|
 Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
 b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
 casing layer not colonizing 
#5435749 - 03/23/06 07:49 PM (18 years, 28 days ago) |
|
|
its been over 3 days and it seems like my 7 cases with peat/verm have failed to colonoze even a cm upwards. I used about a 1/4 to 1/2 inch casing layer... wasn't overly moist or anything. I also added in a small handful of pelletized limestone to raise the pH. I am trying to keep the containers somewhat airtight by covering real well with tinfoil and poking a few holes. Anyone have any suggestions?? just wait longer?
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
 
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5435784 - 03/23/06 07:57 PM (18 years, 28 days ago) |
|
|
Too moist or too dry will inhibit casing colonization, as will the health and vigor of your basic substrate. To test for proper casing moisture content, pick up a handfull of casing material; No water should drip out. However, if you squeeze gently, a drop or two will seep out, and if you squeeze hard, a small stream will drip out. That's what we call "field capacity" level. You'll get a feel for it after a few times.
Pelletized limestone will take too long to break down to be of much use in a short lived casing layer. Find some hydrated lime or calcium carbonate flour. You need something that will go to work right away. Did you remember to add gypsum to the casing mix?
RR
--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5435794 - 03/23/06 08:00 PM (18 years, 28 days ago) |
|
|
no, what is gypsum???
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5435805 - 03/23/06 08:02 PM (18 years, 28 days ago) |
|
|
i just checked the moisture it seems to be perfect. Is it not fruiting now just because of the shitty limestone or should i just continue waiting?
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5435874 - 03/23/06 08:33 PM (18 years, 28 days ago) |
|
|
Wait. Patience is the key in this hobby. Even with the wrong lime, it will still fruit at least once. Sometimes you have to just sit back and be a spectator in this hobby. It's hard as hell too...lol.
Gypsum is a mixture of calcium and sulphur. Sheetrock is made from gypsum, and the supplier I get my garden gypsum from obviously sweeps the floor in the sheetrock plant. It's full of white, grey and green paper from the drywall making process. Some consider it optional, but I use it every time in manure, casing material, and even grain spawn.
RR
--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
|
krill
absolute gonzo
Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 521
Loc: mars hotel
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5436026 - 03/23/06 09:24 PM (18 years, 28 days ago) |
|
|
anyone got some pics to show him what to look for???
--------------------
"DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND. IT IS REALITY THAT IS MALFUNCTIONING." - Robert Anton Wilson
NO LEFT TURN UN-STONED
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: krill]
#5441442 - 03/25/06 04:03 PM (18 years, 26 days ago) |
|
|
it looks like they still arent moving and it had been almost a week. I heard that mycelium will not colonize if it is too acidic and that that the cake can form trich while waiting... does anyone think this may be the case? I have 7 huges cases waiting to start showing some signs of growth and i havent seen any. Should I try raising the temp? it is probably at about 78 right now
|
 VirginForest
Learning
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 1
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5443419 - 03/26/06 07:40 AM (18 years, 25 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
b0ngman said:
Should I try raising the temp? it is probably at about 78 right now
78 is almost as low as fruiting temp. When making mycelium colonize the casing, it should be the conditions as colonizing the jars. So get it up to about 86.
78 should maybe work too, but really slow.
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: VirginForest]
#5443446 - 03/26/06 08:07 AM (18 years, 25 days ago) |
|
|
I strongly disagree. 78 is fine. 86 is too hot for a bulk substrate. As said, patience is key. Either way, expose to fruiting conditions at this time.
RR
--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
|
Hotnuts
old hand
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 6 days, 11 hours
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5443493 - 03/26/06 08:42 AM (18 years, 25 days ago) |
|
|
You shouldn't have used pelletized lime stone. It's going to take some time to start seeing rhizomorphs comming up to the top of the casing layer. That lime is hard on the mushroom mycelium yet, it will start to grow upwards as the lime breaks down from the mycelium and time. But, it's going to take a lot more than a week. I've made the same mistake before as well. All you can do is keep the casing layer maintained well and wait it out.
|
hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5443525 - 03/26/06 09:01 AM (18 years, 25 days ago) |
|
|
A few things to remember number one bulk poo casing do produce some heat so use a dial thermometer and learn don't guess what the core temp is this will be a invaluable tool in future casings, the internal temps should be at 84-86F. for best/fastest results. Number two remember and most people seem to have a real hard time comprehending/realizing that mushrooms love lots of moisture! They are 92% compared to our 70% water content, myc simply thrives in a "nearly" saturated environment so get that stuck in your head ASAP and your shrooms will love you for it! Read my pinning strategy it will help trust me. Take my advice and you will save those lucky 7. Gypsum is real unnecessary although it helps with a casings structure most never use it and still have optimal flushes, calcium carbonate is a great buffer although it won't go to work immediately as does hydrated lime. Peat casing do best with a very small amount of hydrated (short term buffer) added with a long term buffer. My suggestion is read my pinning strategy learn what proper water delivery actually is and mist that sucker down ASAP! Covering it thus far is a good idea until you see the myc breaking the surface. Your trying to work with the mycs inertia here as it's transition from vegetative growth to generative growth occurs. As RR said you will also need patience besides the knowledge! GL bro
--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal 
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: hyphae]
#5443734 - 03/26/06 10:43 AM (18 years, 25 days ago) |
|
|
deleted
Edited by b0ngman (03/26/06 10:47 AM)
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: hyphae]
#5443739 - 03/26/06 10:46 AM (18 years, 25 days ago) |
|
|
well, I have been messing with them a little. I probabaly have taken each one out twice in the past week (will be a week tomorrow). I also have powdered limestone... I guess I should have used this, I though it was hydrated lime and would burn the mycelium, but it says "non burning" right on the package so I guess it would have been OK. Would it be wiser to break up the casing and use the powdered lime or should I just ride it out? Most of my casings were done with about 2 3/4 loaded pint jars per about 1 square foot 4" deep. I think my B+ with 5 fully loaded half pints in the same container is starting to go, so mabye i should use more spawn and the powedered lime next time, and mabye a higher temp? I put one of the casings into my roomates closet with a 400w HPS to experiment a little, I will be checking this one out more frequently to make sure it doesnt dry out
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5444337 - 03/26/06 03:26 PM (18 years, 25 days ago) |
|
|
my roomate told me that his closet with the HPS was 80 degrees so i put all the cases in there. My room was probably less than 75 then, hopefully this will make a difference
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5448627 - 03/27/06 07:01 PM (18 years, 24 days ago) |
|
|
how does this look now, ready to patch and stick in FC?
should i patch with just verm or 50/50?
it feels like the casing layer is starting to get a little dryer, what can i do to moisten everything up?
Edited by b0ngman (03/27/06 07:01 PM)
|
hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5448646 - 03/27/06 07:14 PM (18 years, 24 days ago) |
|
|
Very lightly patch and mist it down to near saturation over several light mistings bro.
--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
|
stelthvue
is frightened ofpoo
Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 272
Last seen: 18 years, 2 days
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5448652 - 03/27/06 07:15 PM (18 years, 24 days ago) |
|
|
use a hand sprayer and mist lightly
--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: stelthvue]
#5448956 - 03/27/06 08:45 PM (18 years, 24 days ago) |
|
|
ive got an old cleanex bottle i cleaned it with 95% water and the rest is 3% h202 solution. How far should I hold the bottle away when misting this large case? Do i need to worry about misting to ensure moisture content when I am going to patch with soil that is near saturation?
I'll check all my cases tomorrow and get the FC ready with all the perlite, and then I'll update with some pictures
here is my other little project b.c I couldnt wait for all the jars to fully colonize and had to experiment a little
this is the first casing. VErm on bottom, verm on top, 2 cambo half pints in the middle. Put it in the FC before spring break and left it outside, it prolly got pretty cold a few nights. Came back and it was fruiting, ended up with 2.5 dry just because I picked early b/c i was impatient, but VERY potent IMO. I think this one got a little trich because it turned green so i spooned that part out.
here is casing #2 of my experiment. this one has been in there one week exactly, still no pins. I left it in my room this time because I didnt think the fluctuation it temp was good. Didnt incubate this one, straight into FC. I patched the edges on day 3 i think because i saw the mycel spreading there. It looks as if the verm has turned gold because the mycelium is right under it in many areas, I am waiting for this one to explode.
this is my improvisional FC. Initially I put verm on the bottom to raise the RH. but i took that out. The bag is taped on to allow for the light, and on the side, that is a coffee filter with a hole cut out for gas exchaange.
Few questions:
When i picked the first case, I litterally swept the surface with my hand as I heard you are supposed to pick all shrooms at once. On the other hand, I heard the initial pinset is the pins for the cake's lifespan. So by sweeping the surface did i wipe out a lot of the pins??
Could the lower temperatures have increased the potency or had any positive effect? should i leave the cooler outside with night time low of 50 and daytime high of 80 or continue to leave it inside with constant mid 70s temp??
The cooler has the coffee filter, is this a smart idea for gas exchange? could it be constantly lowering the RH making it impossible for the shrooms to start pinning?
Do i need some sort of layer on the bottom of the cooler to raise the RH? all that I am doing now is lightly misting and allowing the cakes to create the humidity.
My only gauge to tell the RH is the plastic bag on top of the cooler which I constantly check to make sure it is wet and humid inside
Edited by b0ngman (03/27/06 09:15 PM)
|
Dem_Bones
Strangler
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 307
Loc: Oklahoma
Last seen: 2 years, 17 days
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5449737 - 03/28/06 12:43 AM (18 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
well the reson it took so long was that you used fine vermiculite
it what i have localy too, but it real slow stuff down it you use alot of it , in my casing i so 80% 20% peat moss/ verm becase any more that that of teh fine stuff and it goes slower
remember we dont add verm to spped things up we add it becase it holds lots of water and by it self it cant support any thing contams or other wize becase it has no food value , its a rock
next time you make some trays do one with just peat no verm and see just how fast it goes , you know most mushroom farms dont use verm at all
--------------------
At the bottom of this page is a search bar to search all the post and threads on the forum so you can see all the other 500 people who asked the same thing.use the top search too it has shroomery approved FAQs USE IT YOU CAN DO IT !
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: Dem_Bones]
#5450695 - 03/28/06 10:28 AM (18 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
after i stuck the casings in the room with the HPS, it seems like the mycelium colonized pretty quickly,, the contams too!
here is 2 of the 3 casings that got badly contamed when they were put in the warm closest (about 80F). What conditions could have sparked this? what contam is this?
On a positive note the FC is fileld with a Burmese Yangoon, B+, and Ban Pang Ka (rectangular case)
i patched these 2 with a little 50/50
this one i left unpatched b/c the mycelium seems pretty even and i wanna see what happens, it is my 1st grow.
All the cases were put on top of about 1 inch of moist perlite and misted and will be left, hopefully pins soon!
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5450767 - 03/28/06 10:43 AM (18 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
mabye my contams were due to the fact that i didn't pasteurize or do anything to sterilize the 50/50 mix? next time im going to have to do that
|
Hotnuts
old hand
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 6 days, 11 hours
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5451027 - 03/28/06 11:58 AM (18 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
b0ngman said:
here is 2 of the 3 casings that got badly contamed when they were put in the warm closest (about 80F). What conditions could have sparked this? what contam is this?
80 degrees for starters and a lack of frequent air exchange. Trichoderma and other menacing molds love warm, moist and stagnant air enviroments. You need to up the air exchange it appears and get those contaminated projects away from your healthy ones. The green you see on this mold are zillions of spores.
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: Hotnuts]
#5451081 - 03/28/06 12:12 PM (18 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
i thought that when you let the cases incubate, they are in the vegatative growth stage and you do not want to check on them and let any fresh air in. You want the incubating cases to thrive off the carbon dioxide, am i mistaken?? I also thought 80F was a prime temp for incubating cases?
|
b0ngman
Stranger
Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 64
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5452744 - 03/28/06 07:49 PM (18 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
so was i supposed to give the cases fresh air while incubating??? I am confused
|
DIRTYMAN
Jesusdon'tcomethrough thecotton.
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 18,558
Loc: CZ NIGGUH
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: b0ngman]
#5452771 - 03/28/06 07:55 PM (18 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Not fresh air exchange, I think it's called passive air exhange. As long as you have some polyfill/tyvek/other filtered hole to let excess CO2 get pushed out of you're fine. You don't need a fan or anything.
--------------------
I'm racist. http://k-k-k.com/
|
Hypercube
80 SRM
Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 814
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: DIRTYMAN]
#5452902 - 03/28/06 08:25 PM (18 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
K so to JACK this guy's thread (sorry), I have a casing problem of my own.
It's been a looooong time incubating this one casing, I think the moisture was too high and there was too much air exchange during the casing run. I think I cased it close to 3 weeks ago 
I initiated pinning conditions 'bout a week ago, cuz I had lost patience. About 1-2% of the casing had myc popping through. Now, I am thinking of thinning out the casing layer (i.e. taking 1/4" off) and keep up the pinning conditions, so that primordia can fruit on the actual block of substrate.
Is this an OK idea?
--------------------
|
mungojerry
free as a bird
Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Nappy Dub
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: Hypercube]
#5452942 - 03/28/06 08:34 PM (18 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
dude this thread has just explained what happened to me when i tried casing WOULDNT COLONIZE!!!!!
|
hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: Hypercube]
#5452961 - 03/28/06 08:38 PM (18 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
That will work if you don't have the patience. In the mean time read my pinning strategy it will help you next time. BTW you don't want any air exchanges during the casing run the moisture is fine as long as it's not saturated. Optimal temps also play a huge roll in whether your playing the wait game or not. GL
--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
|
Hypercube
80 SRM
Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 814
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
Re: casing layer not colonizing [Re: Hypercube]
#5452999 - 03/28/06 08:49 PM (18 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Yeah, casing was saturated on that one....just fucked it up, and have to move out soon.
Gonna take the casing off it, hopefully I get a flush from it, was a good 10 lbs of substrate...
--------------------
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Edit 
Reply 
psylo330
Fd3000
whyIdied
CoolTJ
paddoholland