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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: what quantum mechanics means to you [Re: Annom]
    #5489932 - 04/07/06 12:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Annom said:
So I do agree with the fact that we can't be sure if they are real. But it is not science to deal with that. Science is about the world we observer/perceive. I call this observed world reality. So reality is not the truth in my definition.

....

Quote:

Does one need to explain what science is in order to understand it? Why don't you tell me what science is, so then we have a definition to go by.




Science is the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena using the scientific method. Science tries to create models of the world we observe(=reality for me) using a system that tries to be as objective as possible.





Sure. I agree, it would be nice if science was practiced like that.

Quote:

Annom said:
Philosophy Of science explains that its purpose is to explain everything we perceive around us in as concise and formal a manner as possible.





Actually, Philosophy of Science has a more complicated body than that. There's a lot of research conducting under the heading "Philosophy of Science" that is critical towards your statement. The two big shot analytical examples: Kuhn & Feyerabend

Quote:

Annom said:
"According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a scientific theory is 'a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses.' No amount of validation changes a theory into a law, which is a descriptive generalization about nature. So when scientists talk about the theory of evolution--or the atomic theory or the theory of relativity, for that matter--they are not expressing reservations about its truth. " - http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=...umber=1&catID=2





Once again, this is very nice, but it has no bearing upon my argument. In addition is it to science that we should look to explain itself and its PRACTICE? Once again, you're referring to the theories and ideals of science, when our discussion started because you intended to criticize my assumptions about the practice of science.
Quote:

Annom said:
Quote:

I think you're still misunderstanding my use of the word "lie". It's not threatening to you in that way -- yet it is certainly a threat.



Please explain to me why it is a threat.





It is a threat in the sense that the practice of science would be radicalized and the actual ideals you speak of might be lived up to.

Quote:

Annom said:
Quote:


It's a lie that the moon causes the tides and it's a lie that A causes B.




We again have a different definition of a word. I agree that it is just a model of what happens, but I would not call that a lie.





That's precisely the lie: the model, the simulacrum, the reduction. The lie is the representation in model, thought, theory. The lie is that which is supposed to be which it cannot be. The lie is that which is not reality. Useful or not.

Quote:

Annom said:
I do understand your point and I do agree with it in some way. I just think that I prefer to use reality as the world we observe it because I like to use logic and can't use logic when I don't assume a objective reality(while I don't say this assumption is correct).

You prefer to look at reality as something we can't never be sure about. I agree with that, but don't like it because I can end all my logic thoughts with that.





I don't think we can end our thoughts with that. I think humans are constantly in a creative position. I only ask that we appreciate the grounds of our theoretical work (that these grounds are lies) and continuing going on making the world...beautiful, even if it is with science.

Quote:

Annom said:
Science is nothing more than a fairy tale, but a very nice one that is way better than any other fairy tale I've ever read  :grin:

Fairy tales are not lies because they don't claim it is the Truth!




Perhaps. But in order to shadow our discussion you should say: Fairy tales are not lies because they don't claim it is the Truth, yet they are lies, because people believe in them as if they were true in some, or all, respects.


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Offlinedanlennon3
LivingIsEasyWithEyesClosed.....
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 19,246
Loc: usa Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: what quantum mechanics means to you [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5490247 - 04/07/06 02:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

well i didnt know anything about quantum mechanics until i watched what the bleep do we know.... but when i watched the Nova special about string theory... IT HIT ME! my friend and I were each on an 8th of potent mushrooms.. we were both feelin good and decided to watch the string theory.. well this movie launched our trip into a level 5! I lost total control but had total control at the same time(hard to explain).We knew everything and nothing at the same time. It was perfect balance. we are experienced trippers and this trip was definately the most intense ever. we had the best time and we didnt even need to do a single thing at the time.. we didnt need to listen to music, we didnt need to explore the woods, nothing... nothing was perfect enough. we just chilled at my house and talked. we had no expectations so when something did happen, like a friend called, we were even happier. Later that night i did go to the woods with a sober friend and i had the most amazing visuals... this was many hours after the peek.. best time of my life


--------------------
"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"



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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: what quantum mechanics means to you [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5490521 - 04/07/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You're getting caught up on the world lie

No, I'm using English as our common means of communicating. I can't read your mind. If you do not mean 'lie', then you should use the correct word.

You're thinking that there's something wrong with lies -- that we must always been honest!

Now you've really lost me. :confused:

Is the thrust of your argument that (almost) nothing can be known objectively? If so, then you're off topic and not saying much anyway as that statement applies to everything, not just QM.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: what quantum mechanics means to you [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5490530 - 04/07/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Also, that is one thing that always fucked me up in regards to QM.... quantum spin. I never could grasp how one full rotation is actually 1 and a half 360's.

I'm not sure what you mean by 360, but the quantum spin number of an electron is about angular momentum, not about actual spin in the macro sense of the word. Electrons have angular momentum (called spin for lack of a better word) but they do not 'spin'.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (04/07/06 05:38 PM)


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OfflineAmethyst
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 132
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: what quantum mechanics means to you [Re: Diploid]
    #5494179 - 04/08/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quantum physics, the science of infinite possibilities :smile: Is it even a science at all?


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."


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