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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Forum Name & Suggestions
#5473694 - 04/03/06 06:31 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5471629/an/0/page/0
In the above thread, it has become evident that there are some misconceptions about this forum due to the highly nebulous word of "Spirituality". Members [myself included] have agreed that this vaguery has led to many misplaced threads, and that a possible alternative of "Philosophy and Morality" would paint a much more clearer picture of what this forum [in contrast with the other forum] is suited for. Of course there may be other unheard alternatives that may be even better - so please, do us all a favor and speak your mind freely and passionately.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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I think we can all agree that Philosophy needs to stay. That is the meat of this forum.
I like Morality, or Ethics, but I dont think it envelopes what this forum is.... maybe a third word, or a better encompassing word which really pinpoints the subject of this forum.
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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I think it is a terrible idea. 
Maybe not that bad, but this forum should be open for threads on spirituality. And just because some people confuse the word spirituality doesn't mean we have to change it. Also many want their far out threads to stay here for scrutiny.
What's the fuzz about a few misplaced threads? People are dying out there. If the threadstarter wants to move it, all he needs to do is ask, eh?
Edited by dr_mandelbrot (04/03/06 08:43 PM)
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a_h_w
Stranger
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we could name the forum: philosophy, the great sceptic cabal and science forbid "spirit"
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JacquesCousteau
Being.


Registered: 06/10/03
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Loc: Everywhere, Everytime.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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If it were my choice, I would call this forum "Objective Philosophies and Spirituality" and the other forum "Subjective Philosophies and Spirituality."
I believe this would clearly define the line that has been drawn between this forum, which caters to a collective understanding of objective reality; and MR&P, which caters to a personal understanding of subjective reality.
I have brought this up to the others mods/admins in the past, but it never went anywhere... it is a tired subject, and most would just as soon let the sleeping dog lie.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
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I would add "Battleground" to P&S, and "Flowergarden" to MR&P.
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a_h_w
Stranger
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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5474039 - 04/03/06 10:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm in support for "battleground" and "flowergarden". it's much more descriptive of the real difference implied.
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Annom
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Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6,367
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From the big bang thread:
Quote:
fireworks_god: The forum wasn't really split so that different topics could be discussed in different forums, but so that the same topics could be discussed in different manners.
Correct!
Quote:
fireworks_god: If the only problem is that some people might mistakenly post a topic in this forum and it is discussed in a manner that they did not intend on, then our moderators should gladly rise to the occasion and move it; hey, after all, that is why they are (suspossedly) here. As the thread starter has expressed no discord concerning the (lack) of discussion of his idea, then it most certainly belongs here.
Correct again!
We have discussed this like forever. I really don't think we need another name change.
There are a lot of people who post about xanax in the Psychedelic Experience forum, there will always be people who do not read or don't care where they post. I don't think changing the name will make a difference for those people.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: Annom]
#5474598 - 04/03/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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After consulting a thesaurus I have found some words which should atleast be up for minor consideration....
Doctrine Dogma Metaphysics (i especially like this one) Ontology Syllogism (I only offer this one because it is so apt of the nature of this forum)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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I think spirituality is an integral part of this forum, and should remain so. I support the status quo in this case.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: Silversoul]
#5474800 - 04/03/06 02:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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No one is trying to snuff out spiritual discussion here, just maybe name it better so as to better define it. Using ambiguous and vague descriptions such as Spirituality isnt the optimal title for this forum.
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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What would change?
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: dorkus]
#5475132 - 04/03/06 03:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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hopefully a better division between the two forums, as well as impacting the amount of threads that are non-sequitir or purely idealistic blather.
Like someone said before, one is for subjective discussion, while the other is for objective debate.
Edited by psilocyberin (04/03/06 03:38 PM)
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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"Philosophy & Philopathy"
Or
"Ontology, Metaphysics, and Epistemology" This will scare away anyone with an inadequate vocabulary.
Edited by MushmanTheManic (04/03/06 04:16 PM)
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JacquesCousteau
Being.


Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 7,825
Loc: Everywhere, Everytime.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: Like someone said before, one is for subjective discussion, while the other is for objective debate.
But god forbid we name the forums in a way that indicates this.
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Your suggestion is a pretty nice one.
Well, let's have the secondary poll then:
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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I actually thought the "Philosophy & Metaphysics" name sounded good.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: Silversoul]
#5478960 - 04/04/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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or "Objective Philosophies, Metaphysics and Epistemology/Ontology (either or)"
MRP has three names which accurately defines the type of discussions they have, while also categorizing their three main genres of quackery.
I think it would help to have "Objective" somewhere in there, but basically I dont care what it is changed to, I just think the name needs to be changed.
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daimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
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How about this one gets named "Critical Thinking", and the other gets named "Wishful Speaking".
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


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Annom
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Registered: 12/22/02
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The definition of Objective Philosophies is very subjective...
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


Registered: 02/09/05
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Here's how I'd like it lined up:
Philosophy, Psychology, and Spirituality A discussion forum that encourages debates. I want to squeeze in Psychology in the P&S, because I definetly want to see more discussions on it.
Dogma and Metaphysics I'd like to make less 'new agish' and 'out there'. At it's current status, I cant walk in that forum without laughing. The description for this I haven't fully thought of however. I dont like the fact that others' beliefs can't be questioned in this one. I just want to keep skeptical remarks such as "Oh you believe in Jesus? Can you prove that he existed?" out of this one, because you cant prove or disprove the existence of the metaphysical, so no one cares to argue it. A discussion is welcomed however. Mysticism, the Paranormal are all covered by the 'Metaphysics' ground, whilst Religion is covered by the Dogma part. A rewording of my D&M description is welcomed.
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: Annom]
#5479359 - 04/04/06 02:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annom said: The definition of Objective Philosophies is very subjective...
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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I don't see why this forum should be limited to 'Objectivity' (especially the Randian kind). We've got dictionary.com for that.
I think this forum is fine the way it is.
I enjoy subjective threads such as "What is love" and [think seriously about this] if all the spiritualist nutjobs leave, who're we going to pick on?
That other forum, which I will refrain from mentioning, is for silly people who can't tolerate question marks. This forum should be for those who're willing to debate, possibly to the death, and it shouldn't screen out threads which aren't entirely 'objective' or even wholely subjective.
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Annom
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Registered: 12/22/02
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Loc: Europe
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We can name the forum "WHY?"
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: Annom]
#5479432 - 04/04/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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call it "Your Wrong: and here is why".
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Quote:
That other forum, which I will refrain from mentioning, is for silly people who can't tolerate question marks. This forum should be for those who're willing to debate, possibly to the death, and it shouldn't screen out threads which aren't entirely 'objective' or even wholely subjective.
perhaps it's the attitude you have toward the other forum that decreases its value. your assesment of it is incorrect because many of us post in both forums.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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I like the sound of that.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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In the second poll, I voted for Philosophy and Psychology.
I agree, human psychology is lacking here.
I'll get started with one from Human psych 101.
If you run around making fun of the strange part of town and discourage people from building their homes there, people will build their strange homes in your part of town then. 
Funny that the people who don't want certain subjects posted in here, act to get MORE of them posted in here because they don't understand basic human psyche.
Like with your suggestion Fospher, a religious member who doesn't want to be thought of as dogmatic, will now post their religious stuff in here to appear non dogmatic.
Same with your comment about quackery psilo. A person who doesn't want their explorative experiments and ideas in consciousness to be thought of as quackery will post them in here.
You riducule it too skorp. You once said that mysticism was to blame for all the problems in the world. Then you expect some people to post mystical stuff over there and not in here under the header of their life philosophy to save face.
Same with people who take a scientific approach to UFO research. If they want to be taken more seriously, they will post it in here.
You guys say you don't want certain stuff posted in here, and yet, you are discouraging people from posting the stuff you don't want in here from posting it elsewhere. In the same breath, you are also indirectly encouraging the posting of MORE of it in here, by those who want to be thought of as being intellectually superior to others, just because they post here.
Criticising MR&P makes no logical sense to do based on what you all say you want more and less of.
The flaws in the logic go deeper. The types who will post MR&P material in here, in fear of ridicule for posting in MR&P, will of course, be the more insecure ones who by default won't be able to handle scrutinizing debate as well. Like with the topics, the type of people you also don't want in here, you are further pulling in with the criticisms of MR&P.
That's ilogical 101.
Food for thought and to inspire more discussion on the psychology of human beings.
Skorp, I'd love to see both forums able to spread their wings and fly with their intended purposes of being one for subjective discussion and one for objective debate. If you want more respect and support for this forum, don't you think you should show a little in kind return to the other? All the mockery you did of it when it started and still do from time to time, sure did and does nothing to help its spread its wings and fly.
Is that a logical or rational thing to do? 
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: Deviate]
#5479507 - 04/04/06 03:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
That other forum, which I will refrain from mentioning, is for silly people who can't tolerate question marks. This forum should be for those who're willing to debate, possibly to the death, and it shouldn't screen out threads which aren't entirely 'objective' or even wholely subjective.
perhaps it's the attitude you have toward the other forum that decreases its value. your assesment of it is incorrect because many of us post in both forums.
I don't like the other forum because I'm afraid to post in it.
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: In the second poll, I voted for Philosophy and Psychology.
I agree, human psychology is lacking here.
I'll get started with one from Human psych 101.
If you run around making fun of the strange part of town and discourage people from building their homes there, people will build their strange homes in your part of town then. 
Funny that the people who don't want certain subjects posted in here, act to get MORE of them posted in here because they don't understand basic human psyche.
Like with your suggestion Fospher, a religious member who doesn't want to be thought of as dogmatic, will now post their religious stuff in here to appear non dogmatic.
Same with your comment about quackery psilo. A person who doesn't want their explorative experiments and ideas in consciousness to be thought of as quackery will post them in here.
You riducule it too skorp. You once said that mysticism was to blame for all the problems in the world. Then you expect some people to post mystical stuff over there and not in here under the header of their life philosophy to save face.
Same with people who take a scientific approach to UFO research. If they want to be taken more seriously, they will post it in here.
You guys say you don't want certain stuff posted in here, and yet, you are discouraging people from posting the stuff you don't want in here from posting it elsewhere. In the same breath, you are also indirectly encouraging the posting of MORE of it in here, by those who want to be thought of as being intellectually superior to others, just because they post here.
Criticising MR&P makes no logical sense to do based on what you all say you want more and less of.
The flaws in the logic go deeper. The types who will post MR&P material in here, in fear of ridicule for posting in MR&P, will of course, be the more insecure ones who by default won't be able to handle scrutinizing debate as well. Like with the topics, the type of people you also don't want in here, you are further pulling in with the criticisms of MR&P.
That's ilogical 101.
Food for thought and to inspire more discussion on the psychology of human beings.
Skorp, I'd love to see both forums able to spread their wings and fly with their intended purposes of being one for subjective discussion and one for objective debate. If you want more respect and support for this forum, don't you think you should show a little in kind return to the other? All the mockery you did of it when it started and still do from time to time, sure did and does nothing to help its spread its wings and fly.
Is that a logical or rational thing to do? 
this is exactly how i've always felt and its sort of what i was trying to say in my last post. i remember being amazed by the lack of maturity that was shown here by a number of people when the mysticism forum was first created and i believe that's part of why it took so long for that forum to ever get "off the ground".
Edited by Deviate (04/04/06 03:14 PM)
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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A person who doesn't want their explorative experiments and ideas in consciousness to be thought of as quackery will post them in here.
I think they should be allowed to post in here, and we should be allowed to question them.
Same with people who take a scientific approach to UFO research. If they want to be taken more seriously, they will post it in here.
Again, I'm fine with these type of posts. But, the poster needs to realize he's walked into a den of remorseless skeptics. If the poster is willing to be scrutinized, have his beliefs challenged, and enjoys debate, I would encourage them to post here. Otherwise, if someone only wants to share their experiences and converse, they should post in MRP.
You guys say you don't want certain stuff posted in here
I'm not sure what motives the people who wish to filter out certian topics, but personally, I'd rather have more people to argue with and a greater diversity of topics. Regardless of whether the topics deal with the Nature of reality or intellegently discussing how to pick up chicks.
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Temptress
Butterfly


Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 143
Loc: Texas - where else?
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the best way to pickup chicks is to use a bowling ball grip.
-------------------- i have less ego than you do!
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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The motives are pretty clear if you read here daily. They don't want those posts in here, even if the poster wants them torn to shreds. Some say they clutter up the place and call it fluff. This started with the "what does QM mean to you?" post. Because the poster said he thought God was behind the Big Bang, other members thought it belonged in MR&P, under religion.
Is or is not the meaning in life, a popular philosophical topic? He asked for others views on the meaning of something and wrote what he meant to him.
I agree, and thought when the forums split, people could still post any MRP topic in here as long as they were willing to have it scrutinized. Maybe he was. Maybe he wanted to argue the case for his idea or belief with others. Isn't he allowed to with anyone else who wants to argue it with him?
In the least, this is the philosophy forum where mild manored discussion take place too. His post to me seemed more philosophical in nature and NOT religious.
True, there have been some posts put up by people just looking for a subjective discussion and when the realized there was a better place for that, the mods moved it for them.
Head this puppy with the words OBJECTIVE DEBATE in it is all. Add SUBJECTIVE DISCUSSION to MR&P. Make it crystal clear if it's been such a problem. I think things have been fine over all.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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The posts that I am talking about are the ones which are akin to simple statements like "We are all one", or the highly dreaded Bush (the band) lyrical reflexives like "We are nothing, and everything". That doesnt belong here, because it is a dead end, unverifiable, and based only on subjective personal experience.
If someone wants to argue the existence of God, Pink Unicorns, or aliens, thats fine - however exhausted and pointless such discussions become.
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Well said, jiggy. 
psilo: What difference does it make? Why is it such a big deal that these posts you refer to sometimes come up?
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: dorkus]
#5479828 - 04/04/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ill give you the soft news slant: Because I think every thread is special in its own way, and that it needs the proper venue to blossom into the glorious discussion that it was intened to be.
So, you guys would be ok with me posting irrelevant threads about non-existent fruits and vegetables in the Cooking forum? How about posting horse vagina, or the male penis in the Pub? I know from personal experience that is a bannable offense. How about telling a story about a friend of mines grow box in the Advanced cultivation forum, that has no question, just relating a n00b type story?
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: dorkus]
#5479890 - 04/04/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: I actually thought the "Philosophy & Metaphysics" name sounded good.
From my understanding, metaphysics is a subset of philosophy. Seriously, what goal will being redundant fufill?
Quote:
Fospher said: Philosophy, Psychology, and Spirituality A discussion forum that encourages debates. I want to squeeze in Psychology in the P&S, because I definetly want to see more discussions on it.
Then start making threads about it. I do not foresee how adding terms to the title of this thread is going to create a demand for discussing a certain topic. 
Quote:
I'd like to make less 'new agish' and 'out there'. At it's current status, I cant walk in that forum without laughing.
Then it is not a forum for you to participate in, if you do not find it in accord with that which you seek to derive from participating in the forum.
Quote:
The description for this I haven't fully thought of however. I dont like the fact that others' beliefs can't be questioned in this one.
The forum was specifically created so that people's beliefs cannot be questioned in the forum.
Quote:
Mysticism, the Paranormal are all covered by the 'Metaphysics' ground, whilst Religion is covered by the Dogma part. A rewording of my D&M description is welcomed.
And metaphysics is a branch of philosophy. These are all pretty much the same topics up for discussion in both forums.
As I have stated before, the difference is in the manner in which the topics are discussed. I don't personally seek to have every thread that is posted here by others as a thread that pertains to my exact interests, or a thread that I would reply to in a specific manner, if at all, as doing so would reduce the variety in the overall experience for everyone who, for whatever reason, decides to post in this particular forum.
Traffic has decreased as it is! Some sort of balance should be maintained. I certainly would hate to see this forum become obsolete and eventually removed after a slow, suffocating death. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Quote:
Traffic has decreased as it is! Some sort of balance should be maintained. I certainly would hate to see this forum become obsolete and eventually removed after a slow, suffocating death
.
Exactly! I would be looking at ways to broaden how it caters to various members interests , not narrow the scope even further until only 3 people are interested in posting here.
For anyone who wants to see more topics of what particularly interests you, just post on them yourself. If its something you don't know much about yet but are becoming interested in, post asking questions. You can also google search it, form some thoughts of your own on what you learned and then post and discuss/debate them.
It sucks when the same ten people carry a forum. When you see people post on areas of interest you like, at least reply saying, "hey thanks." Then the poster will know, there is an audience of interest for it.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Annom
※※※※※※



Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6,367
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
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The problem is that a name change is most likely not going to help solve the problem you stated.
A solution would be that mods decide if a post belongs in P&S. This would create a lot of drama because everyone has different opinions on what belongs where. It will be very hard for mods to be consequent and even harder to make clear what is allowed in here and what not.
Being consequent and non biased is very important for this forum (for good reasons), but that does mean that we will have to create a forum where it is possible for mods to be consequent. This is impossible if we have to decide what belongs in this forum and what belongs in MRP. That is not an easy task.
If you like some more drama, let's do this
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: Annom]
#5479950 - 04/04/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The purposes and intents of each forum are posted in the rules of each forum. If someone posts a thread in either forum, and the topic fits within the realm of the forum, then it is to be assumed that it was purposefully chosen to be in this forum. 
Threads should be moved around based on the type of discussion that results, not the topic of the thread. 
Sometimes, a general, encompassing (I'd prefer "subtle" as a proper adjective ) term is very effective. Further fragmentation isn't beneficial unless there is overwhelming demand/traffic that requires it.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Annom
※※※※※※



Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6,367
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
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Quote:
The purposes and intents of each forum are posted in the rules of each forum. If someone posts a thread in either forum, and the topic fits within the realm of the forum, then it is to be assumed that it was purposefully chosen to be in this forum. (.....) Further fragmentation isn't beneficial unless there is overwhelming demand/traffic that requires it.
Yes, I agree. They can notify a mod if they want it moved. That is no problem at all.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Hows aboot: "Angry Atheists, Eerie Empiricists, & Raving Rationalists"
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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And the other forum: "Blind Believers, Superstitious Subjectivists, & Insane Irrationalists"
Or our forum: "Soul-less Robots and Cold Cyborgs"
And the other forum: "Brain-less Zombies and Gooey Retards"
Or ours: "Reality and Reason"
And theirs: "Fantasy and Faith"
Ah, we could go on for miles..
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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How about:
"Fevered Egos" vs. "Wishful Thinkers"
or
"Pretentious Assholes" vs. "Annoying Idiots"
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it stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Re: Forum Name & Suggestions [Re: Silversoul]
#5484747 - 04/05/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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So much hatred.
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