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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineACN45
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 160
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
My Views on Iraq are Changing
    #5457535 - 03/29/06 10:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

At first i thought the iraq was the worst war ever, Bush just thumped his chest and blundered into a conflict that hurt the american people while he and his cronies got richer. While this is the case to an extent I have realized that the middle east will be a conflict point in the next 20 years because of oil. Oil is going to be the single defining point for my generation aside from global warming. Once peak oil occurs hell is going to break loose and every industrialized country is going to be fighting eachother. China and Russia see this thats why they are supporting Iran so much, its their Iraq without the war in a way. Its a given. If Bushs plan works and there is a peaceful and pro-american Iraq in place it will prove to be startegically invaluable. Amazingly enough I think Cheney and Bush realize this and thats why they are in Iraq. I have no problem with the Iraq war being an oil war because I am a realist. Our economy will collapse with just the hint of a fuel shortage. The real crime that Bush is doing is his policy of increased oil consumption. I feel he realizes the crisis that is going to occur yet he is doing nothing about it. Bush is still a fuckup but the Iraq war may actually be the best thing that comes out of his presidency. And anybody that has seen my posts realizes that this is a complete 180 on what i normally say.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
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Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
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Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: ACN45]
    #5457564 - 03/29/06 10:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

maybe putting more research into alternate fuel methods will be much more effective then starting war in Iraq, and since when did you think that any of Iraqs oil will make the world supply cheaper, Iraq's oil is going to pay off the reconstruction,

Of course oil will be a major conflict, can you say Iran and Venezuela.


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Offlinepeace_n_love
Soldier of Knowledge
Male

Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 186
Loc: Canada :)
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #5457744 - 03/29/06 11:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly what The_Red_Canyon said. For

http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182

that amount of money being spent you would think that if Oil was the real problem he could have put that money towards research to finding alternate oil replacements and then saved the lives of tons of people.

peacefulness.


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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: peace_n_love]
    #5457779 - 03/29/06 11:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Converting our energy plants, refiniries, cars, etc. might a bit more expensive than capturing oil supplies.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Offlinepeace_n_love
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Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 186
Loc: Canada :)
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: downforpot]
    #5457791 - 03/29/06 11:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Monetarilly, I think it would be almost equivelant but the price of innocent soldiers and people dying. There is no price you can put on that. Not to mention the possible beneficial environmental effect it would have on the world.

Peacefulness.


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: ACN45]
    #5457831 - 03/30/06 12:13 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Oil is key to the invasion of Iraq but I'm not sure Bush is thinking along the lines of securing oil for the future of the american people. His key goal is increasing the short-term profits of a few buisness executives in the oil industry. Any problems that occur when oil runs out can be passed onto everyday people. By then the oil executives and their families will be living behind 60 foot high electrified fences and safe from any unrest. Why should they care.


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Offlinepeace_n_love
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Registered: 02/02/06
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Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: Alex213]
    #5457983 - 03/30/06 01:13 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well put Alex, I think that that is all the bush administration and many others are worried about. The short term gain no matter the long term loss. Depressing but true.


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OfflineBasilides
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Registered: 02/10/06
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Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: ACN45]
    #5458003 - 03/30/06 01:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

As much as this invasion was evil, an immediate pull out would simply be cruel for Iraqis. It would probably piss them off in the sense that it was some kind of cruel joke.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
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Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: ACN45]
    #5458062 - 03/30/06 02:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I have come to pretty much the same conclusion. The decision to go to war on Iraq seems totally insane except in the context of the coming oil/energy crisis. Then it makes perfect sense. It's incredibly immoral of course, but that never stopped anyone before. Historically, most wars have been fought over scarce resources but explained to the people at the time as a noble effort. The people don't learn the true motivations until the history books have been written.

One of the first acts of the Bush admin's first term was the formation of the secret Energy Task Force, remember? The issues discussed there must have been incredibly important to them given the fact that it was dealt with immediately. What could have been so important regarding energy that it was dealt with first and in secret? Hmmmm..


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: zorbman]
    #5458194 - 03/30/06 04:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

> What could have been so important regarding energy that it was dealt with first and in secret?

$$$$$'s and more $$$$$'s


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinebeatnicknick
The Innovator
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Registered: 05/25/05
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Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: ACN45]
    #5458581 - 03/30/06 08:32 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ACN45 said:
At first i thought the iraq was the worst war ever, Bush just thumped his chest and blundered into a conflict that hurt the american people while he and his cronies got richer. While this is the case to an extent I have realized that the middle east will be a conflict point in the next 20 years because of oil. Oil is going to be the single defining point for my generation aside from global warming. Once peak oil occurs hell is going to break loose and every industrialized country is going to be fighting eachother. China and Russia see this thats why they are supporting Iran so much, its their Iraq without the war in a way. Its a given. If Bushs plan works and there is a peaceful and pro-american Iraq in place it will prove to be startegically invaluable. Amazingly enough I think Cheney and Bush realize this and thats why they are in Iraq. I have no problem with the Iraq war being an oil war because I am a realist. Our economy will collapse with just the hint of a fuel shortage. The real crime that Bush is doing is his policy of increased oil consumption. I feel he realizes the crisis that is going to occur yet he is doing nothing about it. Bush is still a fuckup but the Iraq war may actually be the best thing that comes out of his presidency. And anybody that has seen my posts realizes that this is a complete 180 on what i normally say.




If you think this is going to help us economically, we have spent an estimated not 500 million, not 500 billion, but one trillion dollars on the Iraq war that has so far made us nothing. If anything we can hope the oil there can cover some of the war costs. But nomatter how you look at it, Haliburton gained. They profited. It's actualy a business method, I forget the name, but it starts with an E. What you do is find a third party to take the burden of work in order to increase profit. Haliburton had the connect to do this with Iraq. And their profits boomed while america seeped into debt. They basically let a corporation run America, and by run I mean fucked in the ass.


--------------------
I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.


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Offlinepeace_n_love
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Registered: 02/02/06
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Loc: Canada :)
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Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5459040 - 03/30/06 10:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Haliburton profited not to mention companies like Lockheed & Martin and other arms dealers and manufacturers. Everybody in the Bush administration seems to be taking very good care of their close friends.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: ACN45]
    #5459436 - 03/30/06 12:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

So are you saying that you oppossed the war until you found out that Bush may be protecting the country from poverty, then you decided it was ok?

I kind of understand that. The idea of another great depression is pretty frightening. I just don't think that even comes close to justifying this war. Especially when you look at how things are turning out. If the only way to keep America's current economic system in place is to go invade countries, kill people, and then put corrupt governments into power just so they will sell us oil, then personally I don't want to be a part of America's economic system. I'd rather be poor.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Offlinedaimyo
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Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 19 hours
Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5459462 - 03/30/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
I'd rather be poor.



You say that now, but would you hold fast in your principles when your choice for meals was rats or the dead guy on the corner?


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Registered: 11/23/04
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Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: daimyo]
    #5459469 - 03/30/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

or you have two children staring up at you with those large innocent blue eyes, wondering why they are going to bed hungry for the third nite in a row.


--------------------
Asshole


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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5459495 - 03/30/06 12:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
So are you saying that you oppossed the war until you found out that Bush may be protecting the country from poverty, then you decided it was ok?

I kind of understand that. The idea of another great depression is pretty frightening. I just don't think that even comes close to justifying this war. Especially when you look at how things are turning out. If the only way to keep America's current economic system in place is to go invade countries, kill people, and then put corrupt governments into power just so they will sell us oil, then personally I don't want to be a part of America's economic system. I'd rather be poor.





Buddy, I didn't have shit when I came to this country. Now my family has a house, 3 cars, free college. I WILL KILL FOR AMERICA. This country is the motha fucking shit, PERIOD


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: ACN45]
    #5459551 - 03/30/06 01:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

that is good that you are beginning to understand the stakes.

The only thing I wish done differently is the way in which the war was communicated to us. The pretense, it really made me angry.
We have a right to know, we are a strong people and a people able to hear the truth.


--------------------
Asshole


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: daimyo]
    #5459689 - 03/30/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

daimyo said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
I'd rather be poor.



You say that now, but would you hold fast in your principles when your choice for meals was rats or the dead guy on the corner?




See I just don't agree that a collapse in the economy means the end of the world. Everybody thinks that mass poverty in the US would be like the apocalypse and we'd have to go around eating each other's corpses. Over 90% of the world lives in povery, they don't eat each other. We didn't eat each other during the great depression. It was a hard time, but we got through it. I guess I'm just more optimistic.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #5459703 - 03/30/06 01:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

nakors_junk_bag said:
or you have two children staring up at you with those large innocent blue eyes, wondering why they are going to bed hungry for the third nite in a row.




All the more reason not to have children.

You'll never get me to say that financial security is more important to me than my morals, and my morals obligate me to oppose the Iraq war. I'm not scared of poverty. I'm not scared of dying. I'm scared of giving in to fear and letting it cloud my sense of justice and who I am.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineTurn
Hey Its Free!

Registered: 12/14/04
Posts: 367
Loc: The fabled catbird seat
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Re: My Views on Iraq are Changing [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5460071 - 03/30/06 02:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
See I just don't agree that a collapse in the economy means the end of the world.




Were talking about OIL! It is the world! Without oil there is nothing, no production, nada.

But as to the topic: Yeah your right, mayby it will all work out, alot of people argue we invade Afganistan for oil too. There is alot of oil in central asia, but no easy way to get it out, and the Afgani goverment was too unstable to put a pipeline through, but now that we have military bases scatterd through...


Edited by Turn (03/30/06 02:46 PM)


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