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WIZOLZ
Poor with Needs


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 290
Loc: Monte Carlo
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Control Test - Contamination Times
#5473747 - 04/03/06 07:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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My question is for all you advanced mycologist's or knowledgable culitvators, so hopefully we can all gain insight into this. What I was trying to determine was an acurate Control Test for my BRF Jar substrates, which is mentioned in the PF Tek to give sterilized substrate moderate sit time to determine if it is free of contimination before inoculating. What is the time span for various popular contaminants to spawn? Which ones grow quicker then others? Which set in longer? Maybe we can set up an informative, simple to read time frame, for the most mycelial devestating micro-organisms. Including personal experiences and actual scientific data.
Thanks - I'll be reading through the contiminant FAQ a few more times and most probably researching into this more in the near future.
-------------------- ---------o----o----o-------o------------------------o--o-o- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold --------------------------------------------------------------- "The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance" ------------------------------------------------------------- WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Control Test - Contamination Times [Re: WIZOLZ]
#5474104 - 04/03/06 10:41 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I recently did an experiment out of curiosity, through some extra brf substrate into a sealed container, didn't sterilize it and incubated it just to see what nasties I could grow... I got nothing for almost a week surprisingly, then the bacteria kicked in. The brf turns from brown to a yellowish color and looks like its wetter than the rest... I'd bet it stinks too but I haven't been adventurous enough to open the container :-) A few days later I started seeing white stuff that almost looks like myc... actually sort of looked like some sort of frosted coating you'd see on a sugary cereal, that grew on top and spread pretty quick. A few days after that, half the container turned green almost all at once, and just now almost 3 weeks in I'm starting to see cobweb on the couple areas that hadn't been covered by the white stuff.
Obviously not a very scientific experiment but that's the order and time frame the contams kicked in. The fact that it did take so long though makes me a little skeptical of the control jar method, because you probably wouldn't want to wait a few weeks after sterilizing just to see if your jars are "clean" or not, and I'd imagine it taking even longer on a jar that's been even through a poor sterilization process.
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WIZOLZ
Poor with Needs


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 290
Loc: Monte Carlo
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Re: Control Test - Contamination Times [Re: creamcorn]
#5475063 - 04/03/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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^_^ Right on man! Surprisingly, your simple test determines some very interesting factors, good idea! Although we could still test variables like Temperature, sterilized or unsterilized, sunlight, darkness, moisture content, material content...but I assume this information can be obtained easily enough with a google search.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/CH106
Yes, Considering your experience here, it is apparent that a week control jar test would be redundant and a hopelessly long time to wait, ecspecially if they developed the Green meanies and you lost the jars. Although it would be ecspecially nice to know a quicker method testing for contams, so atleast if the spores are junk, I can get my money back or new syringe...
I guess there's really no other alternative then to sterilze very thouroughly, unless of coarse, you wanted to hit it two times over with steam, if your boiling that is. I guess I can go ahead an inoculate these soon to be shroom jars.
Thanks for the input creamcorn..!
-------------------- ---------o----o----o-------o------------------------o--o-o- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold --------------------------------------------------------------- "The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance" ------------------------------------------------------------- WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Control Test - Contamination Times [Re: WIZOLZ]
#5476045 - 04/03/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well there is still a use for a control jar, that is, keep one from your batch around and DON'T inoculate it to use as an indicator... so for example you make up a dozen, inoculate 11, and wait. Find out that your 11 all contaminate yet the control didn't, you can quickly make the assumption your innoculating procedure (or the syringe itself) was the culprit - in this way, you're still testing to see if your syringe was bad as you mentioned, but at the same time you're not losing any time, since if all went well you're on your way to colonizing. As far as sitting around waiting for the jars to go bad doesn't make as much sense to me (although I've seen it mentioned in teks and on here...)
And hitting it with steam a few times is actually a good method if you got the patience, its known as tyndallization, but you have to be more careful with the moisture levels in your jars.
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WIZOLZ
Poor with Needs


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 290
Loc: Monte Carlo
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Re: Control Test - Contamination Times [Re: creamcorn]
#5478072 - 04/04/06 05:45 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Exactly !! Cheers man...another excellent rational. I will definately go about doing this with the first batch Im in progress with. I'll have less dismay after when I can begin to recycle the process with my own spore prints. Im interested in what you said about moisture content though. I assume your speaking relitive to the danger with added moisture?? Increasing it too thouroughly and thus decreasing chances for succesfull mycilium colonization? I have 2 jars now which look very wet withen, due to an incorrect recipe mix, I was going to go ahead and use them anywayz, for personal observation. Ive read they will take much longer to spread efficiently through the wet substrate, is this the only concern I should have? I can easily mix up a new batch of jars if I needed to replace them. Thanks for the help thus far.
-------------------- ---------o----o----o-------o------------------------o--o-o- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold --------------------------------------------------------------- "The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance" ------------------------------------------------------------- WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Control Test - Contamination Times [Re: WIZOLZ]
#5478179 - 04/04/06 07:15 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well every time you boil (or PC for that matter) you run the risk of moisture bubbling in, or some escaping if you try to cool too fast... its not a BIG deal, assuming that you're following good procedures - basically the foil over top will take care of you. Its just that there's room for error when you sterilize, and doing it two or three times increases your chances of screwing something up. I'd keep the wetter ones around too, just make sure to label them so you know which is which. You might find that a little more moisture turns out to be a good thing given your other variables (different verm and brf holds different amounts of water) and by trying a few different mixes you'll know which worked the best for next time. Too damp can slow colonization some, and can invite contams a little quicker, but if and when it does colonize you'll have more moisture in your cake when its time to birth and can actually end up with better results in the long run.
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WIZOLZ
Poor with Needs


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 290
Loc: Monte Carlo
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Re: Control Test - Contamination Times [Re: creamcorn]
#5557354 - 04/26/06 01:37 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just to update this thread with some actual, realtime data. My concerns about contaminations has left me, all the jars, including the wetest ones have colinized. Not all 100%, but 4 atleast (out of 8). The ones which were wettest havent finished, obvious to the cause, nor do I expect them to be withen the next 5 days. No contams though, which is excellent! Even the jars which I left sit for a week, then re steamed and inoculated there after were fine. I even added a little orange juice to one of the mixes and it's just about done too. I guess this goes to show how fool proof the PF method really is. God love it.
-------------------- ---------o----o----o-------o------------------------o--o-o- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold --------------------------------------------------------------- "The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance" ------------------------------------------------------------- WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile
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