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InvisibleVoidOfsPg
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U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars
    #5444422 - 03/26/06 03:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

HOUSTON -- For the first time since 1972, the United States is planning to fly to the moon, but instead of a quick, Apollo-like visit, astronauts intend to build a permanent base and live there while they prepare what may be the most ambitious undertaking in history -- putting human beings on Mars.

President Bush in 2004 announced to great fanfare plans to build a new spaceship, get back to the moon by 2020 and travel on to Mars after that. But, with NASA focused on designing a new spaceship and spending about 40 percent of its budget on the troubled space shuttle and international space station programs, that timetable may suffer.

Still, NASA's moon planners are closely following the spaceship initiative and, within six months, will outline what they need from the new vehicle to enable astronauts to explore the lunar surface.

"It's deep in the future before we go there," said architect Larry Toups, head of habitation systems for NASA's Advanced Projects Office. "But it's like going on a camping trip and buying a new car. You want to make sure you have a trailer hitch if you need it."

Scientists and engineers are hard at work studying technologies that don't yet exist and puzzling over questions such as how to handle the psychological stress of moon settlement, how to build lunar bulldozers and how to reacquire what planetary scientist Christopher P. McKay of NASA's Ames Research Center calls "our culture of exploration."

The moon is not for the faint of heart. It is a lethal place, without atmosphere, pelted constantly by cosmic rays and micrometeorites, plagued by temperature swings of hundreds of degrees, and swathed in a blanket of dust that can ruin space suits, pollute the air supply and bring machinery to a screeching halt.

And that says nothing about the imponderables. Will working in one-sixth of Earth's gravity for a year cause crippling health problems? What happens when someone suffers from a traumatic injury that can't be treated by fellow astronauts? How do people react to living in a tiny space under dangerous conditions for six months?

"It's like Magellan. You send them off, and maybe they come back, maybe they don't," said planetary scientist Wendell W. Mendell, manager of NASA's Office for Human Exploration Science, during an interview at the recently concluded Lunar and Planetary Science Conference here. "There's a lot of pathologies that show up, and there's nobody in the Yellow Pages."

In some ways, the moon will be harder than Mars. Moon dust is much more abrasive than Mars dust; Mars has atmosphere; Mars has more gravity (one-third of Earth's); Mars has plenty of ice for a potential water supply, while the moon may have some, but probably not very much.

Still, the moon is ultimately much more forgiving because it is much closer -- 250,000 miles away, while Mars is 34 million miles from Earth at its closest point. If someone needs help on the moon, it takes three days to get there. By contrast, Mars will be several months away even with the help of advanced -- and as yet nonexistent -- propulsion systems.

Not having to pay as dearly for mistakes is one key reason why the moon is an integral part of the Bush initiative. The other, as even scientists point out, is that if the United States does not return to the moon, others will.

"The new thing is China, and they've announced they're going to the moon. The Europeans want to go; the Russians want to go; and if we don't go, maybe they'll go with the Chinese," Mars Institute Chairman Pascal Lee said in an interview. "Could we bypass the moon and go to Mars while India and China are going to the moon? I don't think so."

Bush's 2004 "Vision for Space Exploration," by calling for a lunar return and a subsequent Mars mission, set goals, which, if achieved, would keep the United States in the forefront of space exploration for decades.

Since then, mishaps and delays with the space shuttle and the space station programs have shrunk both the moon research budget and the rhetoric promoting the mission.

Instead, NASA Administrator Michael D. Griffin has focused agency attention and resources on the design and construction of a new "crew exploration vehicle" and its attendant rocketry -- the spacecraft that will push U.S. astronauts once again beyond low Earth orbit.

Despite the moon's current low profile, however, NASA continues to plan a lunar mission and to promote the technological advances needed to achieve it. Toups, one of the moon program's designers, said NASA envisions that a lunar presence, once achieved, will begin with two-to-four years of "sorties" to "targeted areas."

These early forays will resemble the six Apollo lunar missions, which ended in 1972. "You have four crew for seven to 10 days," Toups said in a telephone interview. "Then, if you found a site of particular interest, you would want to set up a permanent outpost there."

The south pole is currently the top target. It is a craggy and difficult area, but it is also the likeliest part of the lunar surface to have both permanent sunlight, for electric power, and ice, although many scientists have questions about how much ice there is. Without enough water, mission planners might pick a gentler landscape.

Site selection will mark the end of what McKay calls Apollo-style "camping trips." "There's got to be a lot more autonomy, so we keep it simple," McKay said. "We're going to be on Mars for a long time, and we have to use the moon to think in those terms."

The templates, cited frequently by moon mavens, are the U.S. bases in Antarctica, noteworthy for isolation, extreme environment, limited access, lack of indigenous population and no possibility of survival without extensive logistical support.

"The lunar base is not a 'colony,' " Lee said. " 'Colonization' implies populating the place, and that's not on the plate. This is a research outpost."

Once planners choose a base, the astronauts will immediately need to bring a host of technologies to bear, none of which currently exist. "Power is a big challenge," Toups said. Solar arrays are an obvious answer, but away from the poles 14 days of lunar sunlight are followed by 14 days of darkness, so "how do you handle the dormancy periods?"

Next is the spacesuit. Apollo suits weighed 270 pounds on Earth, a relatively comfortable "felt weight" of 40 to 50 pounds on the moon, but an unacceptable 102 pounds on Mars. "You can't haul that around, bend down or climb hills," Lee said. "Somehow we have to cut the mass of the current spacesuit in half."

And the new suit, unlike the Apollo suits or the current 300-pound shuttle suit, is going to have to be relatively easy to put on and take off, and to be able withstand the dreaded moon dust.

After three days, Apollo astronauts reported that the dust was causing the joints in their suits to jam, "and we're not talking about three outings," Lee said of the next moon missions. "We're talking about once a week for 500 days -- between 70 and 100 spacewalks."

Dealing with dust is also a major concern in building shelters on the lunar surface. Toups said it might be possible to harden the ground by microwaving it, creating a crust "like a tarp when you're camping." Otherwise, the dust pervades everything, and prolonged exposure could even lead to silicosis.

Dust also makes it virtually impossible to use any kind of machinery with ball bearings. Civil engineer Darryl J. Calkins, of the Army Corps of Engineers Cold Regions Research and Engineering Laboratory, warned that the combination of dust, low gravity, temperature swings and the high cost of flying things to the moon is going to define the lunar tool kit in unforeseen ways.

"You can't put a diesel up there; you can't put a 20,000-pound bulldozer up there; and none of our oils or hydraulic fluids are going to survive," Calkins said in a telephone interview. "We may have to go back to the 19th century to find appropriate tools -- use cables, pulleys, levers."

And even then, it will be difficult to level a base site and haul away the fill because there's not enough gravity to give a tractor adequate purchase. Instead, Calkins envisions a device that can "scrape and shave" small amounts of soil and take it away bit by bit.

But in the end, "you have to learn how to do it, with real people," McKay said. "This is hard, but we can learn it. And if we do it right on the moon, we will be able to answer my ultimate question: Can Mars be habitable? I think the answer is 'yes.' "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/25/AR2006032500999_pf.html

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: VoidOfsPg]
    #5444423 - 03/26/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

about bloody time

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: VoidOfsPg]
    #5444442 - 03/26/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

That's very good news, and one of the few things Bush has done that I actually agree with. Too bad we're spending all that money on Iraq, else we'd be on Mars before the 2020's.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5444456 - 03/26/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Stupid and Completely Unnecessary.

One of the great fallacies of space travel is that we need to go to the Moon first to get to Mars. Its wasting time and hundreds of billions of dollars. A moon base would not be self-supporting and would need supplies brought from Earth. Mars, on the other hand, is a whole WORLD, with everything we would need to set up, maintain, and grow a self-supporting colony.

All the technology we need to do this is not only available, but has been for NEARLY 20 YEARS. Pick up "The Case For Mars" by Robert Zubrin, Richard Wagner, and Arthur C. Clarke. They lay out, in detail, the plan they set up for NASA back in the early 90's on a mission set called "Mars Direct"

This called for launches from Earth of modules containing habitation and production facilities that would be used on Mars, along with In-Situ propellant manufacturing capabilites that would allow a Mars mission to create all its own propellant for the trip back once on the planet. The book also outlines the steps necessary to start creating a large Martian colony, and the benefits to doing so.

Read This Book. Seriously. I read a few books a week, and this is one of the most intelligently written and thought provoking reads I've had in years. I bought it 5 years ago and it hasnt left my bookshelf yet.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleFerris
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5444475 - 03/26/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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InvisibleVoidOfsPg
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444519 - 03/26/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I personally think space travel is a waste of tax money.

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InvisibleVoidOfsPg
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: VoidOfsPg]
    #5444523 - 03/26/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

We're obviously on Earth (and no other planets) for a reason.

So, leave it be.

However, I must say that it'd be freaking cool to have a base on the moon that we could freely travel to.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444528 - 03/26/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Stupid and Completely Unnecessary.




Are you a scientist? You should at least know that there are many ways of doing one thing. I prefer the more expensive but faster way myself for this matter. I want regular space travel by the time I'm 120




Yes. I may not be a rocket scientist, but I am a scientist. Please, tell me how building a huge UNNECESSARY base on a body which is NOT the one you are aiming for, in order to get to the one you ARE aiming for, is either time or cost effective. Its not.

Thats like starting in Chicago and flying to New York, just so you can fly to Los Angeles.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleFerris
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5444545 - 03/26/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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InvisibleVoidOfsPg
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5444553 - 03/26/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Are you sure it's not like trying to get to New York from Miami?

Miami > Atlanta > New York = Earth > Moon > Mars

Sounds feasible to me.

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InvisibleAliceDee
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: VoidOfsPg]
    #5444587 - 03/26/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

what hes trying to say is its more like building the biggest airport in the US in the smallest city in the US, once we get to the desination, that airport isnt gonna matter in the long run...

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: VoidOfsPg]
    #5444588 - 03/26/06 04:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

the reason there going to the moon first is because japan said they plan to setup a base there.

this would make one worry because someone with a base on the moon has TWO angles to shoot nukes at you with.

plus its closest to earth so the fastest to get turorists to.

also i heard that there is something in the moons soil that is like just perfect for rocket fuel or somehting like that.

in related news some suggest that the center of the moon is made of cheese


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
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Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #5444592 - 03/26/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

and its also like claiming land. who gets what parts of the moon?

what do you guys think about "WORLD WARS"


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #5444597 - 03/26/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

one thing that always gets me thow is that we completly fucked up earth like totally. But for some reason we think we can unfuck another planet...


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #5444604 - 03/26/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The next Donald Trump will be an Inter-galactic Real Estate mogul.

I'm really interested on how things will settle as far as such..inter-galactic real estate goes. Perhaps there will just have to be something akin to the U.S.S. Federation in Star Trek; an international union of some sort.

Or the US could just continue speaking softly with a big stick..




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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5444616 - 03/26/06 04:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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InvisibleVoidOfsPg
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5444621 - 03/26/06 04:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Where's that one dude who said someone sold him some property on the moon?

He made a thread in here a while back. :lol:

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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444627 - 03/26/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

lol i don't think they speak softly anymore, they threw that part of the moto out around 911.

but also there was something signed regarding our freedom and privacy but apparently that doesn't mean shit anymore. thats why i hate lawyers they can wiggle there way out of anything...so whats the point of contacts and such? just to trick people into feeling safe so we can backstab them?


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444639 - 03/26/06 05:05 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

Ferris said:
Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Stupid and Completely Unnecessary.




Are you a scientist? You should at least know that there are many ways of doing one thing. I prefer the more expensive but faster way myself for this matter. I want regular space travel by the time I'm 120




Yes. I may not be a rocket scientist, but I am a scientist. Please, tell me how building a huge UNNECESSARY base on a body which is NOT the one you are aiming for, in order to get to the one you ARE aiming for, is either time or cost effective. Its not.

Thats like starting in Chicago and flying to New York, just so you can fly to Los Angeles.




Don't talk to me like I'm a fucking moron. You're obviously not a scientist AND an economist then. Our economy thrives on waste spending and I'd much rather have that money spent on space travel (or medical research, etc) than an the military. Check out this site and look at NASA then the department of defense (I doubt war spending is even in there as it's not officially part of the budget). We have unutilized space on Mars which will be needed eventually. Staying one step ahead isn't a waste, it's smart

Federal budget




Of course, if this money were just lying there, not utilized, you would be right. However, the mony is coming from somewhere. This President has already shown his complete inability to deal with ANY kind of budget and or monetary policy. I dont want o sound like I'm against space exploration. I think getting us off this rock is extremely important.

I'd just like to see it gone about smartly, rather than wasting money on frivolous and unnecessary detours in search of "Headlines" and "Press".


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: VoidOfsPg]
    #5444652 - 03/26/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Leave it up to these dumbasses to waste billions and billions of tax dollars competing against each other to send inefficient primitive flights to pointless destinations, when here on Earth, humanity can't even get along with one another, can't even take care of the planet which sustains our very existence and we have so many problems I don't even need to begin listing them. This is one of the stupidest and more unrealistic things the Bush Administration has planned.

Let's have world peace on Earth before we go to Mars, mmk?


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OfflinePhoshaman
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5444653 - 03/26/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

silly humans. i lived on mars for eight years.


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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: Phoshaman]
    #5444655 - 03/26/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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InvisibleFerris
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5444660 - 03/26/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444669 - 03/26/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

How about WE QUIT FUCKING UP THE EARTH AND EACH OTHER INSTEAD OF MAKING PIPE DREAMS ABOUT COLONIZING DESOLATE PLANETS. What so we can go fuck up all the other planets too?

I'm just so sick of these idiots and their backward ass non-thinking.


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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: Shroomism]
    #5444701 - 03/26/06 05:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444719 - 03/26/06 05:29 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You should sell Inter-galactic Real Estate on E-bay.

You'd probably be surprised at how successful you'd actually be, considering the things I've seen bought and sold on E-bay.

"Martian Real Estate up for sale! Inter-galactic Foreclosure!"


http://www.centralsource.com/blenderart/albums/userpics/10141/sat2.jpg
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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444738 - 03/26/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Not you. Just that this kind of stuff really pisses me off. Helps show just how backwards our government really is.


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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Shroomism]
    #5444751 - 03/26/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Leave it up to these dumbasses to waste billions and billions of tax dollars competing against each other to send inefficient primitive flights to pointless destinations, when here on Earth, humanity can't even get along with one another, can't even take care of the planet which sustains our very existence and we have so many problems I don't even need to begin listing them. This is one of the stupidest and more unrealistic things the Bush Administration has planned.

Let's have world peace on Earth before we go to Mars, mmk?




news flash: earth will eventually be destroyed when the sun explodes. If we aren't out of the solar system by then, all life that we know for sure exists is toast. I don't think you are seeing the big picture here. Any progress whatsoever in the field of space exploration is good news and a very wise investment not only for the human race, but also for EVERY OTHER SPECIES ON THE PLANET.

space exploration is imo one of the top five most important human endeavors.

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Shroomism]
    #5444757 - 03/26/06 05:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
What so we can go fuck up all the other planets too?




Pretty much so, as we've FUBAR'ed this planet up. :tongue:

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5444765 - 03/26/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I think our top priority should be figuring out how to power our society once the fossil fuels run out. Throw billions into cold fusion research, or some similar venture. Once that's figured out, then worry about space exploration.


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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5444771 - 03/26/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

news flash: The sun is not exploding anytime in the next million years. And WE will be the ones destroying all life on Earth LOOOOOOONG before that happens at the rate we are going.

I fully agree that space exploration is good news. But not at our current state. Let's get our shit together ON EARTH first before we go exploring and fucking up the rest of the universe. Not like we can even get there with our shitty and absolutely primitive space "technology". I hope the shuttle explodes.


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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: Noviseer]
    #5444772 - 03/26/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: Shroomism]
    #5444776 - 03/26/06 05:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444781 - 03/26/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know man.. it's kind of a race isn't it? I wasn't talking about either violence or pollution.. I was just referring to the stupidity of humanity in general. Which both those categories fall under.

Violence or pollution.. it's all the same shit, a direct result of illlogical thinking.


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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: Shroomism]
    #5444791 - 03/26/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444795 - 03/26/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What's logical about it?
Perhaps we have different definitions of "logic" and "intelligence"


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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: Shroomism]
    #5444799 - 03/26/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444801 - 03/26/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

That's the opposite of logic and intelligence in my book.

By fucking other people over, you are only fucking over yourself in the grand scheme of things.


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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Shroomism]
    #5444812 - 03/26/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
news flash: The sun is not exploding anytime in the next million years. And WE will be the ones destroying all life on Earth LOOOOOOONG before that happens at the rate we are going.

I fully agree that space exploration is good news. But not at our current state. Let's get our shit together ON EARTH first before we go exploring and fucking up the rest of the universe. Not like we can even get there with our shitty and absolutely primitive space "technology". I hope the shuttle explodes.




we may need every bit of that million years to get where we need to go.

my point is that nothing lasts forever, including planets. But there is a slim possibility that life on this planet can outlive the planet itself. the conquest of space is the only way this could happen.

sure, we have social problems, but only time will solve those. Doesn't mean we can't get some work done in the meantime. Evolving into more compassionate, enlightened beings is a process that will last the entire span of the existence of our race. Making headway in space exploration will considerably increase the length of that span.

Besides, enlightenment has generally been concurrent with the development of new technology (eg: the printing press and the internet). Space applications have spawned all kinds of new technology.

also, one more point before I go:

The first car I owned was treated like crap beause I didn't know how to take care of it. I faced every mechanical problem you could name with that car. Recently I bought a shiny new car and I treat it like gold because I've learned from my past mistakes and I want this car to be way better than the first one. think about that.

Edited by DoctorJ (03/26/06 06:11 PM)

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5444826 - 03/26/06 06:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444830 - 03/26/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I seriously doubt that the irradication of religion will happen no matter how advanced we become, nor do I feel that religion should be irradicated.

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444834 - 03/26/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
Quote:

Noviseer said:
I think our top priority should be figuring out how to power our society once the fossil fuels run out. Throw billions into cold fusion research, or some similar venture. Once that's figured out, then worry about space exploration.




Ya, cold fusion. All molecules contain massive amounts of energy, so once we get that, we're set. But which do you seriously think will be figured out first? You spread your research hoping at least one turns out.




http://www.mufor.org/nmachine.html

It's already been figured out. Nobody wants to accept it because it defies the laws of physics, but it's a very interesting concept.

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5444838 - 03/26/06 06:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Damn J why you gotta be all positive and shit :grin: Raining on my pissed off parade.

Although the "conquest" of space is exactly what I have a problem with. We should be exploring and observing... only at our current state.. I have a feeling we would be trying to do more conquering and raping. Also, the owning of property has to go out the window. No one owns Earth. We make these imaginary lines, and say I own this land! But you don't own that shit, it owns you. If it wasn't there.. you wouldn't exist. This whole "conquer nature" mentality is the exact problem. We'd probably get to Mars and be like.. Property of the US government! And then make a missile silo or some stupid shit like that.

Point being.. our problems aren't going to disappear once we explore space more. They will follow. I think space exploration is uber important for the continued evolution of any sentient civilization, but not when they are a bunch of flaming, power-hungry idiots with their head up their ass. And I sincerely question their intentions on going to Mars. What's the point? So we can build a base to escape to when we completely fuck the Earth up? Wouldn't last long.

Ferris.. no I don't think human civilization was meant to be in numbers of 6 billion+ on such a small planet.


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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars *DELETED* [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5444839 - 03/26/06 06:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Ferris]
    #5444847 - 03/26/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Yes.. a religion celebrating humanity and diversity. The one religion everyone can relate to, and interpret and practice in their own way.


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Re: U.S. Planning Base on Moon To Prepare for Trip to Mars [Re: Shroomism]
    #5444881 - 03/26/06 06:38 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:

Although the "conquest" of space is exactly what I have a problem with.




think of it this way: most of space is dead, and we are conquering it with life. There is no 'nature' in space. We would be bringing it there, expanding the natural world, and offering new avenues of evolution for existing life. Can you imagine being born and living most of your life in a low-G environment? Imagine the sociological effects of an environment where there was no solid definition of the words 'up' and 'down'. Enlightenment is in the heavens, my friend.

Quote:

Point being.. our problems aren't going to disappear once we explore space more. They will follow.




I think our problems will follow us wherever we go. The point is:

"If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them. "

-Isaac Asimov

Quote:

I think space exploration is uber important for the continued evolution of any sentient civilization, but not when they are a bunch of flaming, power-hungry idiots with their head up their ass. And I sincerely question their intentions on going to Mars. What's the point? So we can build a base to escape to when we completely fuck the Earth up? Wouldn't last long.





who cares about their intentions? By the time the job is done, they will be dead.

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