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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



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Wild Ipomea exctract
#5449221 - 03/27/06 09:59 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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i collected a bunch of 'wild' MG seeds from gardens etc. and i want to do an extraction to see whats in there.
if i get anything at all, is there any chance im getting something thats not LSA? does any1 know of any poisenous stuff in wild, or any ipomea plants?
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Tinkal
Green Thumb



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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5449897 - 03/28/06 03:03 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'd suggest throwing your experiment away. There is a slight chance these wild ipomeas could have LSA.
-------------------- Ask me about my seed collection and trading! "Of all the things I love the most, my mind is what I miss the most"
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Vertigo6911
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5449913 - 03/28/06 03:18 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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well i dont realy care about yield or anything, im just satisfying my curiosity...
but can i run into anything dangerous from unknown strains of ipomea?
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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jben
Don't panic, it's organic

Registered: 05/24/04
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5450134 - 03/28/06 07:15 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wild ones could be toxic. I have a sweet link of the different species:
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=IPOMO
I won't do all the research for you but this should help identify what kinds you found. From that, you can identify, then research them individually. I hope this helps, it was the best link i could find.
-------------------- Don't panic, it's organic!
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jben
Don't panic, it's organic

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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: jben]
#5450158 - 03/28/06 07:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Here are a list of toxic plants in texas:
http://www.surgery.uthscsa.edu/stpc/plants-k-o.asp a few Ipomoea are toxic.
http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/plantbio/1995-July/007398.html This one is weird?
http://www.nsis.org/garden/family/morning_glory.html morning glories found wild in florida, however it says none of these are toxic? yet in texas moonflowers are toxic? with all of this flimsy data, i would be careful if you plan on testing your extract.
-------------------- Don't panic, it's organic!
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Vertigo6911
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: jben]
#5450178 - 03/28/06 07:32 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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ahh moonflower is datura, very dangerous. but ipomea is not related to that, strange to see the reference to ipomea there...
ipomea has pharbitin, does any1 know if that solluble in acetone? is that the nauseating thing of the MG seed?
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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giz
daydreamer


Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5450187 - 03/28/06 07:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Actually moonflower is also common to call Ipomoea spp ie. Ipomoea alba and Ipomoea noctiflora.
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Vertigo6911
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5450194 - 03/28/06 07:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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mmm well im not sure how to id mine since i dont have a lice sample.
they are commen weeds here though, they have a well erned rep for being a nightmare once they get in your hedge...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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shroomydan
exshroomerite


Registered: 07/04/04
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5450411 - 03/28/06 09:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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What you are describing sounds like Bindweed (Convolvulus sepium). These wild 'morning glories' contain no LSA, but the roots have been used as a laxative.
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Tinkal
Green Thumb



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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: shroomydan]
#5450547 - 03/28/06 09:48 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Bindweed seeds actually have some LSA in them too, but only about 1/3 to 1/2 the LSA of the domesticated Morning Glory. Farmers hate both of them, for their vines can choke off other plants. BTW, they are related to the sweet potatos, but they are not related to the nightshade type potatos.
-------------------- Ask me about my seed collection and trading! "Of all the things I love the most, my mind is what I miss the most"
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Vertigo6911
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Tinkal]
#5453567 - 03/28/06 11:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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mmm a 3rd would be a good yield imo. the thing is these things act as 'hardy' here. meaning the winter doesent kill the roots or seeds or whatever and i can guerilla farm these things 1000X as much as i can grow regular MG in my house and the gardens of avery1 know who has one...
i could turn the neigborhood into a LSA factory :P
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Tinkal
Green Thumb



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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5454011 - 03/29/06 05:12 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes, but you could use HBWR or Ololiuqui instead! A little more diffucult but way much better. This year I am starting 4 HBWR and my Ololiuqui goes to the second year! In my opinion, growing 10 ololiuquis in your neighborhood would be the BEST idea!
-------------------- Ask me about my seed collection and trading! "Of all the things I love the most, my mind is what I miss the most"
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5454027 - 03/29/06 05:39 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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u think that would work in my climate? im in zone 8...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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giz
daydreamer


Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5454063 - 03/29/06 06:48 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I dont think neither rivea or hbwr will do too well in your garden in netherland, hbwr beeing close to impossible for you to grow outdoors and rivea will not give you too much seeds allthough it might grow just fine in your garden otherwise.. morning glories is a far better choice for a garden in netherland. With morning glories you have the best bet for the highest yield of LSA outdoors. I dont concider any of these three plants to be suitable to grow indoors but I have a rivea and hbwr in my plant room but they have never flowered yet (3-4 year old plants) I havent really tried to flower them either. As for the other vines with small amounts of LSA they are simply not worth it because they have more of the crap that will give you stomach pains and stuff like that. Extration process is more difficult due to presence of other unwanted chemicals, allthough none of them concideret to be highly toxic as far as I know (so eating them will probably not kill you just gives you a trip with more discomfort)
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: giz]
#5454075 - 03/29/06 07:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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well with this batch im doing an acetone wash and then an alcohol extraction, that should get rid of most of the nasty stuff...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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giz
daydreamer


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Posts: 651
Loc: EU
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5454085 - 03/29/06 07:18 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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dont replace NP solvents with acetone. pet ether or xylenewill do a far better job at washing the seeds. Acetone will give you an emulsion.
and after wash: Extract with ethanol/methanol evaporate solvent re-dissolve residue in distilled H20 Bassify to PH 8.5 Extract 3x w/ DCM
this will give you a much cleaner end result.
Edited by giz (03/29/06 07:40 AM)
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Vertigo6911
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5454095 - 03/29/06 07:27 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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ehh im kinda new at this and im not sure what i have access to.
im a noob working with coffee filters and whiskey glasses here :P (incidently the same glasses that served as jars in my fisr shrooming ventures)
can you explain the emulsion thing? are you saying the acetone adds stuff?
also how about zippo fuel for washing? i know i can get that.
oh and whats DCM?
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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giz
daydreamer


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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5454157 - 03/29/06 08:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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emulusion doesnt add anything in the process, here is the wikipedia entry for it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulsion
DCM:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichloromethane
The process is really not that difficult as it may seems and the solvents used isnt difficult to obtain. , im in a hurry now but i can explain it later or you can read the mother of all LSA extraction threads here, I hae found all my info for LSA extraction here mostly:
http://forums.lycaeum.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=001154&p=
zippofluid is naphta based fluid , i have been very sceptic to using this solvent 1) because of possible impurities in the lighter fluid, 2) because naptha is poorly non polar solvent to begin with
but I have not really looked much into zippofluid as solvent so others may answer that for you better,
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: giz]
#5455031 - 03/29/06 12:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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so this emulsion makes it so not 100% of the bad stuff can be flushed out?
though it may be easy to find these chems in the US, believe when i say it isnt here. ill have a hard enuff time finding a hardware store employee who even knows wtf id be talking about...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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giz
daydreamer


Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5455281 - 03/29/06 01:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
so this emulsion makes it so not 100% of the bad stuff can be flushed out?
simply put, yes.
and as for gettin hold of chemicals, you might want to search\ask on this message board http://www.chemieforum.nl where you can hold of various solvents, they will know. . i belive that DCM is produced in netherland btw.
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felixhigh
Scientist


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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: giz]
#5455631 - 03/29/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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i have lots of bunk HBWR seeds from a plant i grew... does anybody knows if they have any LSA?
FH
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Kerr
Who else would I be

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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: felixhigh]
#5455651 - 03/29/06 03:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well there is only one way to find out
-------------------- "Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us" -Playdo the philosophiser
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felixhigh
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Kerr]
#5455682 - 03/29/06 03:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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heh! i tried up to 25 seeds. actually i felt a mild something but it was really short, compared to the real thing. but that could have been placebo. the question remains unanswered. like vertigo, i fear bad stuff into the seeds that could come out together in an extraction...
FH
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Vertigo6911
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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: felixhigh]
#5457739 - 03/29/06 11:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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well my worries are brought down to how much nauseating agents im getting along with the LSA if any...
im wondering though how much i need to get rid of to be left with a reasonably comfortable experiance.
could the color of the end product be an indicator of how clean it is? cuz i did this twice with homegrown MG's (mixed verieties, not including blue or perly gates etc.) and the result was yellow resin type stuff that hardened out, not the red/brown gunk described in the TEK.
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



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Re: Wild Ipomea exctract [Re: Vertigo6911]
#5466571 - 04/01/06 05:57 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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well i finished my experiment and the result wa prettymuch what you guys predeicted: roughtly a 30% yield vs regular MG's of heavily polluted product.
i think aside from having less LSA, these seeds also have alot more of all ofthe other stuff...
still, if i can introduce these things in the neigborhood i could get to a point of harvesting pounds of them each year. but then id still have to make the extraction process both cleaner and alot cheaper...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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