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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Tampering With A Classic
#5440280 - 03/25/06 03:29 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Of course, it should generally be accepted that pf style cakes simply won't produce anywhere near the amount, size, and quality of mushrooms from bulk substrates. Brf is said to not provide as many nutrients, and the majority of the substrate for these cakes are vermiculite, which doesn't contain nutrients for the mushrooms.
Say one is just starting with growing again, and wants to work with cakes in order to familiarize oneself with the process before jumping headfirst into casings. In order to maximize yields from these brf/verm cakes, could one fuck around with the ratio of brf to verm in order to provide more nutrients? Half and half, or reversing the proportion altogether?
My friend is going to start some lc, use a bit of vegetable oil in the substrate mix for the cakes in order to provide some extra nutrients, and will dunk and roll in order to provide enough moisture and a sort of casing for fruiting, but would adding more brf and less verm be beneficial? He will experiment with this anyways, simply to find out for himself if it would be, but any advice/insight would be appreciated on this matter. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Cray
I'm not fat i'mbig bones


Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 951
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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i've done the PF tek plenty of time and got really nice potent mushys. As for messing with the ratio, why? Why change it? Just use what has been tested, and used and gotton good results. Don't go fuckin with the ratio and shit, it'll save you a shit load of time, money, and aggravation. Good luck.
-Cray
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: Tampering With A Classic [Re: Cray]
#5440364 - 03/25/06 06:19 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cray said: Why change it? Just use what has been tested, and used and gotton good results.
To possibly get great results? 
Seriously though, I fully acknowledge that the ratio has been well formulated and well tested. Part of the learning experience for my friend, I guess, will be in continuing to test things and to experiment in order to demonstrate to himself why things are set the way they are. 
I was just curious as to whether or not anyone else has experimented with tampering with the classic. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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pip182
Stranger

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 103
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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I know adding poo to a PF style cake produces great results.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5408096#Post5408096 that used to be a good poo cake tek, but now its deleted. wtf.
Anyway it basically said to add poo to your cake, I think they also used WBS instead of BRF.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5368184#Post5368184 There is another post about it.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5389328#Post5389328 And another... i'm sure there are more.
I for one am going to be trying some poo cakes here in a couple days after the rest of my wbs cakes get 100% and cased.
I also have an idea for my cakes coming up which may be of interest to you.
I am probobly going to do a mix of 30% verm, 30% poo, 30% wbs, and 10% brf. I may even add some P. Viridis powder in the mix since i have it on hand and it might produce interesting results (still unclear though). I also hear that adding some coco coir to your mix will speed up colonization tremendously.
I have no idea if my ratio will work, though I don't see why not. I have had great success with straight WBS cakes, though I have not fruited off of them, I hear it is possible but it is better to case them, so far is it working great, got my first flush pinning up about 3 days ago.
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Tampering With A Classic [Re: pip182]
#5440419 - 03/25/06 07:50 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The thing I've noticed with BRF is that the nutes are more readily available because they're opened grains as opposed to whole grains so this does compensate somewhat for their poor nutrient value. Ratio is very important not something you want to fuck with what you can fuck with is your water source making that rich is nutes will go along way. What you will want to do is make a poo tea bag and boil this and then use that water next best thing to LNS right agar? Boil it so you have a coffee looking brew. GL and watchout potency will increase also.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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First off, do you have a PC?
Because, if you do, you can SUPER CHARGE CAKES, with wbs/grains.
For that matter, you can SUPER CHARGE CAKES, without a PC, by adding h/poo & coir.
With a PC add coir, h/poo & wbs/grains.
Without a PC add h/poo & coir to the regular recipe. Either way. More nutrients & moisture retention capacity, gives you better B/E.
You can also do away with the Verm barrier & use tyvek, with lids.
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fungiamongi2
pharmer



Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 1,042
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Tampering With A Classic [Re: agar]
#5440440 - 03/25/06 08:08 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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you know how rice expands when you cook it.... it does the same in the jars. ive found that if you use too much rice, it expands too much and becomes super dense
-------------------- gonna bring her a kiss, make those blues run
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: Tampering With A Classic [Re: agar]
#5440783 - 03/25/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
agar said: First off, do you have a PC?
I don't, but my friend certainly does! 
Quote:
Because, if you do, you can SUPER CHARGE CAKES, with wbs/grains.
With a PC add coir, h/poo & wbs/grains.
My friend just went on a multi-faceted expedition to take care of a variety of things, and among the stops was Wal*Mart, of course... his girlfriend picked up a bag of wbs. She bought a ten pound bag of Pennington "Rainbow Valley" Finch Food. The bag states "Mix of Millets, Canary Grass Seed, Sunflower Chips and Thistle Seed, a favorite food of finches". Will this work? 
Any specific ratio in mind? Cut back on the vermiculite to make room for the wbs, or keep the same amount of vermiculite to ensure proper moisture retention, and perhaps split the brf and wbs 50/50? Or, as you mentioned, eliminate the dry verm layer and simply add some wbs to the same ratio?
Quote:
More nutrients & moisture retention capacity, gives you better B/E.
I just recently read and saved your thread concerning B/E and the difference between that of brf cakes and that of bulk substrates, so I'm definitely all about the B/E over here. 
Thanks for the help. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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I would go 1 part wbs 1 part coir 2 parts verm & the normal amount of BRF. H/poo would be better than coir, if you have some.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: Tampering With A Classic [Re: agar]
#5440822 - 03/25/06 12:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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No h/poo yet, he's holding off on that until he's familiarized with the process and is beginning casings. He has to return to Petco sometime soon to get a master testing kit for his oscars, so he'll pick up some coir then. Same amount of water for these cakes, I presume? Dunk and roll as well?
He picked up some micropore tape today as well, in your personal opinion, will this work more effectively for holes in lids as compared to polyfill? My friend just started three jars of lc today, and, while simple enough, messing around with the polyfill was, well, sort of a mess.. 
Whereas the micropore tape is in a regular tape dispenser.. simple! 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Micropore over polyfil anyday! The only place I would ever use polyfil would be in a FC for air exchange.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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shroomsynergy
Fungi Freak


Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Andromeda
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Tampering With A Classic [Re: hyphae]
#5440904 - 03/25/06 12:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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whats the point of using the jar lids metal side down????????? i just dont get what the hell that does????
....and i hve to agree that hpoo is my mushrooms best friend, and my last cakes i used the poo juice as my water and wholly shiznizzle!!!!! WOW what a difference!!
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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For anyone that has used the lids seal side down will realize is sometimes they have a tendency to stick somewhat whereas metal side down does not. This is just fine tining your technique is all.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: Tampering With A Classic [Re: hyphae]
#5441302 - 03/25/06 02:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said: Micropore over polyfil anyday! The only place I would ever use polyfil would be in a FC for air exchange.
My friend has three lc jars, ready to be inoculated, and he used polyfill in the holes (put one in for the inncoculation and the other to alleviate pressure that he's told will make it difficult to suck into the syringe later?).
Should he replace the polyfill with the micropore tape and pc the jars again? He is assuming polyfill will work fine, but he was sort of concerned that shaking it every day would cause the polyfill to become wet, thus creating a wick for contaminants if it soaked all the way through. 
Also, he heard that the polyfill was self-healing; with micropore, he's assuming that he'd have to lift the tape?
Any insight is appreciated, as he's ready to go with this, finetuning the temperature in the TiT incubator as we speak (damn submersible heater doesn't have a temperature gauge on it, just these bars ). 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Polyfil and LC do not go together never have never will and never should have! YA replace and learn, Tell your friend GL and ya lifting the tape isn't too difficult if he has any problems with that then he should probably start working out. LOL
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Jaeger
Dreamer
Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 960
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Polyfil should work. Just don't swish to hard. It may be hard to get the LC out though. With micropore, you can just piece it, inject, and cover with another piece of tape
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: Tampering With A Classic [Re: hyphae]
#5441341 - 03/25/06 03:12 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said: Polyfil and LC do not go together never have never will and never should have! YA replace and learn, Tell your friend GL and ya lifting the tape isn't too difficult if he has any problems with that then he should probably start working out. LOL
Thanks for the help! At least it isn't a costly mistake, he can simply replace and pressure cook once more, there was no loss of fluid inside the lc or anything like that... he's going to prepare some wbs right now as well and head to bed to dream of tonight and preparing some jars and lc. 
Not sure where the notion of using polyfill for it came from (but I may have an idea, I'm going to search this one out ), but I do profess that I was skeptical! I have documentation to prove it! 
And, of course, lifting the tape isn't a problem. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
Edited by fireworks_god (03/25/06 03:16 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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How will lc look when it comes out of the pressure cooker? Will the honey and water be evenly mixed, the whole jar being one color, or will the bottom portion of the jar be more honey-colored than the rest?
'Cause that's the way my friend's jars look. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Should be uniform if not swirl it around. Also at 15psi 15-20min is all thats needed no more!
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Just inject right through the Micropore tape & add another alc soaked piece - over the first.
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