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AhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
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Love?
#5473475 - 04/03/06 03:39 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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should it be just for the people we think deserve it or uncoditional for everyone and everything?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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is love the reflection that endears? i.e. from impressions to encorporation into memory is love the caring for what appears? i.e from attitude out into the unbounded
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
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fighting fire with fire, ..
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Love? [Re: Gomp]
#5474119 - 04/03/06 10:48 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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energy shaping energy
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 208
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 14 years, 18 days
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there are many types of love. In other languages there are different names for the different types. We get caught up in our language which only has one way of describing many different but similar feelings of love. Unconditional love for a partner family love love of friends love of humanity
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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It is all the same love.
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 208
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 14 years, 18 days
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Re: Love? [Re: dorkus]
#5475195 - 04/03/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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you consider love for humanity the same as love for a spouse?
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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I try to have unconditional respect for everyone, but, for me, "love" is the product of a very open and mutual interpersonal relationship. It's something which develops after a I've spent a great deal of time with a person.
Edited by MushmanTheManic (04/03/06 04:27 PM)
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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we should allow ourselves to love as much as we are capable of.
Edited by Deviate (04/03/06 04:26 PM)
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Yes. But I could never muster up unconditional love for the whole of humanity. I think some would call that enlightenment.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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I think it would be funny if we revisted this poll ten years from now, with all the original participants. Then we could ask those who voted for 'unconditional love' how far that philosophy has gotten them in life.
my prediction: not very far
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Love? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5475583 - 04/03/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Love" is a rather vague term, and thus it is difficult to answer. I personally think that compassion for everyone is the right moral attitude to have.
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: Love? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5475618 - 04/03/06 05:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: I think it would be funny if we revisted this poll ten years from now, with all the original participants. Then we could ask those who voted for 'unconditional love' how far that philosophy has gotten them in life.
my prediction: not very far
your prediction is wrong so far for me. the more i allow and remind myself to love and i mean love life in general, the happier i am and the more able i am to deal with life's hardships. there is even an apreiciable difference in my gpa since i learned to love. it's a whole different outlook on life than i had before and superior in so many ways. don't underestimate the power of love, or compassion as paradigm puts it.
also, be aware that we are not all kids here. there are many posters in their 30s, 40s and 50s who have already passed your 10 year test.
Edited by Deviate (04/03/06 05:23 PM)
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
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Re: Love? [Re: Deviate]
#5475943 - 04/03/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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To withold love by meriting out deservance is to be judged unworthy of having love yourself.
Love is to give to all beings as love is a purifier. Beings get what they are ready for given their default ego states..... and beings give what they are comfortable with based upon their ego state.
Love is, however, for all beings, and as such the issue of deserve/non-deserve is not particularly an issue to begin with.
Recognize all beings as you.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Love? [Re: leery11]
#5476176 - 04/03/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Recognize all beings as you."
If there ever was a key, this must be it. And I think that is exactly why it is easy to love family or a spouse unconditionally. We identify with them as our selves. If they take offense, we take offense. If they are joyful, it transfers... It is literally like a merge. My experience is that honesty brings this one step further, and two people can tune into eachother and almost literally be one.
"I think it would be funny if we revisted this poll ten years from now, with all the original participants. Then we could ask those who voted for 'unconditional love' how far that philosophy has gotten them in life.
my prediction: not very far."
Where do you want to go? Are you talkin about material gains, or what?
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Complete strangers with entirely unknown histories do not get any love from me - nor could I ever expect any from them. I do extend them common courtesy, and expect the same as well. I do not advocate the prostitution of love in the name of some new-agey crap.
Love is a deep, selfish expressment of my own values that I value in another being. As such, love is a bond that is earned over time, experience and intimacy.
Now, lust, on the other hand... 
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Quote:
SkorpivoMusterion said: Complete strangers with entirely unknown histories do not get any love from me - nor could I ever expect any from them. I do extend them common courtesy, and expect the same as well. I do not advocate the prostitution of love in the name of some new-agey crap.
Love is a deep, selfish expressment of my own values that I value in another being. As such, love is a bond that is earned over time, experience and intimacy.
Now, lust, on the other hand... 
spiritual leaders have been preaching love for literally thousands of years. how is it in any way new-agey? i was expecting a more insightful reply to this topic from you. also, i think its a shame that you are not willing to offer love to strangers. its a simple acknowledgement of their being, the fact that they are fundamentally similar to you. if you love yourself, what is preventing you from extending at least little of this love to all humanity?
Edited by Deviate (04/03/06 07:40 PM)
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Love? [Re: Deviate]
#5476255 - 04/03/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"We are operating on many levels here"
"Love" is a rather vague term, and thus it is difficult to answer.
For those of you who advocate unconditional love of all beings, would you be kind enough to explain your definition(s) of "love"? Specifically, how do you unconditionally love all beings? Is it an attitude? Through selfless actions? Through unconditional acceptance and equanimity? etc.
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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its a recognition that all beings are fundamentally similar to you, therefore whatever love you have for yourself can be extended outward. that's a poor definition and hopefully someone else can do better and i am by no means a master of love. but i do feel at least small amounts of love or rather compassion, for all people. even my enemies.
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: "We are operating on many levels here"
"Love" is a rather vague term, and thus it is difficult to answer.
For those of you who advocate unconditional love of all beings, would you be kind enough to explain your definition(s) of "love"? Specifically, how do you unconditionally love all beings? Is it an attitude? Through selfless actions? Through unconditional acceptance and equanimity? etc.
I give strangers unconditional love by being the person they need me to be.
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Treat everyone as you would your own mother.
for me it's hard
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
Edited by Smoker For Peace (04/03/06 08:06 PM)
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Love? [Re: Cherk]
#5476451 - 04/03/06 08:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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What if love is life itself, the very force keeping us going. So love is this underlying lifeforce, not an emotion?
I found this in an older thread about love because I remember appreciating it:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: "Love as a State of Being"
"If a western man were to become a fully enlightened being what would happen to his human relationships, particularly love? Let me start with the word 'love' for a moment. I think there is a transformation that goes on in one's conception of the term 'love.' And I think one changes from seeing it as a verb, to seeing it as a state of being. And you move much more toward what would be called Christ-love, that is, the state of being where one 'is' love...
That is, that love and consciousness are one and the same thing. So that as you get into a higher state of consciousness you come closer to being in love. That doesn't mean in interpersonal love. It means being - love. Now if you and I love or fall into love and I say, 'She really turns me on. I love her,' from this model what I see is happeneing is that I'm saying, 'You are a. . . ,' in the imprinting literature, 'You are a superordinate key stimulus that is eliciting an innate response mechanism. You're releasing an innate response mechanism.' Or I could say it in a more general sense, saying that 'You're turning me on.' And you're turning me on to a place inside myself that is love. So I am experiencing what it means to 'be in love.' And I'm saying that I am in love with you. I am in love with my connection to the place in me that is love, is the way I would now say it in this Western framework....
It is only when you begin to understand that if you and I are truly in love, if I go to that place in me that is love and you to that place in you that is love, we are 'together' in Love...That state exists in you and it exists in me. Now the enlightened being - what happens to him is that he changes the nature of his love object from a specific love object to it all, finally. You would say that an enlightened being is totally in love with the universe, in the sense that everything in the universe turns him on to that place in himself where he is love and consciousness. So I would say that an interpersonal relationship that has any qualities of possessiveness in it, or ego drama of any kind, certainly undergoes changes as the nature of consciousness changes." - from The Only Dance There Is by Ram Dass, page 59-62
These pages have proven to be accurate in my experience since I first read them some 32 years ago. The nature of the attachments which surround certain individuals (parents, children, wives, etc.) with the 'specialness' that we attribute to them prevents us from this wider vision of what is truly happening in consciousness. It is not necessary to attempt to regard the children of total strangers with the same degree of 'emotion' (attachment) that we assign our own offspring, but we DO have to assign the same degree of Compassion (a better word for the 'agape' love of the New Testament) if we are to be enlightened. Without this profound universalizing consciousness of Compassion, we have no Wisdom either, nor Understanding and certainly no Enlightenment (and these terms cover Rahamim (Tiphereth), Binah, Chokmah and Kether on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life for those who like maps).
Peace, MarkostheGnostic
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Cherk
Fashionable


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Re: Love? [Re: dorkus]
#5476489 - 04/03/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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What if?  Personally I would interact or make a sincere effort to interact with everyone as if they were my own mother.
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Love? [Re: Cherk]
#5476506 - 04/03/06 08:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Guess I just wanted to state it as a question, and not a fact. Eh, and it was directed to the thread, not a comment to you specifically.
Edited by dr_mandelbrot (04/03/06 08:35 PM)
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Cherk
Fashionable


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Re: Love? [Re: dorkus]
#5476532 - 04/03/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's where I had some confusion.
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Love? [Re: Cherk]
#5476540 - 04/03/06 08:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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A flower? For me? Aw, thank you, Sir.
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Quote:
SkorpivoMusterion said:
Love is a deep, selfish expressment of my own values that I value in another being. As such, love is a bond that is earned over time, experience and intimacy.
Exactly, just like respect, you dont get it unless it's given out.
Love is a great thing, much better than other four letter words. Just saying it makes you feel great! LOVE!
Haha - I feel fantastic!
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Love? [Re: Gomp]
#5477902 - 04/04/06 02:46 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gomp said: fighting fire with fire, ..
I agree with this too - if they are too ignorant to accept it, why bother teaching the unwanted?
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Peyote_Princess
dreamer


Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 92
Loc: My own Island...
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Quote:
David_vs_Goliath said: there are many types of love. In other languages there are different names for the different types. We get caught up in our language which only has one way of describing many different but similar feelings of love. Unconditional love for a partner family love love of friends love of humanity
I agree - our language (that is American/English) is pretty much inadequate compared to more ancient languages like Greek at describing love; but I disagree that there are different types of love.
I think it's more a case of how it is expressed... 'love' is infamously difficult to describe in terms of what feelings it provokes within the human, but I think it is a motivational force - this overall force provokes a human to treat another in a certain way.
So I demonstrate my love toward my parents and to my brother in an ntirely different fashion to how I express my love for my bf - yet it is still love that is the guiding force in my actions to all of them.
As for whether we should love everyone, or just a selection (or no one), I think we should endeavour to love everyone - hate is easier to muster than love, but if love only those who love us, then what have we to gain from that?
Love is harder than hate, but ultimately stronger... there is most definitely people that most would consider I have good cause to hate, but I feel that hating them is a waste of my energy, and causes a person to dwell on the negative aspects of society rather than the positive... and if an individual continues along that path then it becomes increasingly more difficult to see the positive in the world at all.
Peyote_Princess xXx
-------------------- "Was I talking? ... Did they hear me?"
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Lakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
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Life is 'all about' love. Unconditional love. If you don't know this there's something wrong with you, not life or others. Billions of people are walking around in aconceptual emotional contact with all humans in their surroundings.
It is only the sickest man that must, and can, come to the realization that they have unconditional love for everyone; the rest know, this's what's called life.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Love? [Re: Fospher]
#5479419 - 04/04/06 02:31 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fospher said: I agree with this too - if they are too ignorant to accept it, why bother teaching the unwanted?
I agree with this on the level of some recent experiences. I've tried to show some people love, in many circumstances. They don't accept it, and don't return it. So I feel like walking away from the situation.
But then I think about it, and realize it's not unconditional love. Consider both sides. Confusion.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
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Re: Love? [Re: demiu5]
#5479436 - 04/04/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
demius said:
Quote:
Fospher said: I agree with this too - if they are too ignorant to accept it, why bother teaching the unwanted?
I agree with this on the level of some recent experiences. I've tried to show some people love, in many circumstances. They don't accept it, and don't return it. So I feel like walking away from the situation.
No, no, you don't understand. I mean returning hate with hate, not walking away. Like how police executes order with brute force to rape offenders, burglars, and anyone of the like. You can't walk into a bank robbery and say "Hey man, why dont you like, be full of love and get a real job?"
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Love? [Re: Fospher]
#5479451 - 04/04/06 02:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok, it's clearer now.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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TheGus
The Walrus

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 387
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: Love? [Re: dorkus]
#5480110 - 04/04/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
dr_mandelbrot said: It is all the same love.
its the one true universal language, you know minus telepathy
-------------------- "It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car. -mo0nlite_sonata Psythos
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Annom
※※※※※※



Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6,367
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: I try to have unconditional respect for everyone, but, for me, "love" is the product of a very open and mutual interpersonal relationship. It's something which develops after a I've spent a great deal of time with a person.
More or less the same for me, but I also don't have unconditional respect for everyone.
I don't know what kind of definition of love you have when you love everyone. What about Saddam, Bin Laden, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc, etc, etc....? What about all the people you don't know? Do you really love those people? Do you feel a "love emotion" when you think about or see these people? And why do you love them?
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asd11
final sky

Registered: 08/02/04
Posts: 501
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Re: Love? [Re: Annom]
#5481431 - 04/05/06 01:22 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself. -Jean Anouilh
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
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Re: Love? [Re: Annom]
#5482067 - 04/05/06 09:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annom said: What about Saddam, Bin Laden, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc, etc, etc....? What about all the people you don't know? Do you really love those people? Do you feel a "love emotion" when you think about or see these people? And why do you love them?
Yes. I feel a love for the person, not their movement. Because they are human.
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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Annom
※※※※※※



Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6,367
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Re: Love? [Re: Cherk]
#5482537 - 04/05/06 11:42 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Can you describe this love? Is it the same love as your love for friends and family?
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Love? [Re: Annom]
#5482573 - 04/05/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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True unconditional love is indescribable and undefinable. It is ineffable beyond the symbol "love".
Conditional love is where you feel love towards a person or group of persons or even other objects, and so long as they continue doing whatever it is that pleases you and arouses this feeling, then you love them. As soon as they stop though, the love dies down, because it was conditional on their doing what you enjoy.
True unconditional love arises, I think, from the knowledge and recognition of That from whence we all arise, and understanding that we are all aspects of the One without a second, we are all "the Son of God" so to speak. Once that happens, there really isn't much else to do except feel unconditional love towards everything.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Cherk
Fashionable


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Re: Love? [Re: Annom]
#5482804 - 04/05/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annom said: Can you describe this love? Is it the same love as your love for friends and family?
It is a love, or knowing of a love, that transcends space and time. It is the same love as I give to family members and close friends, but I cannot lie and say that I have perfect patience. It can be hard to maintain this love around arrogant or "evil" people, but this is the reason I continue meditating, so that I can experience unconditional love from every aspect of existence.
It is an acceptance of our most basic nature, and the realization that all beings are living for the same reason. It is ignorant to not love someone because of their placement in the karmic law of cause and effect.
--------------------
I have considered such matters. SIKE
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