. I inoculate through 1 hole that allows alot of air exchange. Then I incubate @ 81F floor temp of incubator. I check that temp once EVERY DAY.
100% success on the jar level. Casings..well that's another story. I'm still figuring that out. But jars.. well I feel they are my best friend so far. Maybe I've just been lucky.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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DaCultivater
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: cappa]
#5481541 - 04/05/06 02:52 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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have you incubated your casings? have you done agar and used an incubater or not?
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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cappa
Nerd
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: DaCultivater]
#5481545 - 04/05/06 02:56 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes I have incubated my casings. For some reason I can't keep myself from messing with them though before they are done.
Never done agar, can't help with that.
-------------------- Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't. ~Cappa.
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DaCultivater
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: cappa]
#5481547 - 04/05/06 02:58 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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cool
well i'm about to use agar to knock up thoes 40 sum jars tomarrow. there about 3 weeks old but i still think the'll be fine. iv'e found a new sence of vigor with my mushroom projects.
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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blackout


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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: DaCultivater]
#5482229 - 04/05/06 10:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ah "room temp" my pet hate. Room temp for me is 60F for some people it is 95F.
Its like saying "how long should I pc my jars?" mmm about the length of time it takes you to go to the local shop and back...
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: blackout]
#5482707 - 04/05/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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'Room Temperature' in the way I use it means 72f - 74F. If you need to wear a sweater indoors, then your house is not being kept at 'room temperature'.
The biggest reason I recommend room temperature to newbies is because of all the horror stories of incubators getting too hot and ruining projects. I don't think anyone will argue that a jar will colonize faster at 80f than at 65F to 70F. The distinction to make is, "is it worth the expense and risk to colonize my jars a few days earlier" or just let them go on their own at room temp. I practice and recommend the latter.
Another reason I practice room temp colonization is that I have anywhere from 100 to 200 jars of various species colonizing at any given time, and having them on a series of open shelves allows me to quickly see the progress they're making.
There are considerable factors that influence pinning. Personally, my own experience does not show a temperature drop to be one of them. I have fruited at a lower temperature than colonization, and I've fruited at the same temperature as colonization, with absolutely no difference in pinset whatsoever.
Recently, I had an experiment that I wanted to speed up, so an extra space heater was placed into the room, raising the temps to 82F for a few weeks. The greenhouse was in this same room and also subjectd to the increased temperatures. Projects that had incubated at 75F were placed into the greenhouse which was now at 84F due to the slight heating effects of the lighting. I saw absolutely no difference in pinset when an INcrease of nearly ten degrees was given upon introduction to fruiting conditions. I believe the other, known factors that influence pinning are far more critical than temperature.
One additional reason for incubating at room temperature is that many bacterial contaminants and molds are encouraged by higher temperatures, which can make even a short lived increase in the desired temperature possibly fatal to the mushroom mycelium.
To summarize my experiences, mycelium will colonize a substrate faster at 82 to 84 than it will at room temperature(72-74). Nobody disputes that fact. Each grower has to decide if that extra few days if worth the expense and risk of building an incubator that may or may not perform as expected while he is away at work for ten or more hours each day. Jars sitting on an open shelf are not going to overheat, nor will there be a heated box to catch on fire when left unattended all day. I hope this has helped. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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DaCultivater
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5483390 - 04/05/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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RR you are awsome
you have just answerd so many questions floating around in my head.
that is exactly the type of answer i was looking for.
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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hyphae
born to grow


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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: DaCultivater]
#5484003 - 04/05/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've also been taught that room temp was 72F. But actually it is a slightly wider range HERE.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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DaCultivater
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: hyphae]
#5484097 - 04/05/06 06:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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ya my house is like 65 but i do know that when people say room temp, they mean 70-75
-------------------- as they said in some movie(i don't remember which one); a belief is a dangerous thing, people will kill over it; instead of believing you need to find your facts and then have an opinionated idea that you are willing to change in light of new evidence
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ElectroShaman
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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: tokey666]
#13239223 - 09/24/10 02:20 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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incubation also causes ideal conditions for contams id go with room temp unless bulk growing or reckless its up to you speed it up a couple days and risk higher contam rates or wait a lil longer
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Mad_Hatter2004
Surfista Amigo



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Re: is an incubater even necessary at any point? [Re: ElectroShaman]
#13239270 - 09/24/10 03:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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This thread is 4 years old.
--------------------
7 days without waves makes one weak!
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