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OfflineRambel
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Registered: 07/09/05
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Delicate subject... looking for input.
    #5448616 - 03/27/06 06:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I am doing an article on abortion. I am researching all positions on the matter and am looking to you guys for input.

I understand that this may be a sensitive subject for some. The last thing I want to do is to offend, upset, or make anyone on here feel uncomfortable.

I am looking to see what your opinions on this matter are. Should the government be allowed to regulate who can have one and who cannot? Is it acceptable under certain situations? Is it up to anyone but that individual to decide if it is acceptable? To each their own? Never?

What do you think?
Please keep in mind the sensitivity of this subject when replying.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: Rambel]
    #5448868 - 03/27/06 08:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

the only thing that pisses me off about it is that mothers have more say in the matter than fathers.

for example, if I impregnate a woman, who's unborn child is that? Ours? Or hers? According to the law, its basically hers. She can abort it, give it up for adoption, or have it (in which case I have to pay for her decision). I have no say in the matter. Thats bullshit.

A woman's choice should not be a man's responsibility. Not only that, if the man doesn't want the abortion, what gives the woman the right to kill his child?

but as far as abortions in general, I think they're the greatest invention since sliced bread. The last thing we need on this planet is more people.

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: Rambel]
    #5448871 - 03/27/06 08:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I am personally against abortion as sex is a very sacred thing that should be done responsibly. In certain cases I sympathize and understand with abortion choices, which is not to say that I agree or disagree with them, but view them more favorably in contrast to others.

Though yes some of the people that get abortions should be getting them for argument that they are in a bad environment and would produce unproductive and perhaps "dangerous" children I cannot overemphasize the value of human life at all.... and if something is carried through into consciousness inside of you.... if you have a conscious being inside of you..... I believe it is fundamentally wrong to kill it, moreso the more developed it becomes.

We cannot view the world in statistics and probablities when it comes to human life. You're in the ghettos and the kid would be better off dead? Then if he's better off dead why is he being born? Give him up for adoption then... I do not accept these kinds of arguments, personally...... but it seems the people who shouldn't be having kids are the ones getting pregnant and having abortions.

Now..... regulation? Once something is banned reform is a shrill pipe-dream.... ask any stoner.......... but I do think there need to be limits.

Why not adoption? WHY? I mean... you don't want to go through child-birth, that is more than understandable... who would? But would you want to be killed!!! That would be so much worse to be killed than to go through child-birth, and, eventually, fetuses are capable of sensing and feeling pain.

Not remembering much about being born it's hard to say.... if one were still in "bardo" (and this is where moral philosophy crosses with spiritual views) that is to say, one not yet inhabiting a body, rather loosely bound to the mother but still largely a disembodied "spirit" having your current body of choice terminated would not necessarily be harmful to you as you could probably attach to another.....

but once you RESIDE in a human body and you are an infant, I do believe based upon psychedelic experience, memory, intuition, and general feeling... that infants feel everything VERY INTENSELY and without break. They do not know how to focus away from pain which is why they cry constantly at the very minorest of things.

To be birthed and then abandoned to slowly die of lack of attention..... or to be brutally salted to death or any number of things is just foul and asburdly evil.

If abortions are done I feel that they should be done with massive amounts of painless drugs once consciousness is developed. When is conscoiusness devleoped? Well that's up to science to ascertain.

But it should really never be an option, why not adoption? If you were raped.... that's terrible, it really is..... but isn't being murdered and denied a life pretty shitty too? Why not find your child a loving home if you are unwilling to keep it? I sympathize then..... it's a tough choice and the guilt beared for having made it serves as "punishment" enough....

So basically, morally... I am against it.... but legally I think it should be an option for those who feel that they need to seek it. We do not want back-alley abortions or abandoned babies.

But............. don't get pregnant if at all possible unless you want to.

Quote:

DoctorJ said:

for example, if I impregnate a woman, who's unborn child is that? Ours? Or hers? According to the law, its basically hers. She can abort it, give it up for adoption, or have it (in which case I have to pay for her decision). I have no say in the matter. Thats bullshit.

A woman's choice should not be a man's responsibility. Not only that, if the man doesn't want the abortion, what gives the woman the right to kill his child?




absolutely if you have a father willing to take care of the child but the woman has the say in abortion that is straight fucked.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (03/27/06 08:14 PM)

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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: Rambel]
    #5449860 - 03/28/06 02:18 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.

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OfflineRambel
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #5451653 - 03/28/06 03:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you for your responses.

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Offlinehabitat0789
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: Rambel]
    #5452948 - 03/28/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

pro-choice right here


--------------------

ilove my woods...

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InvisibleFreedomFight
Strange

Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 427
Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: habitat0789]
    #5453835 - 03/29/06 12:46 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Adoption is probably a better option IMO. However, I don't think anyone will miss a dead fetus plus we COULD be getting valuable stem cells for the rest of society. Come on people, miscarriages happen all the time and no one charges those women with manslaughter.


--------------------
I do not grow anything illegal.
I do not sell anything.
I am, however, a very curious individual.
I also try to be helpful.

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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: Rambel]
    #5453838 - 03/29/06 12:48 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Abortion is sick. The conditions of abortion should be such that both parents are executed along with the child.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: daimyo]
    #5455604 - 03/29/06 03:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

this would make the world a more peaceful place how?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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OfflinePeyote_Princess
dreamer
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Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 92
Loc: My own Island...
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: leery11]
    #5455878 - 03/29/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Personally I would choose not to have an abortion... now I'm 20 so perhaps it would be different for someone younger, but I've always felt this way - I'm also in a stable relationship, so again that can be a factor in the decision.

I cringe when I hear of a girl having an abortion without discussing it with her bf/the father; still distresing if she/they don't have a parent or guardian to discuss it with.  Fairly recently in the UK there was much discussion in the media about underage girls (under 16) having abortions without parental knowledge - that's scary... without the pregnancy issue, its a surgical procedure that has risks - I like to think most parents/guardians should know before their child undoes something clinical.

Disability is a big issue... a family friend has 1 Downs Syndrome child - and had a pre birth check on the last... it was downs & she decided to abort it - but I know it was the hardest thing she and her hubby had to do...

It does boil down to a matter of opinion, but I'd endorse people looking at ALL possible options... including adoption

Peyote_Princess xXx :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Was I talking? ... Did they hear me?"

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: Peyote_Princess]
    #5455962 - 03/29/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Should the government be allowed to regulate who can have one and who cannot?




depends which level of government.  for federal, no, the government should be concerned with the safety of our nation as a whole, and the already-born citizens that need help.

Quote:

Is it acceptable under certain situations? Is it up to anyone but that individual to decide if it is acceptable?




thats a quandry... basically, if its OK for one person to do it, it should be OK for everyone to do it.  Whether its because of rape, immaturity or health complications.

Quote:

To each their own? Never?



I say that whoever out there opposes abortion better have at least 3 adopted kids, or shut their fucking mouths.  :mad2:

hah not really mad, but anticipating responses.  :thumbup:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflineRambel
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Registered: 07/09/05
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: kotik]
    #5456062 - 03/29/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

One woman I talked to had an abortion when she was 20 years old, that being roughly 5 years ago. She was in a relationship with someone, things started to go bad, and a week after they broke up, she found out she was pregnant. She told the father, and decided to have an abortion. As soon as the procedure was done, she instantly regretted it.
With the the increase in hormones, the grief of the break-up, and just the over all alien emotions she felt due to being pregnant, her judgement, she felt, had been clouded.
Abortion is almost considered a common procedure these days, and with the exposure it receives in movies, and in books, it was almost as if she was desensitized to the whole thing.
She told me that looking back, yes, she had a choice, but it was almost as if she was a zombie "going through the motions."
I am pregnant....
I am not ready to have a child...
I will have an abortion...
The reality of what she had done did not sink in until it was too late.
Do you feel that society is partially to blame for making it seem like the next logical step when in a situation such as hers?
At current rates, an estimated 43 percent of American women will have at least one abortion by the age of 45.
What are your thoughts?
Do we educate more? If we do, will we desensitize women to the procedure and lessen the importance of making your own decision?

In Canada, abortions are free, and walk in appointments are acceptable. Does that make it too easy? Should it be that easy?

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Offlinedaimyo
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Registered: 05/13/04
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: leery11]
    #5457064 - 03/29/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
this would make the world a more peaceful place how?



Who said anything about peace?


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: Rambel]
    #5459627 - 03/30/06 01:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

My views on abortion are kind of mixed, so sorry if this post jumps all over the place  :tongue:

I feel that any woman should be allowed to choose whether or not she has a baby, because it is her body.  That being said, it disgusts me when women use it as a form of birth control.  I have friends that have had 2 or 3 abortions, and it's like, look, once I can understand, if you get pregnant by accident and are not in a situation to carry it and raise it, and do not want to put it up for adoption, then by all means have an abortion if you want to.  But twice?  Three times?  Christ, go on the fucking pill or use one of the countless forms of birth control available. 

Me personally, I am on the depo-provera shot.  I have had a miscarriage once, but never an abortion, and honestly, I'm not sure that I would be able to bring myself to have an abortion after going through a miscarriage once.  If I was in a situation (as I am now) that I have a stable relationship, family support, and a healthy living situation, I would have the child and keep it.  I would also not rule our adoption, but truthfully, if I carried a child and delivered it, I know damn well I wouldn't be able to give it up when the time came to do so. 

I think more education, and more education EARLIER is necessary.  Education for women AND men about methods of birth control.  Maybe they should see an abortion on TV or something, and see what it entails.  Or listen to a lecture by someone who has gone through one, and get that perspective.  I don't think "society" is to blame for individual's choices, I think that's a cop out.  However, I feel like abortions are so readily available and fairly inexpensive that some people abuse it instead of being more responsible in terms of contraception.  I do think that children/adolescents are having sex younger and younger, and the education system needs to realize that and have sex ed classes earlier.  :thumbup:


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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OfflineRambel
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: Liz]
    #5459811 - 03/30/06 01:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Three abortions? Geez. You see, my first reaction to that is that it is disgusting. It angers me, and grosses me out.

It does bring up a good point. For those that are pro-choice, can you really draw a line when it comes to the number of abortions a woman can have in a lifetime? If there is nothing wrong with having AN abortion, then why not have five? Whats the big deal?

Is abortion one of those things that is only acceptable to have once and only once? Its ok the first time, but after that.. NO WAY. A get out of jail free card if you will. Only vaild once.

See I dont know. When someone says they have had an abortion, it is sad, but you dont think much more of it. Someone says they have had two or three??? I raise an eyebrow.. ya know?
If we are allowing them to happen can we really put a limit on how many someone can have? Where do you draw the line? Or do you?

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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: Rambel]
    #5459851 - 03/30/06 02:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think that technically you CAN draw the line as to what is acceptable and what is not. People should just look at abortion as more of a "last resort" than they do right now.

The otehr factor is, there are always going to be exceptions, like, a woman needing an abortion for medical reasons, or someone who was raped, or incest, ya know?

I don't think there should ever be any "rule" as to how many a woman is entitled to have - but I do think that it's disgraceful when women don't take act responsibly when they have sex.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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OfflineRambel
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: Liz]
    #5459974 - 03/30/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with your point on an earlier start of sex education. I think that the school curriculum should cater to the times. Children are exploring their sexuality at a younger age, and I think that is not being properly addressed.
Maybe a better understanding of your body and what it does at a younger age will result in a better understanding of life, and responsibilty. Who knows!

Edited by Rambel (03/31/06 02:04 PM)

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: Liz]
    #5461290 - 03/30/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Liz said:

I feel that any woman should be allowed to choose whether or not she has a baby, because it is her body.




if its her body, and her choice, then it should be her responsibility- ie: NO MORE CHILD SUPPORT.

I'm all for pro-choice, but if thats the way its gonna be, if the father is not part of the decision, he sure as hell shouldn't have to pay for the kid if she decides to have it. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5464019 - 03/31/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
the only thing that pisses me off about it is that mothers have more say in the matter than fathers.

for example, if I impregnate a woman, who's unborn child is that? Ours? Or hers? According to the law, its basically hers. She can abort it, give it up for adoption, or have it (in which case I have to pay for her decision). I have no say in the matter. Thats bullshit.

A woman's choice should not be a man's responsibility. Not only that, if the man doesn't want the abortion, what gives the woman the right to kill his child?

but as far as abortions in general, I think they're the greatest invention since sliced bread. The last thing we need on this planet is more people.




It goes against everything that is natural.

Sex is a natural process, the effects of sex are alsoa part of the way things are ordered. It is unfair for all f humanity and the reprecussions vast beyond understanding when a dumbass man and woman have a child they are not ready for and thus need to abort. It is irresponsibility of the most extreme sort. The penalty should be harsh and long for those who commit so vile an act aganst all that is organic. Also people who are getting people pregnant wheterh it be the woman who traps a man or a man who impregnates a woman and then lets their child grow up hatng his life because neither were prepared for child rearing should be killed, the child given to a family that can provide for it. Dead beat parents are the lowest form of humans, after habitual thieves and rapists and non justified murderers.

In the cases of rapes, the child should be carried to term and then promptly put up for adoption.

In the cases of birth defects, logically speaking it would seem prudent to abort, in the wild the defected offspring would surely starve to death as the mother would devote her energy on offspring that were better suited.

my thiugts are cold and clloused, but so is life, live it or leave it.


--------------------
Asshole

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #5465213 - 03/31/06 07:17 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The basis on something whether it be good or bad based on whether it is natural or not. Anasthesia is unnatural and so is life support yet these are vital things.

Were facing an overpopulation and a poverty problem in the world right now. What makes you think that rearing up a unwanted child wont fix this problem.

How many of you remember you infancy? How many guys here remember in infancy being circumcised? Do you remember the pain from it?

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Invisibleirascible_raunch
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #5465436 - 03/31/06 08:31 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I'm pro-choice - no exceptions. Every woman is entitled to make her own choice, and it's none of my damn business.

I do think it's unfair that many men don't have an equal say regarding their partner's abortion, but one of my mottos is to just say no to sex with pro-lifers. You shouldn't be fucking someone without thinking of the potentiality of getting pregnant, or causing a pregnancy. And if you don't want children, yet are pro-life, you ought to think a little harder about the consequences of sex, and the fact that pregnancy is always possible, even with birth control & a condom.

But yeah, I'm vehemently pro-choice.

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Offlinenakors_junk_bag
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Re: Delicate subject... looking for input. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #5467530 - 04/01/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

boos for life support.

I know, you are gonna say have you ever had someone on life support. Yeah, we pulled the plug.

I dont even go to the doctors, ever.

regardless. it stand in direct opposition to my ideals.

The poverty problem is simple to fix, quit giving them shit. If they don't have nergy ot fuck they can't breed more poverty prone children. It is called an s curve and everyone should have learned about it in 6th grade science.

If you introduce food into a population the population will grow proportionally.
I also said, you may have missed it, to put the child up for adoption, there are plenty of people who would gladly raise a child, themselves being unable to reproduce.


--------------------
Asshole

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