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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5464241 - 03/31/06 02:09 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
How about your response to the initial question and the point why well-armed drug users are so utterly submissive to tyranny.





Because they're too busy getting stoned?

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OfflineDreamer987
The VerbalHerman Munster
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Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 5,326
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Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5464245 - 03/31/06 02:10 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Tyranny... lets see, i don't know much about that.
Having a shitty represive government (like the bush administration) isn't enouph to make people start firing they'r guns. Its when the governement steps in, and starts murdering people, that will cause the general publics survival instinct to kick in. That happened not to long ago with the nazis.
It happens all over the world as we speak.
Take a look at Rio de Jenero Brazil. The documentery "News from a personal war" On the movie "City of God" ot to satisfy your desire to see gun owners/drug users fight back against the government.
Your taking a piece of an argument, and picking it apart. Look at the big picture. The problem is not just with governments, and wars, fighting, and killing, but with individual people, crime, preditors, and whatnot.

"So do we agree that the "tyranny" stuff is just a meaningless soundbite and that rapists are the real reason we need an armed populace?"

No, you have your opinion, and i have mine. You haven't one us over just yet.


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OfflineDreamer987
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Registered: 04/15/03
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Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5464265 - 03/31/06 02:16 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

O.k. drug user/gun owners, CHARGE!
Massive assault agains the government for putting me on probation for weed! Aghhh!

oh wait, no one is following me.
It's not going to happen. If it satisfy's you, yes, we drug users aren't a strong enouph momement to launch an assualt on the government of the United states of America. You'v won that argument.


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Dreamer987]
    #5464337 - 03/31/06 02:32 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

It's not going to happen. If it satisfy's you, yes, we drug users aren't a strong enouph momement to launch an assualt on the government of the United states of America. You'v won that argument.

So can we think of any likely form of tyranny a well armed populace would fight against?

If Bush introduced an even more stringent patriot act would the average gun-owner unpack his peice and start blasting?

I guess one of the fundamental problems of this idea of "gun-owners leading the revolution" is the fact that most gun-owners are heavily to the right anyway. You'd need to reach a pretty advanced stage of tyranny before the average NRA member thought it was a tyranny.

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OfflineMitchnast
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Registered: 10/27/99
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5464437 - 03/31/06 02:55 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I read it as "How would gun-owners "fight tranny"?"
and the first thing that popped in my head was:
"well, you could shoot her dick off"

I think the right to bear arms really only creates a problem.
the ability to kill eachother is a bad thing. In reality, however there are those who WISH to harm or kill people.

conclusion, the right to bear arms cannot possibly be used to fight tyrrany as only people too insecure or too malevolent to "step up" to bring around a real "greater good" really observe such a right.

insecure people use guns to protect themselves and their family/possesions. They aren't going to risk a coup.

malevolent people aren't going to want a greater good, they will simply want to dominate, malefact, or destroy.

Secure people don't need guns and good people don't want them.

therefore I beleive the "right" is only there because of mans selfish personal security, and it is toted as national security so that nobody would take that right away and leave them at the mercy of the malevolent.

realistically, tyranny is nigh unstoppable by the common person who doesn't fully expect to be killed in the process.

the paradox is that those who have guns, aren't likely to expect to die. thats why they have guns. so why do they need to fight? they already have their guns so they're all set.

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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: kotik]
    #5464456 - 03/31/06 03:03 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Quote:

UK doesn't have an armed populace. Doesn't have tyranny.




yes, well you didnt START with tyranny either, its a monarchy. Lets say it turned into a tyranny tomorrow. then what? Its not the lack of guns that keeps tyranny away, your logic just hurt my head




england started EXTREMELY tyranical. feilds of people were butchered, the poor were shit on by the wealthy, the rule of monarch was absolute. NOW it's a democracy. THEN it was an armed populace. NOW it isnt.
WHAT ther heck are you saying?

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5464674 - 03/31/06 04:30 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

why well-armed drug users are so utterly submissive to tyranny.

because like i said, guns in citizens' hands do not in and of themselves create a situation where tyranny cannot take hold. for that matter, neither does democracy, freedom of the press, a constitution, or due process.


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5465980 - 04/01/06 12:25 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

conclusion, the right to bear arms cannot possibly be used to fight tyrrany as only people too insecure or too malevolent to "step up" to bring around a real "greater good" really observe such a right.


Sounds about right mitch.

If the armed american drug users had fought for their right to take into their bodies whatever they wanted I'd be for every country in the world having gun ownership. But it doesn't work like that. American drug users are armed and still utterly oppressed. In fact I have no doubt if Bush wanted to introduce mandatory life imprisonment for drug possession tomorrow he could do so without armed drug users doing a damn thing.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: wilshire]
    #5466354 - 04/01/06 03:17 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

because like i said, guns in citizens' hands do not in and of themselves create a situation where tyranny cannot take hold

What you actually said was:

for those who seriously contend that private gun ownership does not help prevent or reduce tyranny, i ask again

So you arn't one of those who argue that the jews would have fought back if there'd been gun shops in the Nazi era? Because that's an awfully common argument among the pro-gun lobby.

And if you do believe the jews would have fought back, why do you think drug users don't fight back?

Forget about the death camp side of things - concentrate on the first 6 years of Nazi rule when they were just persecuting jews by throwing them out of their jobs, jailing them etc. Standard persecution techniques that are being done to drug users all over America every day as we speak.

You are all armed to the teeth. Why don't you "fight back"?

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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5466359 - 04/01/06 03:21 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

some jews did fight back. There was a huge unerground resistance.
you are aware that there was a HOLOCAUST not to long ago. Read up on it.
They say if you don't learn about it, history is doomed to repeat itself.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Dreamer987]
    #5466365 - 04/01/06 03:26 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

you are aware that there was a HOLOCAUST not to long ago.

Read the last post again. Lets try and get some rational thinking happening here.

First 6-8 years of Nazi rule. No holocaust. No gas chambers. Just standard persecution. Do you think the jews would have fought back against this persecution if there'd been gun shops?

And if so, why don't american drug users fight back now?

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Invisiblegiz
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Male

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
Loc: EU
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5466579 - 04/01/06 06:05 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

drug users fight back against us goverment tyranny. now that would be some headlines and a quik way to get yourself in prison or killed.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: giz]
    #5466603 - 04/01/06 06:25 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

drug users fight back against us goverment tyranny. now that would be some headlines and a quik way to get yourself in prison or killed.

Exactly.

Millions upon millions of drug using americans armed to the teeth. Number of them "fighting back" against tyranny with their weapons?

Zero.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5466847 - 04/01/06 09:22 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

What tyranny?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5466882 - 04/01/06 09:38 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Your missing the fact that they are drug users. They are either way too stoned to lift a finger, too cracked out to care about anything, or too hippie like to consider violence. And why the hell would drug dealers fight back? If anything they would fight to keep drugs illegal. But drug dealers do fight back. Maybe you dont live in a gang infested city, but here they do gunfights with the police on a regular basis. But there purpose isnt revolution, its racist hatred, greed, and daily survival. So they will never make a change.

There are times for violent revolution and times for peacful ones. The drug war, like the civil rights movement will best be served by a peacful one. Things are bad enough to warrent a violent revolution imo. Id rather just not smoke pot and live my cushy life. Im with zapp, "What tyranny?"

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: DieCommie]
    #5466950 - 04/01/06 10:02 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

They are either way too stoned to lift a finger, too cracked out to care about anything, or too hippie like to consider violence

That's a pretty harsh view of drug users. I've met plenty of drug users who were pretty sharp. And look at a few news clips - the hippies did some pretty aggressive stuff.

Id rather just not smoke pot and live my cushy life. Im with zapp, "What tyranny?"

So you don't consider throwing people in jail for smoking pot counts as "tyranny"? You'd rather just stay on your knees and do as you are told rather than "fight back"?

Going back to the initial questions, what form of "tyranny" would make you fight back?

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5466965 - 04/01/06 10:07 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
They are either way too stoned to lift a finger, too cracked out to care about anything, or too hippie like to consider violence

That's a pretty harsh view of drug users. I've met plenty of drug users who were pretty sharp.


Yea me too, but I dont think it would be proper to judge the whole group based on a few smart ones.
Quote:

Alex213 said:
Id rather just not smoke pot and live my cushy life. Im with zapp, "What tyranny?"

So you don't consider people in jail for smoking pot counts as "tyranny"?

So what do you call "tyranny"? Would throwing people jail for belonging to a certain political party be tyranny?



Not if its the communist party.

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: DieCommie]
    #5466978 - 04/01/06 10:10 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Yea me too, but I dont think it would be proper to judge the whole group based on a few smart ones.


Ok, so why arn't the smart ones fighting back against being thrown in jail? You're all armed. The NRA claims guns are a "defence against tyranny". Do something.

Not if its the communist party

Going on how pussywhipped the right-wingers sound maybe the commies are the only chance against tyranny we've got.

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5467088 - 04/01/06 10:58 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, that is the answer. Give control to the communists, I am sure civil liberties would increase tenfold!!


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5467132 - 04/01/06 11:13 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I ask again, what tyranny? Anti-drug laws are the result of meddling nanny-statists who wish to protect you from your own stupidity. Like taking 15% of your income to make sure you can eat cat food when you can no longer work, because you would surely be too stupid to save it yourself. Neither, however, rises to the level of tyranny. Or do you find drug use to be a necessity?


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