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Offlinekotik
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soy milk vs cow milk?
    #5458333 - 03/30/06 06:06 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Ive been switching over to unsweetened soy milk lately, and it really wasnt a problem. in fact, i like the taste of soy milk, it reminds me of a body builders protein called IsoPure. but anyways, I have been coming across lots of websites that either argue soy > dairy, or that dairy > soy. usually, the same websites are also selling books / products based on their opinions.

does anyone here have some better insight to the two? my reason for switching off dairy is for many reasons, but i am also learning that soy milk may not be very good for you either, although probably better than cow milk. The only other alternative I have heard of was Almond Milk, but ive never seen it before.

p.s. i was surprised no results when searching the forum for "soy milk"


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: kotik]
    #5458376 - 03/30/06 06:52 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

whats wrong with cow milk except it makes you a bit chubby.?


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InvisibleBoom
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: kotik]
    #5458501 - 03/30/06 07:41 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Hmm

I remember a debate over the toxicity of Soy Milk.. I have no sources though.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: Boom]
    #5458919 - 03/30/06 10:07 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

first of all, unless purchasing milk that was made special from cows without bovine growth hormone, and fed on non-GM grass / etc, then your standard gallon of milk is really much much more than that.

there are so many health issues related to milk, especially the way we suck it out of cows that arent even in good enough health to keep themselves alive without humans there.

as for the toxicity of soy milk, has not been proven. there are only a few reports which link it to forms of cancer (what isn't linked to cancer?) and something to do with hormones, but i believe that is only a threat to young children and infants.

The pasteurization process kills most, if not all, resident micro-organisms (including beneficial ones that aid in its digestion and metabolization) and many nutritional constituents. The resulting pasteurized product causes digestive problems, is less nutritional and turns rancid (as opposed to souring) when aging. The pasteurization process also enables the milk industry to raise cows in less-expensive, less-healthy (constrained, crowded and filthy) conditions.

milk also has around 10-12 grams of sugar per serving.


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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: kotik]
    #5459062 - 03/30/06 10:58 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Soy juice*

Can't offer much to you, but Google the words soy and testosterone.


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: kotik]
    #5459240 - 03/30/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i can't think of a single reason why cow milk might be better than soy juice.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: daimyo]
    #5459415 - 03/30/06 12:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

doctor gaylord said:
Soy juice*

Can't offer much to you, but Google the words soy and testosterone.




That's a myth/lie that soy lowers testosterone levels. Mostly spread by companies trying to sell their protein product, and the dairy industry.


Quote:

There is no evidence that the consumption of soy, which contains
estrogenic compounds known as isoflavones, will cause you to "lose
testosterone". Humans have been consuming soy as a source of protein for
thousands of years, particularly in southeast Asian populations.

The primary issue of concern at present is HOW MUCH soy to consume to
prevent/treat prostate cancer. The fact of the matter is, we just don't
know the answer, because the necessary clinical trials in humans have not
been conducted. The evidence to date is from population studies, i.e.,
observing the dietary habits of populations which consume high amounts of
soy (e.g. Japan) and noting a lower incidence of prostate cancer. In the
case of Japan, it has been noted that, upon autopsy, Japanese men still have
prostate lesions, but they are MUCH SMALLER--not having progressed to a
clinically evident state which would pose a problem. This would indicate
that something in the diet is preventing the GROWTH of prostate tumors, and
this has been shown in animal studies with soy compounds. Exposing prostate
cancer cells in culture to isolate components from soy (isoflavones and
protease inhibitors) can significantly reduce prostate cancer cell growth.
Also, in animals, soy has been shown to inhibit the growth of prostate cancer.

So, what is needed is a clinical trial in men at high risk for prostate
cancer (i.g., elevated PSA levels) or who have been diagnosed prostate
cancer. Such a trial is ongoing at the University of Alabama at Birmingham
under the direction of Dr. Stephen Barnes, but it is not yet finished.
However, the men in the study are consuming 20 mg/day of soy protein isolate
which contains 20 mg of isoflavones--not an extremely high amount and a
level that can easily be obtained through dietary means. A list of foods
(per 3.5 ounce serving) has the folowing amount of isoflavones:

green soybeans = 135.4 mg
roasted soybeans = 162.5
tofu = 33.7
tempeh = 62.5
textured vegetable protein = 138.2

I think that incorporating moderate amounts of soy protein into your diet is
a wise decision.

Clare M. Hasler, Ph.D.



http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/archives/experts/health/1997/0610.html


Quote:


Soy beans contain high levels of the isoflavones genistein and daidzein and their glycosides and have been implicated in the prevention of prostate cancer, possibly via their effects on sex hormone metabolism. The aim of this study was to assess the relation between dietary soy intake and sex hormone levels in a cross-sectional analysis of 696 men with a wide range of soy intakes. Soy milk intake was measured using a validated semiquantitative food frequency questionnaire, and serum hormone concentrations were measured by immunoassay. Multiple regression was used to investigate the association between soy milk intake, an index of isoflavone intake, and hormone levels after adjustment for pertinent confounders. Soy milk intake was not associated with serum concentrations of testosterone, free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide, sex hormone-binding globulin, or luteinizing hormone. These results suggest that soy milk intake, as a marker of isoflavone intake, is not associated with serum sex hormone concentrations among free-living Western men.







Cow milk... on the other hand. Is produced by cows, for baby cows.. to raise them to 400+ pounds in a matter of weeks. It is not ideal for human consumption. That's just the tip of the iceberg. The average cow in nature produces 2,000 pounds of milk per year. Today, dairy cows produce over 50,000 pounds year. How you ask? Drugs, antibiotics, genetically engineered bovine growth hormones, forced feeding plans and specialized breeding;
that's how.

That's only the beginning.

I suggest you read this very extensive article on milk - http://notmilk.com/kradjian.html


Bottom line.. soy milk is actually good for you. Cow's milk is linked to an extremely long list of gastrointestinal disorders and a cause of many types of disease and illnesses.


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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5459437 - 03/30/06 12:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You're always there to ruin my fear mongering.  Damn hippie :crankey:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: daimyo]
    #5459503 - 03/30/06 12:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Just spreading the facts :shrug:


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Offlinekotik
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5460239 - 03/30/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

thanks, facts are what i was looking for. i am still a little cautious with soy milk, because from my understanding, soy milk was only recently discovered when they tried selling it... they used to throw the stuff out, its a byproduct of tofu i believe.


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: kotik]
    #5462085 - 03/30/06 11:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Soy is poop.

Rice milk all the way!  But I like normal milk just fine :shrug:


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Offlinekotik
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: AKSE]
    #5462677 - 03/31/06 03:45 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

rice milk doesnt have the health benefits, which is what im after.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: kotik]
    #5462701 - 03/31/06 04:19 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe it started as a byproduct of tofu.. I don't know. But soy milk now (and for many, many centuries in Japan) is made fresh by soaking ground up soybeans in water and then straining/pressing it. You can make your own soy milk if you are so inclined. Which can save you a considerable amount of money. Soy milk is naturally high in proteins, isoflavones and B-vitamins.

Isoflavones are a natural plant hormone.. that reduce the risk of heart disease by inhibiting the growth of cells that forms artery clogging plaque. This improves the cholesterol profile. They also improve bone health and fight osteoporosis. Studies also show isoflavones slowed prostate cancer growth and caused prostate cancer cells to die. Isoflavones act against cancer cells in a way similar to many common cancer-treating drugs. They are also a very powerful antioxidant.

Cow milk, usually has vitamin D added. A vitamin that we need very little of, that we get naturally from spending 15 minutes a day in contact with the Sun. Cow's milk can cause iron deficiencies and can actually increase your risk of osteoporosis, contrary to what the dairy industry claims.

Besides the health benefits, I drink soymilk because it tastes better.
Try it yourself. Drink soymilk for a week, and then drink a nice tall glass of some whole cow milk.
Taste the chemicals and white blood cells..... mmm tasty.


Here's some nutritional comparisons and research studies:

http://www.indoindians.com/food/soy.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...7&dopt=Abstract

http://www.omninerd.com/2004/11/15/articles/20

http://www.all-soy-products.com/a21-soy-milk-vs-cow-milk.php



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Offlinekotik
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5464151 - 03/31/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Besides the health benefits, I drink soymilk because it tastes better.
Try it yourself. Drink soymilk for a week, and then drink a nice tall glass of some whole cow milk.
Taste the chemicals and white blood cells..... mmm tasty.




amen!  and thank you for the links.  :thumbup:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: kotik]
    #5464306 - 03/31/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Invisibleirascible_raunch
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5465405 - 03/31/06 08:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't have any further input (it seems like Shroomism has covered it all) other than to state that I've drank soy milk for years, and I did formerly drink 3-4 glasses of cow milk every day before I switched over, and I haven't noticed any differences in my health. And soy milk (I realize it's not really milk, as pointed out above, but that's what the carton labels it) does taste a hell of a lot better than cow milk.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: Shampioenier]
    #5468596 - 04/01/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I cannot drink cows milk, then I get sick,.. :P


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Offlinekotik
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: Gomp]
    #5470738 - 04/02/06 12:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.mercola.com/2000/apr/9/soy_research_update.htm

that link pretty much outlines all of the "evils" of soy. would anyone care to pick it apart?


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OfflineDarcho
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: kotik]
    #5474451 - 04/03/06 12:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Bean beverage rules! Mammal milk... well, I think that the information in this thread should be sufficient in rating mammal milk. One thing I also heard (not sure if this was mentioned), is that with all the hormones being put into cows to make the produce more milk, they get some sort of utter infection which causes their utters to become over-sized and saggy. When these cows are milked it is not rare for puss, yes puss, from the infected utter to get into the milk product. Now that is delicious. Go bean, or go home!

I recently made the switch, about three months ago, and it is definitely better. Mix twelve fluid ounces of vanilla bean drink with three scoops of strawberry protein powder, and you have yourself a tasty, notoriously fortified drink.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: soy milk vs cow milk? [Re: kotik]
    #5475753 - 04/03/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
http://www.mercola.com/2000/apr/9/soy_research_update.htm

that link pretty much outlines all of the "evils" of soy. would anyone care to pick it apart?




no. It's too long and filled with bullshit science and fear campaigns against vegetarians. It doesn't have links to credible research studies and references. I read most of it. It mostly focuses on overconsumption of soy in a non-balanced diet, and tries to scare people with tangents of subjective incidents and scary words, painting it as some sort of evil toxic bean from hell. There are no straight-forward approaches. It goes off on tangents. It tries to scare people away from a vegetarian diet with claims like vegetarian women are more likely to give birth to boys with hypospadias, a birth defect of the penis. And that vegetarians suffer from iron deficiencies and whatnot. I'm not even about to go through it all and debunk everything, as that would take me hours. Soy is not poisonous. Do the research.

No one should use soy as their primary source of protein. And it shouldn't be your primary source of nutrients. Grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes.. lots of water. That's a healthy balanced diet. Soy is not a miracle food, it's just an easy source of vegetable protein. And it should not be your ONLY source of protein. A diverse diet is best, everything in moderation. Overconsumption of any food and lack of another can cause imbalances.

HEMP is the only miracle protein.


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