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defcheck
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Allien wheel
#5468992 - 04/01/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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my friend and I disagree on which way this wheel would spin. I believe it would not spin at all, where as he thinks it will spin to the left(my fuck up, TO THE RIGHT). All the dimensions are the exact same on either side, each tank is set exactly opposite to its pair on the other side. The center is its axis. No force is put on it in either direction.
Edited by defcheck (04/01/06 09:28 PM)
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: defcheck]
#5469018 - 04/01/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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what is making it spin?
if its on an axis, i could spin it in either direction...
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defcheck
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: DieCommie]
#5469036 - 04/01/06 08:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The center is its axis. no force is put on it in either direction.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: defcheck]
#5469042 - 04/01/06 08:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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well, if no force is applied, and its not spinning to begin with, then its simply not spinning.
Im not sure what your are asking...
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defcheck
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: DieCommie]
#5469061 - 04/01/06 08:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: well, if no force is applied, and its not spinning to begin with, then its simply not spinning.
Im not sure what your are asking...
That is exactly what I told him. It would not spin at all. And it would take the same amount of force on either side to spin it either direction. He claimed it would spin to the left because the tanks were off center and there was more gravatational force on the left side.
Edited by defcheck (04/01/06 08:53 PM)
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DieCommie

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Re: Allien wheel [Re: defcheck]
#5469073 - 04/01/06 08:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
defcheck said:And it would take the same amount of force on either side to spin it either direction.
I think if you applied the same amount of force to each side, it would still be motionless. For example if it is in a gravitational field, and feels the same force of gravity on each side it would just sit there. If each side had a different vertical force applied to it, then there would be some spinning.
Also, none of this has to do with teh fancy blocks on your wheel, it would be the same if it was just a solid plate.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: defcheck]
#5469077 - 04/01/06 08:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
defcheck said:He claimed it would spin to the left because the tanks were off center and there was more gravatational force on the left side.
But you said there was no force....
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Diploid
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: defcheck]
#5469104 - 04/01/06 08:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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You didn't specify, but I think you're asking which way it would spin if air flowed across it in the plane of the picture. In that case, it would spin to the left because, while the image is symmetrical when viewed from above, as in the pic, it is not symmetrical when viewed along its plane.
Consider the case of air flowing across the image from top to bottom. The sum of all the force vectors on the left, exceed those on the right because on the left, the array is more exposed to the air, it's more 'scoop-like'. On the right, most of the array is in the wind-shadow of the elements above it.
The end result is that the left 'catches' more air than the right. Hence, it spins to the left.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: defcheck]
#5469113 - 04/01/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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He claimed it would spin to the left because the tanks were off center and there was more gravatational force on the left side.
Wait, tanks? You mean tanks full of something and you're not asking about windmilling effects?
In that case the wheel would not spin at all. No matter which way the tank is oriented, all its weight can be considered as occurring at one single point at the Center of Gravity. It doesn't matter which way it's pointing.
If that weren't the case, your wheel could be attached to a generator and, voila, instant free electrical energy forever. That's called a perpetual motion machine and is impossible.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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defcheck
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: DieCommie]
#5469129 - 04/01/06 09:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok its seems you are agreeing with me and I am arguing my friends case. A force applied to one side would spin the wheel just as much as an equal force applied to the other side at a different time. I do not believe there would be any extra force, like you said the gravitational force would be equal on both sides ( just gravity, no extra weight on either side ). He claims, however, there would be more gravitational pull where the tank hangs farther to the left(my fuck up, TO THE RIGHT) of the bar supporting it.
Edited by defcheck (04/01/06 09:48 PM)
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: defcheck]
#5469179 - 04/01/06 09:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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which tank hangs further to the left? the bottom one? That would cause the wheel to spin counter clockwise if it wasnt for the tank on the top hanging to the right. Because the tank on the top hangs to the right, it balances the tank on the bottom hanging to the left.
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defcheck
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: DieCommie]
#5469198 - 04/01/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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you just answered it right there . it would balance it's self out and not spin at all
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defcheck
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: DieCommie]
#5469205 - 04/01/06 09:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: which tank hangs further to the left? the bottom one? That would cause the wheel to spin counter clockwise if it wasnt for the tank on the top hanging to the right. Because the tank on the top hangs to the right, it balances the tank on the bottom hanging to the left.
i have been saying the wrong direction the whole time. i'm a dumbass. i've been talking about the top tank hanging to the right. regardless of which way or if i got it mixed up the same principal would apply.
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DieCommie

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Re: Allien wheel [Re: DieCommie]
#5469241 - 04/01/06 09:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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if you want to be technically correct (which is the best kind of correct) assuming in a vaccum and with a frictionless axle, it might spin counter clockwise. The force of gravity is weaker the further you are from the center of the earth, thus the top tank would weigh a negligible amount less than the bottom tank. This would cause them to not be balanced.
It would have to be a real big wheel to see this happen though, and having it a vaccum with a frictionless axle would be pretty hard to achieve too. But those are engineering problems, not physics problems
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Diploid
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: DieCommie]
#5469250 - 04/01/06 09:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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if you want to be technically correct (which is the best kind of correct) assuming in a vaccum and with a frictionless axle, it might spin counter clockwise.
Actually no. Technically and otherwise.
Even if you take into account that the top tank would weigh less than the bottom tank, the wheel would be at equilibrium. There would be no motivating force to make the heavier tank at the bottom to start moving up.
Perpetual motion machines are not possible.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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DieCommie

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Re: Allien wheel [Re: DieCommie]
#5469269 - 04/01/06 09:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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oh yea duh
would the center of mass still be at the axis?
edit- to make myself not look like a complete idiot, it didnt think it would be perpetual, i just thought it might not balance and find a new resting position.
Edited by Qubit (04/01/06 09:49 PM)
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Diploid
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: DieCommie]
#5469279 - 04/01/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes, the Center of Mass would be at the axis, but the Center of Gravity would be offset downward.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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tak
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Re: Allien wheel [Re: Diploid]
#5470371 - 04/02/06 09:34 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.
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