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micololo2
Stranger

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient
#5441078 - 03/25/06 01:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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As horse manure contain nitrogen.
Does someone really know if we can replace bran cereal supplement as nitrogen nutrients by horse manure for long time growing mushroom strain woodlover as maitake, shiitake, beech mushroom etc. on sawdust wood chips final substrat?
Thanks
Edited by micololo2 (03/25/06 03:12 PM)
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 12 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: micololo2]
#5542814 - 04/22/06 12:12 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey micololo2, I was curious about this question also. This is Hypsizygus tessulatus on stable bedding with about 1% gypsum added. It was soaked in water and then drained and let sit outside for two days on pavement. It rained while it was sitting outside so I squeezed the excess water out before pressure cooking for an hour.

It looks like it will work for Beech mushroom. If you do this on a bigger scale you will have to play with the recipe, I think.
-falcon
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micololo2
Stranger

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: falcon]
#5544454 - 04/22/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
falcon said: Hey micololo2, I was curious about this question also. This is Hypsizygus tessulatus on stable bedding with about 1% gypsum added. It was soaked in water and then drained and let sit outside for two days on pavement. It rained while it was sitting outside so I squeezed the excess water out before pressure cooking for an hour.

It looks like it will work for Beech mushroom. If you do this on a bigger scale you will have to play with the recipe, I think.
-falcon
Hi big bird Interesting what your trying! On my side, has I cannot find answer to that question, I'll make some experience with fast and slow premier decomposer mushrooms. Later+
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FreeSporePrints

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 1,139
Loc: Rome, Italy
Last seen: 1 month, 27 days
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: micololo2]
#5546344 - 04/23/06 02:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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hi micololo, for me horse manure is very poor of nutrients, perhaps ones of the causes because in nature the mushrooms grow on the manure is that:
1-spores come eaten by the animals why they're on grass, hay, straw etc.. 2-during the digestion they're wonderfull mixed through the very little parts of straw/hay so the mycelium colonize faster 3-during the fermentation of the manure caused by aerobic/anaerobic the temperature is high and provide to incubate the mycelium
we can say that the spores are "constricted" in that environment..but lucky, we can incubate them in an artificial environment..so -for me- you can replace bran cereal supplements in other ways, directly adding for example bran or something else contains nitrogen possibly in powder-like form (or if you want to use manure, using chicken/rabbit manure, drying it and reduce to powder-like)
In other words copy the environment in the natural habitat, adding more "powerfull" supplements (in substance and form) that in nature they can't exist(i believe is impossible to find in nature chicken/rabbit manure in powder or bran where grows mushroom)
I hope this can help you.
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micololo2
Stranger

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: FreeSporePrints]
#5546729 - 04/23/06 06:39 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well thanks a lot, that was the kind of answer I was looking for.
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FreeSporePrints

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 1,139
Loc: Rome, Italy
Last seen: 1 month, 27 days
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: micololo2]
#5547009 - 04/23/06 10:19 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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well!
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 12 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: falcon]
#6208944 - 10/24/06 11:18 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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This jar sat around most of the summer colonized. In the middle of September it went into a plastic bag in the basement. The inside of the bag was sprayed with water 4 or 5 times a week.
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FreeSporePrints

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 1,139
Loc: Rome, Italy
Last seen: 1 month, 27 days
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: falcon]
#6209553 - 10/25/06 04:32 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is it H.tessulatus?
which trasfers have you done form 2 jars? thank you.
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zeegos
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Registered: 04/03/06
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: FreeSporePrints]
#6209563 - 10/25/06 04:49 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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how do you inoculate sawdust jars like that? LC or spawn?
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phalcon005

Registered: 12/21/05
Posts: 217
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: zeegos]
#6209914 - 10/25/06 08:51 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Micoloco, on your first question I've thought the same but with something cheap like Urea. The button mushroom growers in the U.S. seem to just add Urea to their composting material for the nitrogen component. A 50lb bag of Urea is surely cheaper that bran, and since it is more concentrated you shouldn't have to use as much.
Has anyone ever tried supplementing sawdust blocks with Urea? Last time I was on this kick I was checking on an appendix in GGMM that lists hundreds of potential supplements and their chemical make up. I think I was discouraged because Stamets lists the benefits of supplements based on their protein and nitrogen content(12.5% protein 2.5% nitrogen is ideal I believe, I'll have to double check). I wonder if he lists horse poo in there as well? I'll have to check when I get home, that might give a crude breakdown for horse poo.
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FreeSporePrints

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 1,139
Loc: Rome, Italy
Last seen: 1 month, 27 days
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: phalcon005]
#6210473 - 10/25/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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For that i know urea is used from Agaricus bisporus growers into the manure to accelerate the fermentation and not to add nitrogen.( (horse manure can reach also 70°C into the kernel of the bulk..is impossible to believe but a day i've inserted my arm into the manure bulk..and my life changed..my arm too :P )
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micololo2
Stranger

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: FreeSporePrints]
#6211126 - 10/25/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Somewhere on this thread I said that I wanted to experiment with horse manure. I did with white oyster, and it worked well with straw. I didn't insert a lot and I don't know if it had a consequence.
I've tried with Puerto Rican and Golden Teacher magic mush. I've mixed sraw with fresh horse manure and strerilize them at 15 PSI, 1.5 hours. It gave me huge mushrooms while they suppose to be small (from what I saw on photos). Some was big as my shiitake! I didn't have any contam. 4 little blocks gave me anough mush to fill 2 bags of bread!! I trew them away in my compost pile.
I didn't try on sawdust, poeple here say that it wont work well.
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falcon


Registered: 04/01/02
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Last seen: 12 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: Newbie question about nitrogen nutrient [Re: FreeSporePrints]
#6211690 - 10/25/06 06:38 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is it H.tessulatus? Yes.
which trasfers have you done form 2 jars?
I haven't done any transfers from the 2 jars, there were 4 jars done this way, I'm not sure where I put the other 3. 
how do you inoculate sawdust jars like that? LC or spawn?
Zeegos, I used agar wedges this time, a little grain spawn takes off faster. LC would probably work even better.  There is a hole poked in the middle of the fine chips, LC would give you more surface area for your culture to start from.
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