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Offlinecloned
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Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 20
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5462802 - 03/31/06 05:15 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i think everyone should have as much guns as they want, anyway its the man behind the trigger. you don't need guns to kill, you can just hit them in the Head with a rock or strangle them while they are sleeping...
I might be completely wrong but i don't think its increase of murders are exactly the guns fault. Sure pulling a trigger is way easier then seeing the guts spill out from a dead mans stomach, but it still needs a lot of hate and determination to walk up to your enemy and shoot him in the forehead.
I only own kitchen knifes my self but I'm sure they're all i need if i really need to kill someone

Edited by cloned (03/31/06 05:19 AM)

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,379
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: cloned]
    #5462827 - 03/31/06 05:46 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I think guns would help protect someone on an individual level.

However if there were true tyranny it would be difficult to take out the United States military with rifles and buckshot. It would be possible to have small pockets of resistance which could keep tyrants at bay, but with time, I think the resistance would be overthrown. I'm envisioning a situation similar to Iraq. The insurgents won't ever "win" but they're making their point, and making life miserable for a lot of people in the process.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

Edited by badchad (03/31/06 05:55 AM)

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: badchad]
    #5462853 - 03/31/06 06:07 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

giz stated:

the best weapon against tyranny is not citizens with guns, its building up a society and political systems where people doesn't have to be paranoid that their own government wants to hurt them in some way. but ey, we cant all live in scandinavia i guess


Pure and utter ideological non sense, that only holds true on paper, much like the socialistic system Europe embraces.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Invisiblegiz
daydreamer
Male

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
Loc: EU
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5462877 - 03/31/06 06:30 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

and owning guns to fight tyranny is less non sense how? and you say socialistic system only holds true on paper, what exactly do you mean?

i think its pretty darn obvious that something is wrong with the entire society if a large part of the nation fears tyranny and needs to arm them self to protect themself, why is a society like this a role model for any other country? it sounds more like a middle east taliban country than a western society to me when people are afraid of their own goverment that way

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: giz]
    #5462890 - 03/31/06 06:43 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

From a civil war book I have read several times:

"Pointing fingers changes to pointing guns, because no one listins to pointing fingers"


A very simplistic statement on how guns are a decision maker. If we lived in a peaceful world were government was not corrupt, and everyone hopscotched to work, guns would not be needed. However, this is not the case.


If you were to ban all guns, people would shoot each other with arrows, then knifes,and so on and so on.......

Why should governments fear citizens with guns?

As for the socialistic form of government, I was referring to how good it sounds when you read socialistic viewpoints (on forms of government)from a textbook or such.....however there is no real application in the real world, much like a pipe dream.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5462897 - 03/31/06 06:48 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

giz stated:
it sounds more like a middle east taliban country than a western society to me when people are afraid of their own goverment that way


You are wrong. Precisely the opposite is true. I was in Afghanistan. The Taliban BANNED all weapons, unless you were apart of their cause.
The reason: oppressed people with no guns cannot fight back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Invisiblegiz
daydreamer
Male

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
Loc: EU
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5462918 - 03/31/06 07:00 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i dont want out goverment to ban guns or anything, they are needet for hunting and whatever, and of course if another nation would invade us like nazi germany did we should have guns availble.

but i dont belive my goverment would invade my home, i dont expect tyranny to come from our elected goverment. the us goverment may do that, i dont know anything about that, but i dont think this is an issue in our pipe dream world.

of course there is corruption here ,like everywhere else, but not on the level of tyranny against its own population

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Rono]
    #5463232 - 03/31/06 09:15 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rono said:

If everyone shared your attitude, the cops would shoot first and ask questions later.




"Shoot first, ask questions last."

I think that slogan is painted on all the cop cars down here in Texas :smirk:

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Offlinewilshire
free radical
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Registered: 05/11/05
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: giz]
    #5463301 - 03/31/06 09:46 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i think its pretty darn obvious that something is wrong with the entire society if a large part of the nation fears tyranny and needs to arm them self to protect themself

is there anything wrong with a society in which a large part of the nation fears housefires and traffic fatalities and needs to install smoke detectors and wear seatbelts to protect themselves?

there are people who are not satisfied with relying on government as the finally protector of their life and liberty. considering the events of the past century, this is entirely understandable.

for those who seriously contend that private gun ownership does not help prevent or reduce tyranny, i ask again:

which would be an easier population to subdue:

1. one with weapons and the skills to use them, or
2. a disarmed population which is otherwise identical to the first

?


--------------------


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Invisibleshriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: wilshire]
    #5463316 - 03/31/06 09:54 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I was wondering, based on whatever events, what kind of tyranny can you expect the us goverment to do to its own population? Does people fear home invasions? enslavement? what is this tyranny exactly?

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: kotik]
    #5463378 - 03/31/06 10:15 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Lets say it turned into a tyranny tomorrow

In what sense?

Have you ever used drugs? Do you feel drug users are treated in a tyrannical manner?

I just wonder what kind of "tyranny" would actually make you "fight back". Because here are all you drug users, armed to the teeth and instead of "fighting back" you are meekly submitting to a tyrannical regime that throws you in jail for smoking weed.

What kind of "tyranny" would be enough for you to stop shitting yourselves and actually "fight back"?

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: badchad]
    #5463417 - 03/31/06 10:28 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I think guns would help protect someone on an individual level.


So would a tasar?

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OfflineDreamer987
The VerbalHerman Munster
Female

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 5,326
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5463446 - 03/31/06 10:40 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

A Tazer?
Have you ever used one? Most barely work. Some don't work on big guys. You have to get close enouph to someone to touch them. Or if you have the ones that shoot, you better hope you get them on the first shot.
To disable someone with a low risk of injury in a bar fight, mabey. To stop government troops, from rounding up your loved ones, and sending them to Death camps. Gime a break

The real question is, what if they have a gun?


--------------------

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Dreamer987]
    #5463461 - 03/31/06 10:45 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

The real question is, what if they have a gun?

Then they would shoot you from behind before you even knew what was happening much less had any chance to "draw" your gun. Just to make sure you didn't shoot them.

However if they suspected someone didn't have a gun maybe they wouldn't feel the need to execute you first?

To stop government troops, from rounding up your loved ones, and sending them to Death camps.

Arn't the government already rounding up your loved ones and sending them to prison for taking drugs? What difference has an armed populace made?

Fuck all difference. Right?

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5463485 - 03/31/06 10:53 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

what is your response to my posts in this thread?


--------------------


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: wilshire]
    #5464006 - 03/31/06 01:23 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

How about your response to the initial question and the point why well-armed drug users are so utterly submissive to tyranny.

I mean - if armed american drug users rose up with their weapons and forced the government to back down I'd be supporting everyone having a gun to the hilt.

That doesn't happen tho. All we get is some vague "Oh, we'll rise up against some form of tyranny someday...you bet..just not now". I'm interested in what tyranny would actually make you get off your ass and fight?

I'm not interested in the "If Hitler gained power..." stuff. That's not going to happen in America. Lets just stick with reality and say a right-wing government is passing ever more extreme drug laws. How does being armed help you stop them?

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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5464085 - 03/31/06 01:36 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

because most of us bleieve there is a peacable way to achieve our ends. With a little determintaion and understnading of the democratic process we can everntually win ourselves a home.

If we rose up against tyranny for the sole purpose of legalizng drugs we our hands we be covered in the blood of innocents. The multitudes that would ultimately die because we bastardized our country and all it stands for, their blood would cover our hands and we would be no better than the ones we fight. Its an all or nothing proposition, if we go to war, we go to war, and you either stand with us or you stand against us. The ripple effect would be ar reaching.

Battle lines would be drawn and people would choose, people who at this very moment are not even in the game, they would be the innocents forced to make decisiojn because of our selfishness.

there is a war being fought, its a war of information, the soldiers are everywhere, dressed like you and I. Some in suits in Washington.

We had a major victory with Alito.

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5464136 - 03/31/06 01:44 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Ok so you're happy to stay crawling on your bellies over the tyranny of the drug war. That's one example of tyranny we've got and the gun owners have done absolutely fuck all. Having a "well-armed populace" has proved to be of no consequence whatsoever. Bush and Ashcroft just do whatever the fuck they want and the gun-owners kneel down and gag on it.

All the way down to the BOLTS  :shocked:

So when are gun-owners going to get off their knees and DO SOMETHING?

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OfflineDreamer987
The VerbalHerman Munster
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5464157 - 03/31/06 01:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Ummm, lets see. Fighting back physicly against the government in the drug war is a battle we could not win. We have to use information, and what not, to even begin, but honestly not enouph drug users care.

"I'm not interested in the "If Hitler gained power..." stuff. That's not going to happen in America."
Ummm Hellow? That whole thing went down 60-80 years ago. There are still lots of people alive today who remember that incident, and aren't so quick to say "it will never happen"
We are human. Not some enlightened race, of peaceful non-violent beings. Throughout Human history war, and violence run rampant. Just because we have computers, credit cards, and ipods dosen't mean that we have shaken the tendency for gross, and brutal violence.
It is niave to believe that the American empire will last forever. The way things are going, we are going to fall, and hard.
How would you have like to been alive in America during the revolution, and not had a gun to protect your family from the British?
Or how bout the civil war, would you have laid back, and took it while hords of Rebel, and Yankee troops pilliaged, and terrorized the countryside.
What if your one of the millions of Americans, who is victimized by street crime . You gonna let somebody take your $? How bout your wife. What the fuck would you do if some asshole decided to have his way with your wife. Thats not a fantasy world. Women are raped every day. If the rapists are armed, what are you gonna do about it?


--------------------

Edited by Dreamer987 (03/31/06 01:51 PM)

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Dreamer987]
    #5464195 - 03/31/06 01:58 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Ummm, lets see. Fighting back physicly against the government in the drug war is a battle we could not win. We have to use information, and what not, to even begin, but honestly not enouph drug users care enough.


Well, what I've been looking for from my first post is an idea of what "tyranny" you WOULD get off your knees to fight.

Ummm Hellow? That whole thing went down 60-80 years ago

Yeah well can we just for the moment assume that Hitler isn't going to come back anytime soon and no-ones going to be sending jews to death camps. Why do you need your guns? What form of tyranny are you going to fight if you are too shit-scared to fight the drug war tyranny?

The way things are going, we are going to fall, and hard

What I'm getting is you think that guns are going to be useful for when the apocalypse comes and you are Charlton Heston in the Omega Man. Ok.

Is there any way guns are useful for fighting tyranny before we get to the planet of the apes stage?

Or how bout the civil war, would you have laid back, and took it while hords of Rebel, and Yankee troops pilliaged, and terrorized the countryside.

Don't run away with the idea that you need legally available guns for people to get guns. The insurgents in Iraq arn't buying their rocket launchers at the Baghdad Walmart you know.

Women are raped every day

So do we agree that the "tyranny" stuff is just a meaningless soundbite and that rapists are the real reason we need an armed populace?

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