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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"?
    #5457971 - 03/30/06 01:05 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

A lot of gun-owners make the argument that unless they have guns they would be unable to "fight tyranny".

I'm guessing this is merely a soundbite phrase that has no meaning. But if possible could any gun owners explain precisely how you would "fight tyranny" with your guns and what aspects of this "tyranny" would actually drive you to "fight" it?

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OfflineDarcho
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Registered: 07/26/04
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5458334 - 03/30/06 06:07 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Most likely the people who are supporting the tyranny (i.e. the policing units) will have guns. Fight fire with fire: a fist is not going to do much against a man armed with a rifle. How would you fight tyranny with a gun? By shooting it.

What aspects of tyranny would drive you to fight it? That would probably have to be the tyrannical aspect, what else.

For some reason, I think that you did not think very much when formulating these questions, since the answers seem so obvious.

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Offlinerawtoxic
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Darcho]
    #5458360 - 03/30/06 06:31 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

You could make the argument that without nuclear weapons you can't fight tyranny especially if the tyrants have nuclear weapons.

Correct merely a soundbite.

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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5458363 - 03/30/06 06:38 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

o.k. i'll bite.

I well armed populace is the best control against tyranny.
I'm sure we've all heard that before. Most comon arguments are that every dictatorship in history has tried confiscating all weapons before rising to power, most recent example would be the Nazi's.
If the government came in, and started really stepping out of line.. joe Q tax payer could spray some buckshot at the jackbooted thugs, and in theory fight them off.
I don't know the exact definition of tyranny, but if you outlawed guns, than only law abiding citizens would lose there weapons, and ability to defend themselves. It would be a golden era for robbery. Any thug with gun would be garunteed a populace unable to fight back.
Right now think about robbing somebody. Than think about the amount of the population that are armed with concealed weapons. Makes it dangerous to talk out of line, or even hit your women on the street!

So that said. In this day and age, i bet the government knows, that no matter what bullshit they pull. It would be damb near imposible to pry guns out of the hands of Americans. If they were going to take them away, they would have to have a really cleaver scheme, or have a way of taking power, with some kind of better weapon to overpower the citizenry.


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Offlinewilshire
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Registered: 05/11/05
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5458524 - 03/30/06 07:49 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i don't understand why this is so hard for you to imagine. armed citizens have been an important factor in many conflicts, and in some cases the deciding factor. it's not a soundbite phrase with no meaning, it's a matter of historical record. armed citizens matter.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: wilshire]
    #5458595 - 03/30/06 08:38 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

The same way I have fought meth addicts from ripping me off(more than a litttle sarcastic analogy there :wink: )I corner them with  my 480cal ruger and tell them to either cease and desist or desist forever. It works.As for "tyranny" when enough folks have had their fill of government intrusion we will see a rash of "terrosits" putting a cap in the intruding element.
Time is coming IMO.
WR


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5458808 - 03/30/06 09:37 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
But if possible could any gun owners explain precisely how you would "fight tyranny" with your guns and what aspects of this "tyranny" would actually drive you to "fight" it?





Its quite simple: 

If the police ever kicked my door in, I would shoot them.  I have no desire to go to prison.  If I were to die in a hail of bullets instead, then so be it.  I bet I could take out at least 3 or 4 of them before they got me :smile:

If everyone else shared my attitude, people wouldn't be afraid of police, police would be afraid of people.

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OfflineRonoS
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5458896 - 03/30/06 09:57 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

"If everyone else shared my attitude, people wouldn't be afraid of police, police would be afraid of people"

If everyone shared your attitude, the cops would shoot first and ask questions later.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

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Invisiblegiz
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Rono]
    #5459139 - 03/30/06 11:18 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

the best weapon against tyranny is not citizens with guns, its building up a society and political systems where people doesnt have to be paranoid that their own goverment wants to hurt them in some way. but ey, we cant all live in scandinavia i guess

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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5459164 - 03/30/06 11:31 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
I'm guessing this is merely a soundbite phrase that has no meaning.



Whatever happened to educated guesses? Have you become so slap ass crazy that you've resorted to taking shots in the dark? Or are you just trying to provoke people into making statements you can easily refute in an attempt to boost your ego?


Quote:

Alex213 said:
But if possible could any gun owners explain precisely how you would "fight tyranny" with your guns



Ready, aim, fire. That simple.

If it gets to the point where the masses are so fed up that they MUST have change, armed revolt will play a vital role.

Quote:

Alex213 said:
and what aspects of this "tyranny" would actually drive you to "fight" it?



Hard to say. I'll let you know if it happens though.

Quote:

rawtoxic said:
You could make the argument that without nuclear weapons you can't fight tyranny especially if the tyrants have nuclear weapons.



And you'd be incorrect and sound like a fool. You may not be able to win quite as easily, but your opponent having nuclear weapons does not negate your ability to fight.

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Correct merely a soundbite.



Too much superbity. Get over yourselves.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Rono]
    #5459232 - 03/30/06 11:50 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)


If everyone shared your attitude, the cops would shoot first and ask questions later.


if everyone shared my attitude, there wouldn't be any cops and there wouldn't be anyone shooting at anyone either.


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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: rawtoxic]
    #5459316 - 03/30/06 12:11 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rawtoxic said:
You could make the argument that without nuclear weapons you can't fight tyranny especially if the tyrants have nuclear weapons.

Correct merely a soundbite.




whgat would be thye point of a tyrannical government nuking its people, seems counter productive to me. You can't a have a government if there are no people to govern.

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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5459509 - 03/30/06 12:57 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
A lot of gun-owners make the argument that unless they have guns they would be unable to "fight tyranny".

I'm guessing this is merely a soundbite phrase that has no meaning. But if possible could any gun owners explain precisely how you would "fight tyranny" with your guns and what aspects of this "tyranny" would actually drive you to "fight" it?





The hardest part about combatting tyranny is recognizing it. I mean we live in fairly free society right now, its not perfect by all means, it could be much worse.

I supposes the things that would drive me to the point of no return would be the subjugation of the free peoples, when people were no longer allowed to work for themselves but had to work for their government.

When people were no longer allowed to voice dissent or concern.

When people were no longer allowed to roam freely, meander at will.

When these things happen, may fire fall from the sky and peirce the very souls of the opressors.

I will take aim and spray paint avenues with many enforcers life blood, I will improvise and make dow with what litwle I got. I will fight from the shadows. I will fight and run away so that I may live to fight another day.


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Asshole

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OfflineTurn
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #5460094 - 03/30/06 02:51 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
A lot of gun-owners make the argument that unless they have guns they would be unable to "fight tyranny".

I'm guessing this is merely a soundbite phrase that has no meaning. But if possible could any gun owners explain precisely how you would "fight tyranny" with your guns and what aspects of this "tyranny" would actually drive you to "fight" it?




In the poor south those people have lots of high powerd guns and not much to loose. They are crazy! Trust me they would put up a fight by shooting lots of goverment agents. Of corse if the goverment was real cozy with the crazy militia crowd then only us normys would be oppressed.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Turn]
    #5460246 - 03/30/06 03:35 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i think an even better question is:

How would non-gun-owners "fight tyranny"?


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Invisiblebukkake
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Registered: 05/28/05
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: kotik]
    #5460306 - 03/30/06 03:51 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

The old fashioned way. Bottle, gasoline, paper.

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: kotik]
    #5460328 - 03/30/06 03:56 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

in certain contexts they can do alright. see the indian response to british colonialism or african americans and civil rights.

i don't think that it's right to claim that firearms are the only protection against tyranny, or that they're the best protection, or that they're a guarantee against tyranny. far more important are other factors like a culture that values liberty and is willing to make a stand for it. widespread private gun ownership isn't going to magically produce a free society. look at afghanistan.

it's also false to claim that they are useless in that regard. proper liberals scoff at the idea, but we're not necessarily talking about a righteous few armed civilians taking on an entrenched despot with a unified, powerful military behind him and winning (though that is certainly not impossible either).

consider these scenarios:

1. a civil war in which there are professional military forces on both sides.
2. an invasion from a foreign power.
3. a popular revolt, joined by defecting military forces, against a weakening despotism.
4. complete breakdown of order due to a natural disaster, terrorist attack, or any of the above scenarios.

these are all situations in which citizens might, to their advantage, become active in open combat.

that isn't even considering the deterrence effect that it might have. the knowledge that the citizens of a nation have weapons and are skilled in their use has a great potential to effect policy and military decisions without them ever needing to fire a shot.

it's not even a hypothetical. it's happened. all over the world. it's a matter of historical record. armed citizens can make a difference.

here is a question:

which would be an easier population to subdue:

1. one with weapons and the skills to use them, or
2. a disarmed population which is otherwise identical to the first

?


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Darcho]
    #5462582 - 03/31/06 02:20 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

How would you fight tyranny with a gun? By shooting it.That would probably have to be the tyrannical aspect.



What aspects of tyranny would make you "shoot" back? Is the law against people using drugs tyranny? Would a law against jews or blacks be tyranny?

Currently drug users are jailed at will. I don't see armed drug users making much of an impression against this form of tyranny. In fact the exact opposite seems to be true. The only thing that's going to make any progress is peaceful discussion.

So against what "tyranny" would gun owners be of use?

Try not to go back to history and some "If Hitler was reborn and came to power in America with the assistance of Satan then I would shoot at someone with my saturday night special" kind of argument. Try and give me one example that's likely to happen today that would be best resolved by shooting at people.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: kotik]
    #5462589 - 03/31/06 02:23 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

How would non-gun-owners "fight tyranny"?


UK doesn't have an armed populace. Doesn't have tyranny.

Iraq has well-armed populace (and are clearly tough people who are damn prepared to fight) and had Saddam for 20 years.

Go figure.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: How would gun-owners "fight tyranny"? [Re: Alex213]
    #5462678 - 03/31/06 03:48 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

UK doesn't have an armed populace. Doesn't have tyranny.




yes, well you didnt START with tyranny either, its a monarchy. Lets say it turned into a tyranny tomorrow. then what? Its not the lack of guns that keeps tyranny away, your logic just hurt my head


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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