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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter


Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Re: Coltrane's LSD period [Re: Vvellum]
#5466032 - 04/01/06 12:42 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for asking bio, it's nice to think someone even cares!
Well, when bebop first came out critics considered it overly frantic and bombastic. And it is! That's what's so cool about it. The improvised soloing brought out a lot of wildness and freedom. What Parker and Dizzy did brought something to Western music that was basically totally new. It was wild, and if you understand it, it still is. It's a lot easier for us to understand it now than it was for people when it first came out. But still, in bebop they soloed in a certain key for a certain number of measures. Then Ornette came along, I think it was him who said 'If you tell me what key to play in you might as well write my whole solo for me'. For Ornette, he could hear the whole song in his head as soon as it started because he knew every possible 'rule' backwards and forwards. So in order to make it interesting for Ornette he had to break it down further. Tear the rules down to totally open it. Have you heard 'The Shape of Jazz to Come' and 'Free Jazz'? Those are great records to check out the transition from bop to free. What's the classical connection? Well for one thing Bird and Diz were way into Bartok and Stravinsky. But if you want to hear a record that really ties it into the classical stuff check out Cecil Taylor's Unit Structures. And of course Ornette's Skies of America performed with The London Symphony. But I mentioned Ives and Schoenberg because I think they were the most radical. I mean Ives was making wildly dissonant music in America before 1910! People can argue on and on about who was most influential and most point to Stravinsky but for me personally; I love Ives, baby! Charles Ives. I believe there's a connection from Dvorak-Ives-Copland-to Ornette's very underrated Skies. It's something about the American folk tradition put into formal orchestration and then musically pushing the limits that just melts my heart. But anyway, on the 'Free Jazz' record Ornette put a Jackson Pollack painting on the cover and from there the John Cage connection is obvious and it's all about tearing down the barriers and pushing the limits. Coltrane was in the same collective of artists but he's just the best. Coltrane is so great from like Giant Steps on whichever record I'm listening to I always think 'This is the best music ever made for sure!' It's like he's speaking for all of humanity. It's like with sound he's telling us what it means to be human.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Krishna
कृष्ण,LOL


Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
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giant steps seems to me like coltrane's "kind of blue" - where he sticks to modal movements. after that album (and really, miles after kind of blue as well) he went much more "out there", taking abstract modal "sketches" and spreading them throughout a piece. honestly, if i listen to some of the crazier 'fusion' jazz, i have to either pay my entire attention to it, or not listen to it at all, whereas more 'classical' jazz (charlie parker playing some solid be-bop f. ex.) can serve as background music for me..
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter


Registered: 03/01/05
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Re: Coltrane's LSD period [Re: Krishna]
#5466079 - 04/01/06 12:57 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
कृष्ण,LOL said: giant steps seems to me like coltrane's "kind of blue" - where he sticks to modal movements. after that album (and really, miles after kind of blue as well)
Yeah.. the only thing is when I listen to Kind of Blue when Coltrane plays on it all I can think about is how even there he leaves everyone in the dust. I know you're probably laughing at my Coltrane worship but I think he totally steals the show on Kind of Blue and I listen to it for him and not Miles!
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Kaleidoscope
Voodoo Child
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 674
Loc: the 28th dimension
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: Coltrane's LSD period [Re: faslimy]
#5466107 - 04/01/06 01:04 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
faslimy said: i liked coltrane when he was pumped up on heroin and cranking out giant steps, africa brass, blue trane and a love supreme. they always played the best while on heroin those jazz niggas, Charlie Parker for instance would be playing like shit, leave stage for a moment, come back and blow everyones mind.
Well, as far as heroin, Charlie Parker, and jazz go...he even said something like 'if you think that I'm good now, you should hear me when I'm clean.'
honestly, Parker was a great musician, but he was also an addict. Yes he could be at a gig and play like shit, then step out for a tiny bit get his fix and sound better, but thats just because he wasn't feeling like shit anymore. As far as my experience with those sorts of drugs go, they don't make you a better artist, life and all of it's experiences makes a person a better artist.
it's all a matter of opinion though for the most part.
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Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.
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faslimy
Dead Man

Registered: 04/04/04
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i didn't mean to suggest that heroin is the only reason they played good music, i agree
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Kaleidoscope
Voodoo Child
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 674
Loc: the 28th dimension
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: Coltrane's LSD period [Re: faslimy]
#5466143 - 04/01/06 01:18 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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right on bro, I wasn't meaning to sound condescending or anything. just voicing my opinion. I'm glad that you appreciate Charlie's music more than anything.
My history of jazz professor, Nathan Davis, knew him personally and I have spoke to him in his office hours a lot about jazz because I'm so into it.
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Purple haze, all in my brain, lately things just don't seem the same. Actin' funny but I don't know why, 'scuse me while I kiss the sky.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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cool man thanks for replying. I dont know much jazz but I know enough to know that its got the soul...and thats what I look for in music. lots of info in this thread...gonna go pick up a few albums - pay day the other day. time to learn the jazz.
thanks
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wery67564
Stranger
Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 221
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Re: Coltrane's LSD period [Re: Vvellum]
#5469713 - 04/02/06 12:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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huh...a lil bit of info, considering charlies later work, many consider his last year in the studio his best, I am pretty sure he was going through withdrawals, he did eventually get clean and made his best music getting there...I'm not saying heroin makes inferior musicians, just that in jazz, I noticec artists become much more progressive after kicking a habit, LSD is not a habit and is in my opinion the best recreational drug for musical inspiration...
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pantsboy
I troll because I care.


Registered: 10/28/04
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Re: Coltrane's LSD period [Re: wery67564]
#5469745 - 04/02/06 12:56 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I love jazz and I lvoe Coltrane. In fact I just came back less than two hours ago from a major Jazz competition. I played guitar in a combo for the show. It was killer.
Blue Trane and Giant Steps are my two favorite Coltrane albums. I don't really like Love Supreme all that much. it's two abrstract for me and I like it when Coltrane doesn't stray too far from a melody, but I guess that was the entire point of the album: To see how far one could stray and then return back to a melody (Resolution). That album and his later stuff paticularily almsot makes it seem like he was destined to play with Ornette Coleman (as he eventually did). You can really tell from his music that he perceives Jazz as more of an art form or form of expression.
-------------------- Acid doesn't hurt when you're on fire.
"Mushrooms are only similar to penises in their appearance." - LeBron James (2013) ToiletDuk said: "Bus squelching is not to be laughed at."
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grphish
the Modern dayPacman

Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Coltrane's LSD period [Re: pantsboy]
#5469980 - 04/02/06 04:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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man i was just listening to violets for your furs and this topic comes on! damn right man im glad people are into good jazz im sick of these 'tool' shit and lame ska bands taking up the scene, its all about old school jazz and blues
miles davis or coltrane? speaking of , do you know stan getz? joe henderson? thats some bomb ass brazilian jazz and i swear, it got me laid sooooo many times its ridiculous anyone with a bit of space on the web can help me put my jazz brazil cd on, i promise it will make everyone melt in the greatness off that music
keep the drums splashy and take the bass line for a walk
-------------------- BoUnCy BaLL IS All SoUrCe OF LIGhT AnD HaPPiNeSS!!~! *bEEP* *beEP*
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: Coltrane's LSD period [Re: grphish]
#5471850 - 04/02/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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yeah, tool and all that is boring.
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter


Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Re: Coltrane's LSD period [Re: Vvellum]
#5473466 - 04/03/06 03:26 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"do you know stan getz? joe henderson?"
Yeah, I'm familiar with their music.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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bryguy27007
Cosmonaut



Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 10,525
Loc:
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I'm going to go ahead and bump this thread because I've been really digging on Coltrane recently. I listen to mostly his earlier dope works but I need to check out some of his stuff from his LSD period. Great thread.
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