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OfflineWordlessNature
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Manure Photo Op.
    #5441401 - 03/25/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Good Afternoon! I have been conducting a small photographic survey of the manure-dwelling mushrooms near my girlfriend's house. Here are some of the pictures I have collected thus far. The majority of the finds appear to be P. Coprophila, with the possible exception of the last specimen. All of them yielded a purple-brown spore print (taken meticulously from each). I imagine that as time passes, even more species will become visible.













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Offlinexmush
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Re: Manure Photo Op. [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5441421 - 03/25/06 03:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

nice pics, thanks

xmush


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Re: Manure Photo Op. [Re: xmush]
    #5441581 - 03/25/06 05:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I am pretty sure the reddish ones are coprophila... I really do wonder what the light yellow ones are though. I have been searching for a while...


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Invisiblesui
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Re: Manure Photo Op. [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5441607 - 03/25/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Psilocybe_coprophila.html
this sounds right like you said. Too bad its not active. Great pics though.


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"There is never a wrong note, bend it."
Jimi Hendrix



Edited by sui (03/25/06 05:18 PM)


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Invisiblesui
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Re: Manure Photo Op. [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5441610 - 03/25/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

WordlessNature said:
I am pretty sure the reddish ones are coprophila... I really do wonder what the light yellow ones are though. I have been searching for a while...




id bet the white ones are these
http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Stropharia_semiglobata.html


--------------------

"There is never a wrong note, bend it."
Jimi Hendrix



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Re: Manure Photo Op. [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5441624 - 03/25/06 05:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

WordlessNature said:
I am pretty sure the reddish ones are coprophila... I really do wonder what the light yellow ones are though. I have been searching for a while...





Theres a special mycological word that means mushrooms that grow in manure but i cant remember it sorry i dont have my books with me, im sure it would help you in youre search.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Manure Photo Op. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5441761 - 03/25/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The word is coprophilous

And the species brown reddish ones are P. coprophila. The yellowish one are either a Panaeolus or a Stropharia.

Mopst probably the latter.

mj


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Re: Manure Photo Op. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #5441800 - 03/25/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Hmmm. Thanks. I had ruled out S. semiglobata for the yellow ones because they lack a ring and do not resemble the semiglobata I have encountered previously. Could be another Stropharia species I suppose... I have read conflicting reports on whether P. coprophila is active or not. I am inclined to believe they are not...


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InvisibleshroominDole
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Re: Manure Photo Op. [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5442578 - 03/25/06 10:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

WordlessNature said:
All of them yielded a purple-brown spore print (taken meticulously from each).








hey Word......those yellow mushroom mushs might be Agrocybe but impossible to say now.......is there any way you can get one of your famous close-ups(built in image stabilisation?) from the bottom of the mushroom(yellow)and one of the spore print?.....also just wanted to point out that on the link provided to Mycoweb for Stropharia semiglobata that that is misinformation citing Ps. merdaria as not having ring on the stem delineating it from Stropharia semiglobata.....Ps. merdaria has a veil that is well developed, forming a more or less permanent submembranous annulus some deteriorating to annular fibrillate zone....






















--------------------
Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !)
' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them '
Alexander H. Smith
Mycologia vol.69 1977


Edited by shroominDole (03/26/06 12:11 PM)


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Re: Manure Photo Op. [Re: shroominDole]
    #5444245 - 03/26/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Hmmm... I'll check out Agrocybes to see if I can find anything that checks out. I'll try to get some close up shots of a mature specimen. Provided there are still some fruiting. It is surprising how quickly they cycle out... I don't think my camera has image stabilization, but it takes good shots...


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Offlineihaveacow
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Re: Manure Photo Op. [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5444495 - 03/26/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i had some cubensis that looked like those light ones, so there wasnt a veil?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/bennettbike/984641996-thumb_IM000440.jpg
see the one to the far right...

and yeah thats before i used scissors, okay, no flamming on that aight!


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im me on aim... bennettbike

i dont smoke, drink, or abuse drugs, but because i trip spiritually twice a year i got a felony!


Edited by ihaveacow (03/26/06 04:12 PM)


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OfflineWordlessNature
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More [Re: ihaveacow]
    #5445594 - 03/26/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Here are today's manure finds. These mushrooms were all found near my house, which is at approximately 2000 feet. Therefore, the climate is a bit different in comparison to my girlfriend's house, which is in the valley... Some interesting specimens this time, as you can see.

S. Semiglobata I think;




P. Merdaria is likely;


I am not sure what these are. Similar to coprophila in some ways but unlike any I have ever seen...;


Almost certainly coprophila;


This looks like one hell of a panaeolus, but I have no idea...;


BTW: I haven't been able to check on the light-colored mushrooms from the other day yet... I am hoping that I can do so tomorrow morning. They should be mature by now, so any unanswered questions should be put to rest. Heh, as long as they aren't withered or melted.


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Edited by WordlessNature (03/26/06 11:30 PM)


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Re: More [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5445761 - 03/27/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

And a final token Pan. sphinctrinus (or close to it...);


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InvisibleshroominDole
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Re: More [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5446380 - 03/27/06 06:20 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

hey word.....your first two (yellows) are Bolbitius vitellinus......the last one "Hell of a" is Panaeolus(Anellaria) semiovatus(seperatus) listed in most guides as "active" but is actually probably not.....the last one is definately Panaeolus papillionaceus-campanulatus-sphinctrinus complex.....activity variing from cow pat to cow pat.....and those coprophilas can be extremely variable with the color changes from hygrophany(fading) even at very young ages....and on the Merdaria can see it has fairly well developed at least partially membranous veil/ annular zone.....there are several hard to seperate somewhat identical coprophilus shrooms of which that one could be.....common in your area with a fairly well developed annular zone(which can vary from slight to disapearing from shroom to shroom as can any annulate shroom) and a few of these are..... which these might fall under......other than Psilocybe(Stropharia)merdaria are.....Stropharia semiglobata var. stercocaria(this one a strong possibility and without so much of the slime if your finding semiglobata).....and Stropharia siccipes.....Stropharia(Psilocybe)umbonatescens.....and also Stropharia coronilla with a well developed annular with some reports as being poisonous and can be EXTREMELY variable from short somewhat squat to very small thin like what your finding and all these can be difficult to seperate.....isnt it interesting how each new location can present a whole new cast fungaloid characters.....and the Agrocybe I was thinking as a possibility on the previous post was A. pediades.....but as John said more than likely a Stropharia.....


--------------------
Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !)
' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them '
Alexander H. Smith
Mycologia vol.69 1977


Edited by shroominDole (03/27/06 08:32 PM)


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Re: More [Re: shroominDole]
    #5447543 - 03/27/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Ahhh. Yellow bolbitius. I'm not sure why I was thinking Stropharia... One note on the unidentified hygrophanous mushrooms; on all of the ones I inspected, the stems were reddish and...hmmm, I'm not sure how to articulate this but they were rough and not very round. In fact, the stems seemed somewhat flat, but not from compression. They seemed to be naturally deformed. (Gah. I need a picture...)


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Update: Cracked Pans from previous post. [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5447602 - 03/27/06 01:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Through some observance I have deduced that the mature caps below are adult specimens of the young caps in the next picture.








I have since observed younger specimens turn once again into the cracked-looking older caps relatively quickly, with no variation in development despite more stable weather. I have found only one mushroom that is macroscopically similar; Copelandia Bispora. I understand that it would quite anomalous, for this mushroom has as far as I know never been reported in North America...


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Update: Cracked Pans from previous post. [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5449754 - 03/28/06 12:54 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

also, they would bruise very blue.
No, those are Pan sphinctrinus,
you were right about the mature cap being the same as the small ones tho.


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Re: Update: Cracked Pans from previous post. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5450824 - 03/28/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

hey word.....word.....I had id'd the hygrophanous ones back there as Ps. coprophila though it should be noted that there's another Ps. coprophila type shroom that occurs in Calif. called Ps. argentina also coprophilus and not active.....but easy too confuse some immature yellow, slimy shroom occuring on dung as Stropharia after regularly encountering semiglobata....and the observation of the texture of the stipe of coprophila....it can be minutely very squamulose(scaly) when young and longitudinally striated in combination with being dry(as opposed to the cap) can give a rough texture....and compression or flattening of the stipe is a variable constantly encountered with many mushrooms though it might not be usual for that mushroom or mentioned in the description.....though somewhat constant in many Leptonias and Clitocybe you,ll encounter....and can be helpful to identify those mushrooms macroscopically when in the description....but this awareness you seem to have to detail is only going to help you in the field as its sometimes those minor details that can be the difference when identifying these mushrooms.....between life and death....and youll find many of your observations arent mentioned in identifications though maybe they should be or may be particular to your local occurence or local variety of that mushroom and plants also....and on your new mushroom above as Mitch mentioned....youd know very quikly if Copelandia from bluing.... but they do pop up every once in a while especially during extended tropical weather as you know California can turn into Florida for short durations of time....weve had couple popular explosions in large lawns in parks etc. in past and its amazing how fast the word can travel but who knows how many of these could be attributed to other Panaeolus....and as Mitch mentioned those are definately both the same shroom but those should be classic Panaeolus retirugis("active" though some will argue)....and that texturing on the cap (though not always apparent) is one of the common characteristics of this species.... and on the younger ones you can already (though vague) see the beginning of the longitudinal(up and down) "wrinkling" beginning and then of course the typical heavily inrolled appendiculate cap margin....Retirugis is extremely close to Papilionaceus-Shinctrinus-Campanulatus complex and has many times been placed there and wanted to mention though you didnt mention what habitat the ones next to those in the pic came from....but should be very close to Psathyrella....and on the "Hell of a Panaeolus" the more I look at it........thats an incredible pic for that mushroom....great balance and color contrast....ya that lime green does something to you on the hikes(or is it the mushrooms?)....only thing its missin for that mushroom is the annular blackened by spores which Im sure it was by the next day....SHOES OUT ON THE PORCH!!!


--------------------
Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !)
' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them '
Alexander H. Smith
Mycologia vol.69 1977


Edited by shroominDole (03/28/06 08:27 PM)


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Thanks [Re: shroominDole]
    #5451922 - 03/28/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Ahhh. I did some homework just now on P. Retirugis. Seems to be exactly what I found. I collected the last living cap today and I am hoping that more spring up after this shower, though for some reason my intuition tells me they are done... Unfortunate, since they do seem to be active, no? Hmmm... I was just reading through PF's basic cultivation Tek. Maybe I will try to get a viable print out of that last cap and give it a go...


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Edited by WordlessNature (03/28/06 05:00 PM)


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Thanks [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5454770 - 03/29/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"P. Retirugis" does not appear in any pics you posted.
just so you know.

it isnt active anyway.

you have panaeolus sphinctrinus.

thats IS what you have.


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Really... [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5455374 - 03/29/06 02:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

According to the picture referencing I have done, the scale-capped mushrooms I have photographed appear to be P. retirugis. I am by no means SURE of that. Nevertheless, I find your assertion that they are (without a doubt) sphinctrinus to be presumptuous at the very least, considering a notable lack of workable evidence that we are given to work with in this setting. In all honestly, I find your words arrogant and slightly antagonistic.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Really... [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5456245 - 03/29/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Thats your perrogative.

Alot of inexperienced hunters would aggree with you too. you should get together with them and formulate a
dissertation.

antangonism is purely in the mind of the antagonized, in this case.

If it eases your mind that I complement you for something, then I will say this.
Your photography skills are top-notch. Better than 90% of the pics that come on here. And therefore your specimines are quite a simple task to ID.



Edited by Mitchnast (03/29/06 06:39 PM)


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Hmm. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5457540 - 03/29/06 10:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well, I must say I am a little bemused. Perhaps my youth has gotten the best of me. In truth, as I was hiking after my last post I felt I had been a bit rash. In all likelihood I was probably just holding onto the hope of having found a psychoactive mushroom. Either way, it was in fact my error in raising issue, not yours in asserting your views. It is to my disgust that I observe people becoming defensive or emotional when it comes to addressing a difference of opinion, and here I find myself engaging in the same behavior! Please accept my apology~


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Hmm. [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5464214 - 03/31/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

none needed. :smile:


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InvisibleshroominDole
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Re: Really... [Re: Mitchnast]
    #5482424 - 04/05/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Had to edit this today to reload pics as they had been mistakenly deleted from this identification.......

word link
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5472081/an/0/page/1



Quote:

Mitchnast said: your specimines are quite a simple task to ID.





Hey Mitch.....appreciate your reply......this is how we learn is by disscussing the inevidible disagreements on the different points and details of trying to I.D. something from usully blurry pictures over the internet _"..........considering a notable lack of workable evidence that we are given to work with in this setting............"_ especially within this complex but I'm sure I aint tellin you nuthin you haven't already known.....probably a lot longer than I.....I think you as I did in this case as soon as you saw the picture had that immediate ON SIGHT recognition which after a certain point we all do......like so many people after encountering Chanterelles or Morels after a few times, how many need to go spore it first .....usually its like bam......"Thats a Chanty!"........on sight........ I mean I know I sure tend (not sayin you do) to glance over mushrooms a bit quik sometimes cause instantly recognize that group....and Im sure (not sayin you are)I'm probably wrong half ? the time.....(NOTE with that said:) NO ONE SHOULD EVER EAT A MUSHROOM BECAUSE SOMEONE IDENTIFIED IT FOR THEM FROM A PICTURE OR OVER A WEBSITE!........you must KNOW for YOURSELF FIRST!!!


Quote:

Mitchnast said: No, those are Pan sphinctrinus





Wish I could give a more specific reply to your two identification replies.....but all the things you had stated said nothing to the WHY of the I.D. of the mushrooms (all guilty) other than no blueing reaction ruling out Copelandia (just curious on what criteria DID you use to delineate from Papilionaceus, Campanulatus, and Retirugis?) ......nor did you reply to some of the observations made on this thread as possibilities for another species/ variety such as the what I considered extremely insightful ( as you will see) (inexperienced?) observations in the field.....and on a continuing basis......I mean he had these illicit little fungal fugitives (fungitives?)(Pans)under observation for days ! .........(well probably actually only a couple hours in total)......but I mean they werent gettin away with nuthin !.....P. I. Word.....anything for a positive I.D. of the suspected.......how many years would all our ongoing surveilances of our local favorable habitats add up to?..........can pay off tho........people been finded morels for weeks now......(tho we can find them every month of the year here).............Through this he was able to observe changes over maybe a liittle more extended range of growth and environmental factors.......


Didnt realize at time of I.D. but this mushroom was already run through an earlier post.....this is from that original thread "Old Man Manure".......
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5426767/an/0/page/2

(put the pertinant in CAPS)....
Quote:

WordlessNature said:
"....... They weren't shriveled panaeolus; THE ENTIRE PATCH HELD THAT APPEARANCE EVEN THE THE YOUNGER CAPS. Moreover, THE CAPS ARE SCALED, NOT AT ALL SHRIVELED, and the stems are healthy. Definitely not a scaly coprinus. The stems are not white, nor are they hollow. The inside of the stem is rather woody. In fact, the color is a reddish brown, further resembling wood. Here are a couple more shots of others in the group. The young caps (group of 3 in first pic)...... BRUISE PURPLE..... Rather pretty."




just with these observations alone gotta at least consider at least for a microsecond there might at least a lotteries chance Retirugis



Quote:

Mitchnast said: "Alot of (likeminded (edited out) and inexperienced hunters would aggree with you too. you should get together with them and formulate a
dissertation..................."



so I did.............



this was a follow up post to "Old Man Manure" thread attached to the end this thread in another attempt at I.D. for the Old Man.........
Quote:

WordlessNature said:"I have since observed YOUNGER SPECIMENS TURN ONCE AGAIN INTO THE CRACKED LOOKING OLDER - CAPS RELATIVELY QUIKLY WITH NO VARIATION IN DEVELOPMENT DESPITE MORE STABLE WEATHER............. "






Quote:

shroominDole said:
....and that texturing on the cap (though not always apparent) is one of the common characteristics of this species..... and on the younger ones you can already (though vague) see the beginning of the longitudinal(up and down) "wrinkling" beginning and then of course the typical......







Panaeolus sphinctrinus SaccardoSyllogeFungorum V. 1120 1887


Pileo = Cap / Levi = Smooth .............Stipite = Stem / Fuligeneo Griseo = Smoky Gray Color





Panaeolus retirugis SaccardoSyllogeFungorum V. 1120 1887


Pileo = Cap / Costis = Ribbed / Elevatis = Raised / Reticulato = Marked by lines etc......................Stipite = Stem / Carneo = Flesh colored / Purpurascente = becoming/ bruising PURPLE




Words stem:

STIPITE PURPURASCENTE







PANAEOLUS in the Pacific Northwest........(The Pertinant are in <CAPS>)


Pacific Northwest Key Council

Gary Menser, Oregon Mycological Society

Pacific Northwest Key Council


KEY TO SPECIES


8a. Cap WITH raised RETICULATIONS


...............................................................................P. retirugis
CAP 10-30 mm, globose, conic or campanulate, dark smoky becoming gray brown as it ages, darker when moist, shiny when dry, surface with <RAISED RIBS> or <WRINKLES> , margin incurved when young, appressed to the stem, fragments from the ringlike veil may be attached, appendiculate; flesh thin and fragile. GILLS pallid then becoming mottled and darkening as they age, adnate or adnexed, close, edge white and downy. STEM 40-60 mm x 2-4 mm, straight and equal, hollow, stiff and fragile, <WHITISH BECOMING PURPLISH> as it ages, darker near base, polished and finely powdered, no veil remnants, apex striate, base darker, may be slightly enlarged. Habit and habitat solitary to gregarious, often in large quantities in cow pastures, spring to fall. Remarks see discussion under P. papilionaceus sensu stricto below.

CAP: <RAISED RIBS> or <WRINKLES>..................STEM: <WHITISH BECOMING PURPLISH>



8b. Cap NOT RETICULATE


................................................................................P. sphinctrinus
CAP 10-30 mm, obtuse then broadly campanulate, never expanding to plane, hygrophanous, dark gray-brown or dark olive-gray or olive-black or lead gray or smoky gray, drying pallid buff, <SMOOTH> shiny when dry, margin appressed to the stem and incurved, appendiculate. GILLS pallid becoming mottled then darkening as they age, adnate, crowded, edges white. STEM 25-75 mm x 2-4 mm, straight and equal, hollow and fragile, <WHITISH TO DARK SMOKY GRAY> lighter near the top, darkening from the bottom as it ages, smooth, polished and covered with a fine white powder, apex substriate, base slightly enlarged and covered with white mycelium. HABITAT manured meadows, dung. Remarks see discussion under P. papilionaceus sensu stricto above.

CAP: <SMOOTH>......................................STEM <WHITISH TO DARK SMOKY GRAY>




Quote:

Mitchnast said: "P. Retirugis" does not appear in any pics you posted.
just so you know...............you have panaeolus sphinctrinus.
thats IS what you have."







Quote:

WordlessNature said: "According to the picture referencing I have done, the scale-capped mushrooms I have photographed appear to be P. retirugis. I am by no means SURE of that. Nevertheless, I.........."





Words shroom:


LOOK FAMILIAR?........this is a picture of an identified P. retirugis:





Words Old Man


LOOK FAMILIAR?........this another picture of an identified P. retirugis:





Quote:

shroominDole said: "..........but those should be classic Panaeolus retirugis("active" though some will argue)....and that texturing....."








Quote:

Mitchnast said: "just so you know. IT ISN'T ACTIVE ANYWAY."






Here is the reference for the chemical isolation of Psilocybin in Panaeolus retirugis
Fiussello, N. & Ceruti-Scarti, J. 1971/72.
Presenza di psilocibina edi 5-idrossi-indolderivati in Panaeolus retirugis. Atti Acc. Sci. Torino 106, 725-735.



http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=565



GAST?N GUZM?N, JOHN W. ALLEN & JOCHEN GARTZ
A WORLDWIDE GEOGRAPHICAL DISTRIBUTION OF THE
NEUROTROPIC FUNGI, AN ANALYSIS AND DISCUSSION
Ann. Mus. civ. Rovereto
Sez.: Arch., St., Sc. nat.
Vol. 14 (1998) 189-280 2000

In this paper, the world distribution of 216 known species of neurotropic fungi is discussed.

Basidiomycotina

Agaricales

Coprinaceae

44. PANAEOLUS RETIRUGIS




mushroomjohn.com says:

Revised May 1, 2002
Copyright 1998-2001 by John W. Allen

A List of the Known PSILOCYBIN mushrooms

BASIDIOMYCOTINA
Agaricales

Panaeolus Species

34. PANAEOLUS RETIRUGIS (Fr.) Qu?l.




the website EROWID says:

A List of the (186) Known Psilocybian Mushrooms
by John W. Allen
html by Erowid, 12/03/01
Last Modified - Thu, Mar 17, 2005

Phylum: BASIDIOMYCOTINA
Class: Hymenomycetes
Order: Agaricales

Family: Coprinaceae

Genus: Panaeolus

#30. PANAEOLUS RETIRUGIS

Have More................?



and oh ya......stumbled upon this on a web search....recognize this mushroom?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1879457

and in the mind of the intent antagonists (all are guilty).........


Edited by shroominDole (04/18/06 08:25 PM)


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