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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 208
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 14 years, 18 days
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Re: Loose Change video 9/11 [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5559071 - 04/26/06 03:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Every conspiracy theory I have read about or watched a movie on has had many expert opinions in each. Do you think the company that inspected the steel for the world trade centers was not an "EXPERT" when they talked in the video. Or the multitude of college professors who have banned together to investigate on their own. I don't know what you are talking about when you say there are no experts with credibility.
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Quote:
David_vs_Goliath said: Every conspiracy theory I have read about or watched a movie on has had many expert opinions in each. Do you think the company that inspected the steel for the world trade centers was not an "EXPERT" when they talked in the video. Or the multitude of college professors who have banned together to investigate on their own. I don't know what you are talking about when you say there are no experts with credibility.
Provide me with links to respectable and informed experts with credentials who have NO biases or axes to grind. Note that I don't want to see links to www.stopthewar.com and crap like that. I want respected news organizations or work by respected researchers with REAL credentials. I will be glad to check out anything of substance that you put up.
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 208
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 14 years, 18 days
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Re: Loose Change video 9/11 [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5560111 - 04/26/06 08:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Scholars for truth...http://st911.org/ -Professors/scholars/students
Physics 911...http://physics911.net/spine.htm -professors/professionals/pilots/former gov.
"Here is the statement of an experienced airline pilot: "The idea of being able to use a cellphone while flying is completely impractical. Once through about 10,000 feet, the thing is useless, since you are too high and moving too fast (and thus changing cells too rapidly) for the phone to provide a signal." (AVWeb, 1999)
According to AT&T spokesperson Alexa Graf, cellphones are not designed for calls from the high altitudes at which most airliners normally operate. It was, in her opinion, a "fluke" that so many calls reached their destinations. (Harter 2001) In the opinion of a colleague of mine who has worked in the cellphone industry, it was a "miracle" that any of the calls got through from altitude
The Undeniable piece of evidence http://www.propagandamatrix.com/121003mysteryenginepart.html
Not a 9/11 site but a CNN News story about public college professors who can't voice their political opinion after 9/11. http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200209\NAT20020919a.html
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Quote:
The Undeniable piece of evidence
What the hell is that all about? So a bunch of people -- none of whom ever touched the fan in question, you will note -- cannot identify positively which engine it came from by looking at a photograph? And this is "undeniable evidence" of... what, exactly?
As for your other link -- "Not a 9/11 site but a CNN News story about public college professors who can't voice their political opinion after 9/11" --
First of all, it's not CNN, but CNS. Not the same organization. Secondly, nowhere in the article does it say professors cannot voice their political opinions. Thirdly, what does any of that have to do with whether or not the government was involved in pulling off the 9/11 attacks?
See, this is exactly what I have been trying to point out about all this moonbat crap. The people who buy into it don't read, don't understand what they do try to read, and know so little about the subject they are attempting to address they can't even recognize that the people who DO claim to know something about it don't either.
But they DO know that Chimpy Mcbushitlerburton lied, man. And that's all that matters.
Phred
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Aldous
enthusiast


Registered: 10/19/99
Posts: 977
Loc: inside my skull
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Loose Change video 9/11 [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5563073 - 04/27/06 02:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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RandalFlagg said: A thorough congressional investigation. [...] Provide me with links to respectable and informed experts with credentials who have NO biases or axes to grind.
Wow, you want NO bias, but you're willing to take the congressional investigation at face value...!?  Does the term 'conflict of interest' ring a bell for you? If not, google "9/11 commission" and "conflict of interest", and you will learn at least 2 members of the commission had important conflicts of interest (Zelikow and Gorelick). Talk about unbiased...
Strangely, in its report, that same 'unbiased' congressional commission *omitted* to even mention WTC7 and the fact it collapsed, let alone examine the exact reasons why. Of course, this had nothing to do with the object of their scrutiny, the 9/11 attacks.
Really, try again...
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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The cell phone issue has been debunked several times over now, even by people who believe in a conspiracy.
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-truth.html
http://www.oilempire.us/bogus.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theory#Claims_cell_phone_calls_were_impossible
If you want to engage in debate with credibility and intellectual integrity, you have to abandon your attachment to seeing your hypothesis proven right. You have to spend at least as much time examining this impartially from the perspective of someone who accepts the "official story", ie: debunking the conspiracy theory, as you do entertaining the possibility that it was an inside job.
Any piece of supposed evidence you have that you feel is strong enough to make you believe an alternate scenario, you need to examine it under the most intense scrutiny you can muster. When I first saw the "Pentagon Strike" video, I thought "Shit. What aren't we being told?", and the sinister beats of the Dust Brothers got my adrenaline surging too. But after watching it again, then examining not only the evidence but the tactics used, I determined that the evidence was extremely weak, the logic was based an incredibly blunt assumptions, and the tactics were intellectually dishonest. But hey, at least it had some kick as music, right? I went through the same process when I watched "Loose Change" and any other piece of media asserting that 9/11 was somehow directly perpetrated by the U.S. government. Sure, the video did cause me to think, and research, and I realized the "official story" is more plausible then I ever thought before. Ironically, if anything, this video ultimately makes a stronger case for the "official story" because it is such a rediculously flawed piece of work.
Here's two links to chew on, by the way, that speak more to the crowd who prefer the pentagon flavor of 9/11 conspiracy theory:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html
If you want to implicate the villainy of the U.S. government in 9/11, one needs look no further than the foreign policy of said government since the cold war. You may feel conspiracy theory is important to "get people thinking" but are you thinking critically about the issues and events or are you indulging in delusion?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Loose Change video 9/11 [Re: Viveka]
#5563131 - 04/27/06 02:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wow, that was a great post. I'm honestly impressed.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Quote:
David_vs_Goliath said: Scholars for truth...http://st911.org/ -Professors/scholars/students
Physics 911...http://physics911.net/spine.htm -professors/professionals/pilots/former gov.
There is some interesting stuff on these sites...mainly the examination on how the twin towers could have collapsed. But, I am bothered by the fact that nearly all of the so-called experts listed as being members of these groups have degrees in things completely unrelated to the topics at hand. As I go through the list of esteemed members I see "P.hd in English", "P.hd in Linguistics", "P.hd in Computer Science", "P.hd in Philosophy", and strangely enough "P.hd in Islamic studies". There are only a few people who have credentials in applicable fields (like physics, engineering, and architecture). Why are there so many people involved in this project who don't have any expertise in the fields that are being examined?
Quote:
David_vs_Goliath said: "Here is the statement of an experienced airline pilot: "The idea of being able to use a cellphone while flying is completely impractical. Once through about 10,000 feet, the thing is useless, since you are too high and moving too fast (and thus changing cells too rapidly) for the phone to provide a signal." (AVWeb, 1999)
From Wikipedia:
Carnegie Mellon researchers published results of a study in which they monitored spectrum frequencies generated by cell phone use during commercial passenger flights. They concluded that one to four cell phone calls are made during each average passenger flight, contrary to FCC and FAA regulations. [105] The study makes no mention of the length of the calls or whether a successful air-ground connection was actually made during the monitored transmissions.
It is unclear what the various altitudes of the aircraft were during the short journey from hijacking to crashing, increasing or decreasing connection odds. In addition, each seat in the plane had a built in phone which could have been used at any point during the flight. Determining whether the calls received were from the GTE Airfones or cell phones has been a difficult task to document.
It is known that in the final moments of the flight Edward Felt dialed 911 from his cell phone from the lavatory of the aircraft which was answered by dispatcher John Shaw. Felt was able to tell the dispatcher about the hijacking before the call was out of range and subsequently disconnected.
Many 9/11 reseachers believe that the cell phone calls were real and that calls were indeed made, but question other parts of the official account.
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David_vs_Goliath said: The Undeniable piece of evidence http://www.propagandamatrix.com/121003mysteryenginepart.html
I don't trust stuff from that site.
Quote:
David_vs_Goliath said: Not a 9/11 site but a CNN News story about public college professors who can't voice their political opinion after 9/11.
...After reading that I am seriously questioning your reading comprehension. Nowhere in that article does it detail that professors are being censored. It's just a news story about some political think-tank bitching about "anti-American" professors. Then it talks about how some state legislators bitched about it too. This is hardly evidence of some effort to censor professors and academia.
And as Phred mentioned, how does this tie into the idea that the U.S. government carried out or was complicit in the attacks? This story has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Edited by RandalFlagg (04/27/06 03:20 PM)
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