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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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honey's natural peroxide?
#5436081 - 03/23/06 09:41 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Out of curiosity, has anybody tried a liquid myc culture with unsterilized honey water? I had done some research recently and found that honey naturally contains hydrogen peroxide, as well as other anti-bacterial agents. (Google the words honey and peroxide, lots of good references, studies where they use honey to dress wounds and what have you.) My theory is that in pressure cooking the honey water, we're actually killing off these natural self-defense and self-preservation properties that could be beneficial... thinking that if perhaps unsterilized honey water was innoc'd with liquid myc, or perhaps even a chunk from a grain transfer, that the myc would be hearty enough to continue growing in the liquid, while other contams couldn't really take root? Obviously not the best environment for spore germination... and of course you'd want to warm it gently for a period so the honey would actually dissolve. Any thoughts?
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SmokenBabyJesus
Smoker of Religious Figures

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 1,217
Loc: Maryland
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Re: honey's natural peroxide? [Re: creamcorn]
#5436194 - 03/23/06 10:16 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Honey has an antibacterial activity, due primarily to hydrogen peroxide formed in a "slow-release" manner by the enzyme glucose oxidase present in honey, which can vary widely in potency. Some honeys are no more antibacterial than sugar, while others can be diluted more than 100-fold and still halt the growth of bacteria. The difference in potency of antibacterial activity found among the different honeys is more than 100-fold. "Active manuka honey" (and its Australian equivalent) is the only honey available for sale that is tested for its antibacterial activity. It contains an additional antibacterial component found only in honey produced from Leptospermum plants: what has been called the "Unique Manuka Factor" (UMF). There is evidence that the two antibacterial components may have a synergistic action. UMF is not affected by the catalase enzyme present in body tissue and serum. This enzyme will break down, to some degree, the hydrogen peroxide which is the major antibacterial factor found in other types of honey. If a honey without UMF were used to treat an infection, the potency of the honey's antibacterial activity would most likely be reduced because of the action of catalase. The enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in honey is destroyed when honey is exposed to heat and light. But UMF is stable, so there is no concern about manuka honey losing its activity in storage. The enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in honey becomes active only when honey is diluted. But UMF is active in full strength honey, which will provide a more potent antibacterial action diffusing into the depth of infected tissues. The enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in honey needs oxygen to be available for the reaction, so may not work under wound dressings or in wound cavities. Honey with UMF is active in all situations. The enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in honey becomes active only when the acidity of honey is neutralised by body fluids, but then the honey is diluted. The enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in honey could be destroyed by the protein-digesting enzymes that are in wound fluids. The UMF antibacterial activity diffuses deeper into skin tissues than does the hydrogen peroxide from other types of honey. Honey with UMF is more effective than that with hydrogen peroxide against some types of bacteria. For example, active manuka honey with UMF is about twice as effective as other honey against Eschericihia coli and Staphylococcus aureus, the most common causes of infected wounds. " -http://bio.waikato.ac.nz/honey/special.shtml
It looks very interesting but i'm no expert... so I couldn't tell you if it would work... but i'll do a little more reading to try to get a deeper understanding... good stuff none the less.... thanks
-------------------- "Where?
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Doing a little more digging and from your info above, looks like the h2o2 is produced by gluclose oxidase enzymes... which apparently are inactivated by lots of conditions, but of interest seems to be heat and glass surfaces! (http://courses.cm.utexas.edu/archive/Fall2003/CH204/Stewart/lectures/Lec-8-F03B.ppt)
So it sounds like this enzyme can produce a slow steady stream of h2o2 which sounds totally perfect considering the growing myc has the opposite effect of slowly and steadily breaking it down. Of course heating it in a PC or otherwise is going to inactivate that effect... as will putting it in a glass jar. I guess another piece of this puzzle would be to be sure to use a plastic container if attempting it. Most of the info I find however is totally over my head... I think I might try and find some of this "standardized honey" that has garunteed antibacterial/antimicrobial properties and just do some experimenting, will get some answers quicker that way than trying to theorize about things I don't understand. 
I'm thinking of a concoction of like 95% of such honey 5% water (just because I'm not sure if there's enough moisture present otherwise?) inside a presterilzed plastic petri. I'm thinking once colonized you could stick 'er in the fridge, the honey will harden and you can cut wedges out just like with agar... if it works (and the "standardized honey" is inexpensive enough) it looks like it might be a nice alternative - its like antibiotic agar without needing different ingredients, needing to cook it, waiting for things to cool... etc. Sounds like it could be really simple!
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: honey's natural peroxide? [Re: creamcorn]
#5438757 - 03/24/06 03:35 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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just did some quick math and it looks like agar when bought in bulk runs roughly 5 cents/gram... and manuka honey? roughly 5 cents/gram (based on price of a single 500g jar, bulk would be even less) we're not counting other ingredients to make your agar mixture either... interesting...
obviously no good for spore germination when going the agar-like route, but for myc transfers... i'm gonna give it a shot. and if its still active when diluted 100 times, sounds like a recipe for a LC to me!
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ShroomInduced
I read too manymycology books


Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 309
Loc: A giant mushroom in my he...
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Re: honey's natural peroxide? [Re: creamcorn]
#5444938 - 03/26/06 07:03 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I actually had thought about this before. My girlfriend is all into like making face-wash and crap with honey and other organic products. So one day I was pondering about the natural honey because she was telling me how it had all kinds of natural anti-microbe agents in it. But my only concern is that the honey also is a fungicide. So the honey might just kill off the spores. Its worth a shot. In fact, I'm going to do it right now, she has some honey in the fridge. Ill get back to ya.
Peace
E
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netherstrain
Druidik Scholar

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 72
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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I read an article one time from erowid.org explaining how the indians in southern mexico using honey to naturally preserve mushrooms in there fresh state using clay and glass jars.
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ALHOFF177A17
DoWn RU?

Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 241
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: honey's natural peroxide? [Re: netherstrain]
#5448099 - 03/27/06 04:04 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is getting a little off topic but my freind who introduced me to this hobby first gave me a jar packed full of honey shrooms. It was awesome, and he had them for at least a few weeks in that condition.
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