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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Freedom and Meth
#5433919 - 03/23/06 10:58 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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IMO adults should have the Freedom to purchase marijuana. And I'm optimistic that we will have the freedom to do that in my lifetime.
But should adults have the Freedom to purchase Meth at the local corner store?
I say no. Personally i had a hard time with it, and I think it would be a mistake to give Americans that Freedom.
P.S i have been told that although i had problems with it many people are able to use Meth with no consequences.
is that true?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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I've never had a problem with meth, despite using it for many years. But it destroyed the lives of so many people around me that I eventually decided that simply being around the stuff wasn't worth it.
should people have the freedom to buy meth? I don't think so. it destroys 9 out of 10 people's lives that it touches. Not only that, it destroys communities. How many times has a pothead stolen someone's stereo to buy more pot? Because meth heads and cokeheads steal/scam shit ALL THE TIME where I live.
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daimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 21 hours
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I think people should be able to do anything they want. But if it's in their system during the commission of a crime, public hanging should be the sentence.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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People have the right to consume amphetamines legally as medicine. Why not recreationally?
What people to to their own body is no conern of mine.
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Redstorm]
#5434080 - 03/23/06 11:30 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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This has always been a tough one for me. On paper I'd like everyone to have the absolute freedom to do whatever they want to their bodies, including suicide if they want. But when I apply that and consider the people in my life that I love and care about.. it gets hard to stick to it.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Redstorm]
#5434179 - 03/23/06 12:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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"What people to to their own body is no concern of mine."
maybe you are right, freedom is freedom.
we should have the freedom to destroy ourselves.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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The little corner store? No. But I think that it doctors should be able to prescribe it to addicts.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Silversoul]
#5434189 - 03/23/06 12:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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fuck addicts. addicts are people who can't accept the fact that what comes up must come down. They are weak pussies with no willpower. No one just stumbles into an addiction by accident. It takes deliberate effort.
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daimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 21 hours
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Silversoul]
#5434192 - 03/23/06 12:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: The little corner store? No. But I think that it doctors should be able to prescribe it to addicts.
I totally disagree. If anyone should not be allowed to have it, it's addicts.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Revelation
ॐ


Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
maybe you are right, freedom is freedom.
we should have the freedom to destroy ourselves.
Exactly. It's not illegal to drink a bottle of bleach, why should drugs be any different. People can do what they want as far as I'm concerned.
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Revelation]
#5434575 - 03/23/06 01:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The problem I would have is people turning to crime because of the addiction.. but if you remove the criminal element by making it legal, that would probably go a long way to making it safer and less impactful on other people. So yeah, legalize meth. heh.
-------------------- Happiness is a warm gun...
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guri
Master of theimprobablitydrive

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 576
Loc: PNWish.
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: unbeliever]
#5434782 - 03/23/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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i think it should be initially allowed for all, but if you mess up and start fucking up your life or others then they should not let you.
and i think jugging bleach is prolly illegal, something to do with using a product for reasons other then those found on the directions. or is that just pills and stuff?
-------------------- "If you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, then go home and burn all your records, all your tapes, and all your CDs because every one of those artists who have made brilliant music and enhanced your lives? The Beatles were so fucking high, they let Ringo sing a few songs." --Bill Hicks
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: guri]
#5434962 - 03/23/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
guri said: i think it should be initially allowed for all, but if you mess up and start fucking up your life or others then they should not let you.
There is actually quite an extensive legal history of just this kind of thing where people are found to be incapable of responsibly handling certain freedoms and thus lose them based on their own personal history.
I think you should be free to take anything you want until you fuck up. The whole notion that drug use leads to crime (other than the use itself) smacks disgustingly of prior restraint, which is a legal anathema in most other cases. The only thing I would change about the above is that they should most certainly be allowed to fuck themselves up. With no expectation of government rescue. The Salvation Army may want to help them but I call them organ donors.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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It's fundamentally reprehensible and offensive to legislate morality and by so doing to tell someone else what they can and cannot do with their own body.
Look around you. Most of what's wrong with the world today results from the attitude that imposing one's ideals on others is right.
If you don't like meth, don't do meth. It's simple.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Diploid]
#5435378 - 03/23/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: It's fundamentally reprehensible and offensive to legislate morality and by so doing to tell someone else what they can and cannot do with their own body.
Look around you. Most of what's wrong with the world today results from the attitude that imposing one's ideals on others is right.
If you don't like meth, don't do meth. It's simple.
You obviously do not live in an area where meth is a problem and greatly effects non-users in society. A few places that come to mind are central Illinois and other semi-rural midwestern areas. They have serious problems with robbery, murder, rape, and child neglect all tied to meth culture. Until you see it, it is hard to understand the scope of the problem.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Catalysis]
#5435442 - 03/23/06 06:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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meth is a problem
The problem is not meth. The problem is prohibition.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Catalysis]
#5435457 - 03/23/06 06:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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My friend here has used meth for years and it hasn't had any negative effects what so ever.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Catalysis]
#5435903 - 03/23/06 08:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Catalysis said: You obviously do not live in an area where meth is a problem and greatly effects non-users in society. A few places that come to mind are central Illinois and other semi-rural midwestern areas. They have serious problems with robbery, murder, rape, and child neglect all tied to meth culture. Until you see it, it is hard to understand the scope of the problem.
For these reasons, I think it is reasonable to impose a hefty tax on meth to pay for the social costs incurs. This way, much of the profit from meth sales goes into fighting the problems it creates.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Silversoul]
#5436009 - 03/23/06 09:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Does anybody support having the government open up "drug clinics" where people can walk in and get high? Here's the catch... 1 out of every certain amount of hits would contain fatal chemicals which would kill the user. Eventually the junkies and the tweakers would kill themselves off.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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how about we make meth legal but also make it legal to shoot meth heads on sight?
sorry to sound overly cynical but meth addicts are not human to me. they are animals. And they choose to become as such.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: DoctorJ]
#5436411 - 03/23/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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How about we just separate them from society and create meth colonies, like they do with lepers?
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch


Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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The people who argue for pot prohibition and alchohol legalization use the same train of thought as you. "People should be able to do what they want to themselves, but I don't know about that weed. It turns people into lazy bastards."
I've met alot of productive tweakers. I've met alot of productive alchoholics. I believe that alchoholism in our culture causes more crime and strife than meth does anyway. If meth was legalized would these problems go up? I'm not sure but I don't think so.
Even if it did thats the cost of living in a free society. Thats the cost of living among other human beings. There will alway be jackasses and they will always fuck around whether they are high on meth or not. Its like blaming guns for the murder rate...
Legalize everything, tax the shit out of substances that have a higher social costs like paradigm mentioned. From there we can as a society maybe make amendments to the availibility but to continue prohibition to me seems like beating a dead horse. Its worth a try, at least. Also I'll be able to get some decent shit on a regular basis instead of resorting to that stepped on garbage from the Armenian down the street.
-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Catalysis]
#5436988 - 03/24/06 02:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Catalysis said: You obviously do not live in an area where meth is a problem and greatly effects non-users in society. A few places that come to mind are central Illinois and other semi-rural midwestern areas. They have serious problems with robbery, murder, rape, and child neglect all tied to meth culture. Until you see it, it is hard to understand the scope of the problem.
The meth culture is what needs to be changed. The only way to do that is by legalizing it. Their is currently NO control over who gets this (or any) drug.
Prohibition has created the current "meth/crack/drug culture". Only by abolishing prohibition can you solve these social problems.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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SmokenBabyJesus
Smoker of Religious Figures

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 1,217
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: niteowl]
#5437193 - 03/24/06 05:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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there is nothing good that would come out of giving meth to those who have never done it. now if you were addicted to meth having a clinic where they could dose you and monitor you and slowly work you off the meth would be a good idea. coke, heroin, meth pcp... there is some bad stuff out there that should not be taken at all... but they are taken.. so... legalize the use of marjiuana/mushrooms for recreational.. and the rest for theraputical uses..
PEACE
-------------------- "Where?
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Rogues_Pierre
Stranger


Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 99
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Meth was legal in Nazi Germany and helped them to be more productive.
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SmokenBabyJesus
Smoker of Religious Figures

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 1,217
Loc: Maryland
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and where is nazi germany now....?
-------------------- "Where?
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 19 minutes
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"Goal pills" were given to fighter pilots in WW2....they contained allot of meth.......they still give a more stripped down version today
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Ekstaza
stranger than most


Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 4,324
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 9 months, 23 days
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Quote:
Rogues_Pierre said: Meth was legal in Nazi Germany and helped them to be more productive.
I can't remember where, but I read that the US gave it's soldiers their own version of the same.
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Ekstaza]
#5443871 - 03/26/06 12:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Pilots have taken speed forever
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ke1n
Stranger


Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 359
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: zappaisgod]
#5445122 - 03/26/06 08:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think the problem with legalizing dangerous drugs is that people have been so reliant and sheepish for years that they have been accustomed to the idea that if something is legal then it is ok for you. There needs to be adequate education on these drugs so a potential user will be informed, despite the legality of the drug.
I beleive someone's decision to put something in their body is their own right and they need to be able to take responsibility for their actions.
--------------------
Everything that is posted, including pictures and text, are a result of fictional storytelling using images found online and/or created using the latest graphics software. I am a fictional writer who likes to explore the internet world. ------------------------------------ http://www.adobe.com/
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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whats the difference between walking down to the liquor store and drinking your life away and walking gown to the methstore and tweaking your life away? both can fuck your life up, but yet one is legal and accepted.
should alcohol be illegal as well?
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Meth prohibition is working well. Besides the INCREASING problems with meth addiction, we now have illegal aliens running meth labs in our national forests, a profit engine for those who lack scruples and any regard for morality or the well being of their fellow man, an extraordinarily high prison population, an institutionalized and LEGALIZED corruption of law enforcement with the spoils system of asset forfeiture and continually diminishing civil liberties and privacy. Why mess with a good thing, eh?
There are people who are capable of using drugs such as meth, cocaine, ecstasy, etc., occasionally, responsibly and with no lasting ill effects. Drug addiction is a mental and physical health issue and should be addressed as such.
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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psilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
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I believe all drugs should be legalized, however that does not mean a total free-for-all. Production and distribution of powerful, refined or synthetic drugs should be regulated and monitored as are medical pharmaceuticals, for the same reason.
Legalization would not solve drug problems in society, in fact without responsible management things would probably get worse.
Should you require authorization from a licensed medical practitioner in order to purchase?
I think in the case of physically dangerous or addictive substances, Yes. Of course people could always find ways round, but at least then most hard drug users would be in contact with help if they wanted it. And could also have the effects explained to them before they start.
Edited by psilomonkey (03/27/06 12:17 PM)
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 167
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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put restrictions on the damn things wouldn't change things one bit, the simple truth is that if you legalize drugs people will have an easier time getting them.
If you restrict access then you have done in effect nothing. It would be no different than it is now.
This country isn't ready for the legalization of hard drugs.
I would have to harden itself against the inevitable demise of the weak. If every dope head who ever thought to try and get dope could get it when they wanted it because a source was in every shopping center the country would know havoc. People who here-to-fore couldn't find it therefore rarely was ever tempted by allure of the dragon could know the dragon's embrace at the a moments whim and a gentle winds push, there would be burgeoning addicts everywhere.
The prices would surely be lower, thus making the actions necessary to obtain funds less reprehensible in the number of cases alone, probably wouldn't affect the nature of the crimes so much though, people who decided against dope for the reason of imminent jail time for one possessing it and or stealing robbing and shit to get funds would now find the external motivation for self control drastically reduced.
It would be chaos, the American people would have to learn to police themselves on a personal level and a civil level. We are not ready for the responsibility.
Example, if a dope fiend busted out my windows to steal my shit and I was home I would administer a severe ass whooping, maybe if dole out death. How many people have what it takes to prevent themselves from being harmed by the increasing number of fiends. Not many have balls or hold the same beliefs as I do.
It would be chaos, I think while it may be OK to legalize herb and shrooms and acid and all other non addictive psychotropics to legalize the hard stuff would be a terrible mistake.
Someone else mentioned hanging those that commit a crime while on the drug, I applaud the notion, what about those that commit crimes trying to buy the drugs, much harder to prove.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Example, if a dope fiend busted out my windows to steal my shit
The only reason someone would steal your shit to pay for drugs is because prohibition makes the drugs so expensive. It is a giant profit motive for organized crime and is no different than the alcohol prohibition decades ago that gave rise to organized crime in this (US) country.
Decriminalizing drugs instantly removes the profit motive that leads to high prices and subsequent crime by users who can't afford to sustain their habit. It would also improve drug safety once the drugs are manufactured by a regulated recreational drug industry.
Decriminalizing drugs would allow law enforcement and correctional resources to be better utilized stopping REAL crime rather than wasted trying to stop something that cannot be stopped so long as there is demand; and there will ALWAYS be demand.
It would be chaos, I think while it may be OK to legalize herb and shrooms and acid and all other non addictive psychotropics to legalize the hard stuff would be a terrible mistake.
Hypocrite! This is the party line of prohibitionists all around the world: "Drugs are bad... well, except the ones I like."
I have news for you: meth is not physically addicting. From that point of view, caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, and opiates are FAR more harmful in that they are both psychologically and physically addicting.
When people like you figure out that it's wrong to jail others for private behavior you personally don't like, the world will become a better place.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (03/27/06 08:32 PM)
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Diploid]
#5448499 - 03/27/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Diploid is RIGHT.
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Diploid]
#5448522 - 03/27/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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While prohibition is generally the reason for addicts stealing shit, I'm not sure that's always the case with meth. Based on the tweakers I've known, a lot of them just like to steal shit while they're tweaking, for reasons having nothing to do with feeding their habit. One sign of a tweaker dwelling is stolen hubcaps displayed proudly on the walls. Meth really fucks with people's heads.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Silversoul]
#5448563 - 03/27/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Based on the tweakers I've known, a lot of them just like to steal shit while they're tweaking
And they should be dealt with like any other thieves. Freedom has a cost to it. Part of that cost is enforcement against those who abuse their freedom. In any case, the billions spent on the War on Drugs and the tax revenue from a regulated recreational drug industry would certainly more than offset the cost of catching the odd tweaker breaking the law.
Meth really fucks with people's heads.
As does alcohol, and Prozac for that matter. Drug problems should be public health issues, not criminal ones.
FYI: I'm an occasional tweaker... and drinker, and lots more. I've never been a 'problem' for society. Much the opposite, actually.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
mack_tasticlies said: Example, if a dope fiend busted out my windows to steal my shit and I was home I would administer a severe ass whooping, maybe if dole out death. How many people have what it takes to prevent themselves from being harmed by the increasing number of fiends. Not many have balls or hold the same beliefs as I do.
not only that, you'd probably get charged for your actions against the thug who broke in.
I think legalizing shit like meth might work if we give people the legal means to protect themselves from the social problems its bound to cause. I mean, people can do what they wanna do, but if they steal my car stereo one more time, I'm going to put holes in them. Its just a shame that I can't legally do that, IMO. Seems to me like that threat would be quite a deterent.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: DoctorJ]
#5448589 - 03/27/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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In the context of cogarettes and alcohol being legal, why not meth as well?
Look at the "societal costs" of smoking: Increasing health costs, decreased life span, etc. etc.
The same is true for alcohol: DWI's, liver failure, bums on the street asking me for money to get a drink.
Although it is often portrayed as such, is meth really so much worse than "legal" drugs?
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
mack_tasticlies said: put restrictions on the damn things wouldn't change things one bit, the simple truth is that if you legalize drugs people will have an easier time getting them.
Wrong.
Ask any teenager what drugs are easier to get weed, crack and meth or alcohol and tobacco. It is much harder for our young people to get their hand on drugs that are legal. They are properly regulated and distributed.
The same can be done for ALL recreational drugs....including meth and heroin.
Street drugs are no different than the "bath tub gin" during prohibition. A dangerous poison made in peoples homes rather than in a controled safe environment.
Quote:
If every dope head who ever thought to try and get dope could get it when they wanted it because a source was in every shopping center the country would know havoc.
Again pure speculation on your part
Quote:
It would be chaos, the American people would have to learn to police themselves on a personal level and a civil level.
It is called freedom of choice.....deal with it.
If you are a burden to society then we have laws to to put you in jail. Take you OUT of the society untill we think you can act civil again. If you continue to be a burden to society we have the means to take you out of society permantly.
Having a legal system that prevents me from consuming drugs of my choosing is not only wrong but harmful to society.
Quote:
Example, if a dope fiend busted out my windows to steal my shit and I was home I would administer a severe ass whooping, maybe if dole out death.
There is nothing wrong with protecting yourself from theift or attack.
People steal for other reasons than drugs. Theifs should be taken out of our society.
Quote:
It would be chaos, I think while it may be OK to legalize herb and shrooms and acid and all other non addictive psychotropics to legalize the hard stuff would be a terrible mistake.

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Someone else mentioned hanging those that commit a crime while on the drug, I applaud the notion, what about those that commit crimes trying to buy the drugs, much harder to prove.
The reason behind the crime is irrelevant. The simple fact that a crime is being commited, is the only reason you need to take the said criminal out of society.
Legalizing ALL recreationsl drugs is the ONLY way to truly control them
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy


Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: badchad]
#5448869 - 03/27/06 08:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's not just the cost of meth that causes the problems associated with it. It is very unhealthy for those who can't use it moderatly (which from what I have seen in the majority of them). People neglect many things in their lives when high on meth. Why are child abuse and neglect so tightly tied to meth abuse?
If it becomes legal, it becomes much easier and cheaper for EVERYONE to get. Same as alcohol - just because you might not be able to buy it doesn't mean you don't know someone that won't happily do it for you. We know a lot of tweekers are going to continue living meager tweeker lives if we legalize it. Some of these replys suggest restricting it certain people - and that sounds more futile and ridiculous than the whole drug war. It would be like a 'War on Underage Drinking' even though it is legal for 21+ persons to drink.
On the flipside, many negative effects of meth are the result of impure product, which most of the black market meth is. Legalizing it would solve this problem right? Yeah, meth users would be better of from a health standpoint, but I would bet there would be a LOT more of them. Anyone watch the Frontline episode about meth? There is a very strong relationship between higher meth purity and higher addict rates.
Meth is a strange animal. I really don't think it can be controlled in sustainable fashion which will benefit all. Its unfortunate that atoms can be arranged into that molecule. It sure fucks up a lot of livlihood.
On a side note:
Comparing illegal drugs to legal ones like alcohol and tobacco is futile and frustarting. They would definatly not be legal if discovered tomorrow. They would be scheduled right up there with the bad boys like mescaline and lsd . Fucking retarded but that's what we're stuck with.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Grok]
#5448943 - 03/27/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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[Meth] is very unhealthy for those who can't use it moderatly
So what? Informed, consenting adults have the right to make stupid decisions. Smoking cigarettes, for example.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



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Some people are just genetically more prone to addiction. If we legalize all drugs and they are plentiful and cheap, survival of the fittest will take care of the drug problem permanently in just a few generations as addiction prone individuals remove themselves from the gene pool.
I say we let evolution solve this problem.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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psilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
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I think that if recreational drugs were legalised and production and distribution regulated, it would be hard to find meth.
My understanding is that it is realativly easy to produce from household chemicals, but not a drug one would choose if they had a choice of cleaner, less damaging substances to choose from.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Men should have the right to dig their own graves, and I should have the right to sell them the shovels.
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
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Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: Some people are just genetically more prone to addiction. If we legalize all drugs and they are plentiful and cheap, survival of the fittest will take care of the drug problem permanently in just a few generations as addiction prone individuals remove themselves from the gene pool.
I say we let evolution solve this problem.
I agree, the thing is it is much easier said than done.
A llot of unfitt people that weren't dope fiends would die in the process.
It would be chaos for some years but eventually natural order would resurface.
The politicians aren't going to buy that, niether are the fundumbassilists of the right.
It is certainly a viable sloution but highly impractical.
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Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



Registered: 03/06/02
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I bet things would be better in a year.
The gangs would be some of the first people to go extinct.
Bloods, Cripps, 18th Street... all of em would be dead in 6 weeks if they had unlimited free crack.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: niteowl]
#5455061 - 03/29/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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niteowl said
"Ask any teenager what drugs are easier to get weed, crack and meth or alcohol and tobacco. It is much harder for our young people to get their hand on drugs that are legal. They are properly regulated and distributed.
The same can be done for ALL recreational drugs....including meth and heroin.
Street drugs are no different than the "bath tub gin" during prohibition. A dangerous poison made in peoples homes rather than in a controled safe environment."
this is obviously speculation, as well as being an outdated cliche.
It is not easier for a teen to get weed than cigarettes. For one most of the kids who smoke pot smoke cigarettes too, however there is probably afar greater number of kids who just smoke cigarettes. Also with cigarettes present in the household, i.e the smoking parents cigarettes are very easy to obtain. The penalties fro buying a teenager cigarettes is probably a lot less severe than selling a a kid swome weed.
I want you to show me supportive data on your ridiculous claim.
what the fuck does properly regulated and distributed mean, does it mean that an adult can't buy cigarettes and then leave the store and give tehm to a kid. If we properly "regulated" meth sales adults(scumbag adults) would simply go buy the shit legally and then turn around selling it illegeally to the teens. It would be much easier and safer that way too for the adult, cause if he got cauhgt with it he has a right to have it.
It is allready regulated, its outlawed completely and we still can't stop people form getting it. Think if it were legal how much harder it would be to control it.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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It is not easier for a teen to get weed than cigarettes.
Wow. You are out of touch.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Xanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Diploid]
#5457827 - 03/30/06 12:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: It is not easier for a teen to get weed than cigarettes.
Wow. You are out of touch.
Not in my area. Cigarettes are ever-present in schools, parties, anywhere. You have to know who to see to get weed. Granted, that is laughably easy, but still, it's retardedly easy for a kid to get a nic fix.
-------------------- If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
mack_tasticlies said: It is not easier for a teen to get weed than cigarettes.

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I want you to show me supportive data on your ridiculous claim.
A teen CAN NOT go to a store and buy cigaretts.
Period. There has to be a middle man.
Any drug dealer in the world will sell weed or meth to any one who hands him/her $$$$
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what the fuck does properly regulated and distributed mean, does it mean that an adult can't buy cigarettes and then leave the store and give tehm to a kid.
That that has been going on forever with alcohol. There will always be someone the teen can find to go get them any thing they want.
What Im talking about being regulated is.... ...allowing law abiding adult citizens to buy and consume any drug of their choice.
The drug itself has to be regulated to. There has to be a controled way to manufacture these drugs.
As long as the adult is not breaking any laws while under the influence they should be able to buy any drug. If they abuse this right, by breaking laws while under the influence, then this priveledge can be taken away.
It isn't hard to do.
If they get someone to buy it for them and they get caught.....,
POW......they get to go to rehab at the cost of the state.
Rehab, not jail.
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If we properly "regulated" meth sales adults(scumbag adults) would simply go buy the shit legally and then turn around selling it illegeally to the teens.
What the FUCK do you think is going on now??????
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It would be much easier and safer that way too for the adult, cause if he got cauhgt with it he has a right to have it.
It would be much safer for the teen too because it would be a properly produced drug.
Not some street trash that could have been made out of ANYTHING.
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It is allready regulated, its outlawed completely and we still can't stop people form getting it. Think if it were legal how much harder it would be to control it.
If you keep doing the same thing and getting the same results.......
....it's time for a change.
Prohibition didn't work in the 1920's and it DAMN sure ain't working NOW.
It is time for a change.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: niteowl]
#5459329 - 03/30/06 12:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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do you think there are less people drinking now than there were during the 20's?
Fuck no, there are probably more people drinking now relative to the population now,why, because it is so easy to get.
You rolled your eyes at my statement about teens getting cigarettes yet you offer no supportive data.
Yeah there has to be a middle man, so fucking what, there is always a middle man in every transaction.
What difference is it if a kid buys cigarettes from a man who is legally allowed to have cigarettes than a man who is illegally in possession of meth?
Besodes if you had bothered to read my posts, all of them, you would see that I am more in favor or the law of natural selection, implementation is the real issue there.
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
mack_tasticlies said: do you think there are less people drinking now than there were during the 20's?
The issue is not how many more people are drinking. The issue is there is NO criminal element to the sale and distrtibution of alcohol now.
When criminals are controlling the sale and distribution of drugs there is no control over how they are produced or distributed.
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Besodes if you had bothered to read my posts, all of them, you would see that I am more in favor or the law of natural selection, implementation is the real issue there
I did read all of your posts.
What the fuck does "natural selection" have to do with legalizing meth?
The only way to implement any form of control over recreational drugs is to legalize them and let those who want them buy them in a controled environment.
In our economy the law of supply and demand is in effect. As long as there is someone who wants a product there will be someone willing to sell it to them.
Legalizing All recreational drugs is the only viable solution to controling them.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Dreamer987
The VerbalHerman Munster


Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 5,326
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: niteowl]
#5464212 - 03/31/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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prohibition dosen't work. but Meth in the corner store would be setting people up for disaster. Retail Drug stores run like a pharmacy, for hard drugs. Records kept of who's buying what to help catch addiction, and use the taxing to help pay for treatment.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Diploid]
#5464279 - 03/31/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey diploid... i agree with your thoughts about prohibition
but i think you need to provide a source to back up this:
"I have news for you: meth is not physically addicting. "
not saying your wrong, but ive never heard anyone make that claim before, what are you basing that on?
btw: pot IS easier to get than alcohol, where i live. Much.
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Moonshoe]
#5464605 - 03/31/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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what are you basing that on?
It's common knowledge.
If you really want a citation, check the Merck Index or the PDR.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (03/31/06 05:51 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Diploid]
#5465029 - 03/31/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I looked it up for you. Here's the addiction warning in the PDR entry for Desoxyn (Abbott's trade name for meth):
Abuse: Methamphetamine has been extensively abused. Tolerance, extreme psychological dependence, and severe social disability have occurred. There are reports of patients who have increased the dosage to many times that recommended. Abrupt cessation following prolonged high dosage administration results in extreme fatigue and mental depression; changes are also noted on the sleep EEG. Manifestations of chronic intoxication with methamphetamine include severe dermatoses, marked insomnia, irritability, hyperactivity, and personality changes. The most severe manifestation of chronic intoxication is psychosis often clinically indistinguishable from schizophrenia.
No physical dependence.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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