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Invisibleniteowl
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Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5448841 - 03/27/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mack_tasticlies said:
put restrictions on the damn things wouldn't change things one bit, the simple truth is that if you legalize drugs people will have an easier time getting them.




Wrong.

Ask any teenager what drugs are easier to get weed, crack and meth or alcohol and tobacco.
It is much harder for our young people to get their hand on drugs that are legal. They are properly regulated and distributed.

The same can be done for ALL recreational drugs....including meth and heroin.

Street drugs are no different than the "bath tub gin" during prohibition. A dangerous poison made in peoples homes rather than in a controled safe environment.


Quote:

If every dope head who ever thought to try and get dope could get it when they wanted it because a source was in every shopping center the country would know havoc.




Again pure speculation on your part


Quote:

It would be chaos, the American people would have to learn to police themselves on a personal level and a civil level.





It is called freedom of choice.....deal with it.

If you are a burden to society then we have laws to to put you in jail. Take you OUT of the society untill we think you can act civil again. If you continue to be a burden to society we have the means to take you out of society permantly.

Having a legal system that prevents me from consuming drugs of my choosing is not only wrong but harmful to society.


Quote:

Example, if a dope fiend busted out my windows to steal my shit and I was home I would administer a severe ass whooping, maybe if dole out death.




There is nothing wrong with protecting yourself from theift or attack.

People steal for other reasons than drugs.
Theifs should be taken out of our society.

Quote:

It would be chaos, I think while it may be OK to legalize herb and shrooms and acid and all other non addictive psychotropics to legalize the hard stuff would be a terrible mistake.




:rolleyes:

Quote:

Someone else mentioned hanging those that commit a crime while on the drug, I applaud the notion, what about those that commit crimes trying to buy the drugs, much harder to prove.




The reason behind the crime is irrelevant. The simple fact that a crime is being commited, is the only reason you need to take the said criminal out of society.

Legalizing ALL recreationsl drugs is the ONLY way to truly control them


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineGrok
Has Been a Bad Boy
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Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: badchad]
    #5448869 - 03/27/06 08:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It's not just the cost of meth that causes the problems associated with it. It is very unhealthy for those who can't use it moderatly (which from what I have seen in the majority of them). People neglect many things in their lives when high on meth. Why are child abuse and neglect so tightly tied to meth abuse?

If it becomes legal, it becomes much easier and cheaper for EVERYONE to get. Same as alcohol - just because you might not be able to buy it doesn't mean you don't know someone that won't happily do it for you.  We know a lot of tweekers are going to continue living meager tweeker lives if we legalize it. Some of these replys suggest restricting it certain people - and that sounds more futile and ridiculous than the whole drug war. It would be like a 'War on Underage Drinking' even though it is legal for 21+ persons to drink.

On the flipside, many negative effects of meth are the result of impure product, which most of the black market meth is. Legalizing it would solve this problem right? Yeah, meth users would be better of from a health standpoint, but I would bet there would be a LOT more of them. Anyone watch the Frontline episode about meth? There is a very strong relationship between higher meth purity and higher addict rates.

Meth is a strange animal. I really don't think it can be controlled in  sustainable fashion which will benefit all. Its unfortunate that atoms can be arranged into that molecule. It sure fucks up a lot of livlihood.

On a side note:

Comparing illegal drugs to legal ones like alcohol and tobacco is futile and frustarting. They would definatly not be legal if discovered tomorrow. They would be scheduled right up there with the bad boys like mescaline and lsd :cool:. Fucking retarded but that's what we're stuck with.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Grok]
    #5448943 - 03/27/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

[Meth] is very unhealthy for those who can't use it moderatly

So what? Informed, consenting adults have the right to make stupid decisions. Smoking cigarettes, for example.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5450019 - 03/28/06 05:53 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Some people are just genetically more prone to addiction. If we legalize all drugs and they are plentiful and cheap, survival of the fittest will take care of the drug problem permanently in just a few generations as addiction prone individuals remove themselves from the gene pool.

I say we let evolution solve this problem.


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
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\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
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<) )>    SOLDIERS
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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5450211 - 03/28/06 07:45 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think that if recreational drugs were legalised and production and distribution regulated, it would be hard to find meth.

My understanding is that it is realativly easy to produce from household chemicals, but not a drug one would choose if they had a choice of cleaner, less damaging substances to choose from.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5450918 - 03/28/06 11:21 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Men should have the right to dig their own graves, and I should have the right to sell them the shovels.


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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #5451082 - 03/28/06 12:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Some people are just genetically more prone to addiction. If we legalize all drugs and they are plentiful and cheap, survival of the fittest will take care of the drug problem permanently in just a few generations as addiction prone individuals remove themselves from the gene pool.

I say we let evolution solve this problem.




I agree, the thing is it is much easier said than done.

A llot of unfitt people that weren't dope fiends would die in the process.

It would be chaos for some years but eventually natural order would resurface.

The politicians aren't going to buy that, niether are the fundumbassilists of the right.

It is certainly a viable sloution but highly impractical.


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InvisibleLuddite
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Registered: 03/23/06
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5452382 - 03/28/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5452438 - 03/28/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I bet things would be better in a year.

The gangs would be some of the first people to go extinct.

Bloods, Cripps, 18th Street... all of em would be dead in 6 weeks if they had unlimited free crack.


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: niteowl]
    #5455061 - 03/29/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

niteowl said

"Ask any teenager what drugs are easier to get weed, crack and meth or alcohol and tobacco.
It is much harder for our young people to get their hand on drugs that are legal. They are properly regulated and distributed.

The same can be done for ALL recreational drugs....including meth and heroin.

Street drugs are no different than the "bath tub gin" during prohibition. A dangerous poison made in peoples homes rather than in a controled safe environment."


this is obviously speculation, as well as being an outdated cliche.

It is not easier for a teen to get weed than cigarettes. For one most of the kids who smoke pot smoke cigarettes too, however there is probably afar greater number of kids who just smoke cigarettes. Also with cigarettes present in the household, i.e the smoking parents cigarettes are very easy to obtain. The penalties fro buying a teenager cigarettes is probably a lot less severe than selling a a kid swome weed.

I want you to show me supportive data on your ridiculous claim.

what the fuck does properly regulated and distributed mean, does it mean that an adult can't buy cigarettes and then leave the store and give tehm to a kid. If we properly "regulated" meth sales adults(scumbag adults) would simply go buy the shit legally and then turn around selling it illegeally to the teens. It would be much easier and safer that way too for the adult, cause if he got cauhgt with it he has a right to have it.

It is allready regulated, its outlawed completely and we still can't stop people form getting it. Think if it were legal how much harder it would be to control it.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5456752 - 03/29/06 07:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It is not easier for a teen to get weed than cigarettes.

Wow. You are out of touch.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Diploid]
    #5457827 - 03/30/06 12:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
It is not easier for a teen to get weed than cigarettes.

Wow. You are out of touch.




Not in my area. Cigarettes are ever-present in schools, parties, anywhere. You have to know who to see to get weed. Granted, that is laughably easy, but still, it's retardedly easy for a kid to get a nic fix.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5458345 - 03/30/06 06:16 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mack_tasticlies said:
It is not easier for a teen to get weed than cigarettes.



:rolleyes:


Quote:

I want you to show me supportive data on your ridiculous claim.




A teen CAN NOT go to a store and buy cigaretts.

Period.
There has to be a middle man.

Any drug dealer in the world will sell weed or meth to any one who hands him/her $$$$

Quote:

what the fuck does properly regulated and distributed mean, does it mean that an adult can't buy cigarettes and then leave the store and give tehm to a kid.




That that has been going on forever with alcohol. There will always be someone the teen can find to go get them any thing they want.


What Im talking about being regulated is....
...allowing law abiding adult citizens to buy and consume any drug of their choice.

The drug itself has to be regulated to.
There has to be a controled way to manufacture these drugs.

As long as the adult is not breaking any laws while under the influence they should be able to buy any drug. If they abuse this right, by breaking laws while under the influence, then this priveledge can be taken away.

It isn't hard to do.

If they get someone to buy it for them and they get caught.....,

POW......they get to go to rehab at the cost of the state.

Rehab, not jail.

Quote:

If we properly "regulated" meth sales adults(scumbag adults) would simply go buy the shit legally and then turn around selling it illegeally to the teens.




What the FUCK do you think is going on now??????


Quote:

It would be much easier and safer that way too for the adult, cause if he got cauhgt with it he has a right to have it.




It would be much safer for the teen too because it would be a properly produced drug.

Not some street trash that could have been made out of ANYTHING.

Quote:

It is allready regulated, its outlawed completely and we still can't stop people form getting it.  Think if it were legal how much harder it would be to control it.




If you keep doing the same thing and getting the same results.......


....it's time for a change.

Prohibition didn't work in the 1920's and it DAMN sure ain't working NOW.


It is time for a change.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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Offlinemack_tasticlies
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: niteowl]
    #5459329 - 03/30/06 12:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

do you think there are less people drinking now than there were during the 20's?

Fuck no, there are probably more people drinking now relative to the population now,why, because it is so easy to get.

You rolled your eyes at my statement about teens getting cigarettes yet you offer no supportive data.

Yeah there has to be a middle man, so fucking what, there is always a middle man in every transaction.

What difference is it if a kid buys cigarettes from a man who is legally allowed to have cigarettes than a man who is illegally in possession of meth?

Besodes if you had bothered to read my posts, all of them, you would see that I am more in favor or the law of natural selection, implementation is the real issue there.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5460407 - 03/30/06 04:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mack_tasticlies said:
do you think there are less people drinking now than there were during the 20's?




The issue is not how many more people are drinking.
The issue is there is NO criminal element to the sale and distrtibution of alcohol now.

When criminals are controlling the sale and distribution of drugs there is no control over how they are produced or distributed.

Quote:

Besodes if you had bothered to read my posts, all of them, you would see that I am more in favor or the law of natural selection, implementation is the real issue there




I did read all of your posts.

What the fuck does "natural selection" have to do with legalizing meth?

The only way to implement any form of control over recreational drugs is to legalize them and let those who want them buy them in a controled environment.

In our economy the law of supply and demand is in effect. As long as there is someone who wants a product there will be someone willing to sell it to them.

Legalizing All recreational drugs is the only viable solution to controling them.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineDreamer987
The VerbalHerman Munster
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Registered: 04/15/03
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: niteowl]
    #5464212 - 03/31/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

prohibition dosen't work.
but Meth in the corner store would be setting people up for disaster.
Retail Drug stores run like a pharmacy, for hard drugs.
Records kept of who's buying what to help catch addiction, and use the taxing to help pay for treatment.


--------------------


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Diploid]
    #5464279 - 03/31/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Hey diploid... i agree with your thoughts about prohibition

but i think you need to provide a source to back up this:

"I have news for you: meth is not physically addicting. "

not saying your wrong, but ive never heard anyone make that claim before, what are you basing that on?

btw: pot IS easier to get than alcohol, where i live. Much.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Moonshoe]
    #5464605 - 03/31/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

what are you basing that on?

It's common knowledge.

If you really want a citation, check the Merck Index or the PDR.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (03/31/06 05:51 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Diploid]
    #5465029 - 03/31/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I looked it up for you. Here's the addiction warning in the PDR entry for Desoxyn (Abbott's trade name for meth):

Abuse: Methamphetamine has been extensively abused. Tolerance, extreme psychological dependence, and severe social disability have occurred. There are reports of patients who have increased the dosage to many times that recommended. Abrupt cessation following prolonged high dosage administration results in extreme fatigue and mental depression; changes are also noted on the sleep EEG. Manifestations of chronic intoxication with methamphetamine include severe dermatoses, marked insomnia, irritability, hyperactivity, and personality changes. The most severe manifestation of chronic intoxication is psychosis often clinically indistinguishable from schizophrenia.

No physical dependence.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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