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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5436411 - 03/23/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

How about we just separate them from society and create meth colonies, like they do with lepers?


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5436435 - 03/23/06 11:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The people who argue for pot prohibition and alchohol legalization use the same train of thought as you. "People should be able to do what they want to themselves, but I don't know about that weed. It turns people into lazy bastards."

I've met alot of productive tweakers. I've met alot of productive alchoholics. I believe that alchoholism in our culture causes more crime and strife than meth does anyway. If meth was legalized would these problems go up? I'm not sure but I don't think so.

Even if it did thats the cost of living in a free society. Thats the cost of living among other human beings. There will alway be jackasses and they will always fuck around whether they are high on meth or not. Its like blaming guns for the murder rate...

Legalize everything, tax the shit out of substances that have a higher social costs like paradigm mentioned. From there we can as a society maybe make amendments to the availibility but to continue prohibition to me seems like beating a dead horse. Its worth a try, at least. Also I'll be able to get some decent shit on a regular basis instead of resorting to that stepped on garbage from the Armenian down the street.


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
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Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Catalysis]
    #5436988 - 03/24/06 02:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
You obviously do not live in an area where meth is a problem and greatly effects non-users in society. A few places that come to mind are central Illinois and other semi-rural midwestern areas. They have serious problems with robbery, murder, rape, and child neglect all tied to meth culture. Until you see it, it is hard to understand the scope of the problem.





The meth culture is what needs to be changed. The only way to do that is by legalizing it. Their is currently NO control over who gets this (or any) drug.

Prohibition has created the current "meth/crack/drug culture".
Only by abolishing prohibition can you solve these social problems.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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InvisibleSmokenBabyJesus
Smoker of Religious Figures

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 1,217
Loc: Maryland
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: niteowl]
    #5437193 - 03/24/06 05:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

there is nothing good that would come out of giving meth to those who have never done it. now if you were addicted to meth having a clinic where they could dose you and monitor you and slowly work you off the meth would be a good idea. coke, heroin, meth pcp... there is some bad stuff out there that should not be taken at all... but they are taken.. so... legalize the use of marjiuana/mushrooms for recreational..
and the rest for theraputical uses..

PEACE


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"Where?


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InvisibleRogues_Pierre
Stranger
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Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 99
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: SmokenBabyJesus]
    #5437300 - 03/24/06 06:29 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Meth was legal in Nazi Germany and helped them to be more productive.


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InvisibleSmokenBabyJesus
Smoker of Religious Figures

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 1,217
Loc: Maryland
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Rogues_Pierre]
    #5438609 - 03/24/06 02:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

and where is nazi germany now....?


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"Where?


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OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
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Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: SmokenBabyJesus]
    #5438637 - 03/24/06 02:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"Goal pills" were given to fighter pilots in WW2....they contained allot of meth.......they still give a more stripped down version today


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineEkstaza
stranger than most
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Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 4,324
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 9 months, 23 days
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Rogues_Pierre]
    #5443859 - 03/26/06 11:55 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Rogues_Pierre said:
Meth was legal in Nazi Germany and helped them to be more productive.



I can't remember where, but I read that the US gave it's soldiers their own version of the same.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5443871 - 03/26/06 12:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Pilots have taken speed forever


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Offlineke1n
Stranger
Male

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 359
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5445122 - 03/26/06 08:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think the problem with legalizing dangerous drugs is that people have been so reliant and sheepish for years that they have been accustomed to the idea that if something is legal then it is ok for you. There needs to be adequate education on these drugs so a potential user will be informed, despite the legality of the drug.

I beleive someone's decision to put something in their body is their own right and they need to be able to take responsibility for their actions.


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Everything that is posted, including pictures and text, are a result of fictional storytelling using images found online and/or created using the latest graphics software. I am a fictional writer who likes to explore the internet world.
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http://www.adobe.com/


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5445182 - 03/26/06 08:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

whats the difference between walking down to the liquor store and drinking your life away and walking gown to the methstore and tweaking your life away? both can fuck your life up, but yet one is legal and accepted.

should alcohol be illegal as well?


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OfflineSkeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5445477 - 03/26/06 10:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Meth prohibition is working well. Besides the INCREASING problems with meth addiction, we now have illegal aliens running meth labs in our national forests, a profit engine for those who lack scruples and any regard for morality or the well being of their fellow man, an extraordinarily high prison population, an institutionalized and LEGALIZED corruption of law enforcement with the spoils system of asset forfeiture and continually diminishing civil liberties and privacy. Why mess with a good thing, eh?

There are people who are capable of using drugs such as meth, cocaine, ecstasy, etc., occasionally, responsibly and with no lasting ill effects. Drug addiction is a mental and physical health issue and should be addressed as such.


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Sincerely,

Skeptikos


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5447186 - 03/27/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I believe all drugs should be legalized, however that does not mean a total free-for-all. Production and distribution of powerful, refined or synthetic drugs should be regulated and monitored as are medical pharmaceuticals, for the same reason.

Legalization would not solve drug problems in society, in fact without responsible management things would probably get worse.

Should you require authorization from a licensed medical practitioner in order to purchase?

I think in the case of physically dangerous or addictive substances, Yes. Of course people could always find ways round, but at least then most hard drug users would be in contact with help if they wanted it. And could also have the effects explained to them before they start.


Edited by psilomonkey (03/27/06 12:17 PM)


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Offlinemack_tasticlies
Stranger
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Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 167
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Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: psilomonkey]
    #5448158 - 03/27/06 04:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

put restrictions on the damn things wouldn't change things one bit, the simple truth is that if you legalize drugs people will have an easier time getting them.

If you restrict access then you have done in effect nothing. It would be no different than it is now.

This country isn't ready for the legalization of hard drugs.

I would have to harden itself against the inevitable demise of the weak. If every dope head who ever thought to try and get dope could get it when they wanted it because a source was in every shopping center the country would know havoc. People who here-to-fore couldn't find it therefore rarely was ever tempted by allure of the dragon could know the dragon's embrace at the a moments whim and a gentle winds push, there would be burgeoning addicts everywhere.

The prices would surely be lower, thus making the actions necessary to obtain funds less reprehensible in the number of cases alone, probably wouldn't affect the nature of the crimes so much though, people who decided against dope for the reason of imminent jail time for one possessing it and or stealing robbing and shit to get funds would now find the external motivation for self control drastically reduced.

It would be chaos, the American people would have to learn to police themselves on a personal level and a civil level. We are not ready for the responsibility.

Example, if a dope fiend busted out my windows to steal my shit and I was home I would administer a severe ass whooping, maybe if dole out death. How many people have what it takes to prevent themselves from being harmed by the increasing number of fiends. Not many have balls or hold the same beliefs as I do.

It would be chaos, I think while it may be OK to legalize herb and shrooms and acid and all other non addictive psychotropics to legalize the hard stuff would be a terrible mistake.

Someone else mentioned hanging those that commit a crime while on the drug, I applaud the notion, what about those that commit crimes trying to buy the drugs, much harder to prove.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5448477 - 03/27/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Example, if a dope fiend busted out my windows to steal my shit

The only reason someone would steal your shit to pay for drugs is because prohibition makes the drugs so expensive. It is a giant profit motive for organized crime and is no different than the alcohol prohibition decades ago that gave rise to organized crime in this (US) country.

Decriminalizing drugs instantly removes the profit motive that leads to high prices and subsequent crime by users who can't afford to sustain their habit. It would also improve drug safety once the drugs are manufactured by a regulated recreational drug industry.

Decriminalizing drugs would allow law enforcement and correctional resources to be better utilized stopping REAL crime rather than wasted trying to stop something that cannot be stopped so long as there is demand; and there will ALWAYS be demand.

It would be chaos, I think while it may be OK to legalize herb and shrooms and acid and all other non addictive psychotropics to legalize the hard stuff would be a terrible mistake.

Hypocrite! This is the party line of prohibitionists all around the world: "Drugs are bad... well, except the ones I like."

I have news for you: meth is not physically addicting. From that point of view, caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, and opiates are FAR more harmful in that they are both psychologically and physically addicting.

When people like you figure out that it's wrong to jail others for private behavior you personally don't like, the world will become a better place.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (03/27/06 08:32 PM)


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OfflineSkeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Diploid]
    #5448499 - 03/27/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

:thumbup:  Diploid is RIGHT.


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Sincerely,

Skeptikos


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Diploid]
    #5448522 - 03/27/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

While prohibition is generally the reason for addicts stealing shit, I'm not sure that's always the case with meth. Based on the tweakers I've known, a lot of them just like to steal shit while they're tweaking, for reasons having nothing to do with feeding their habit. One sign of a tweaker dwelling is stolen hubcaps displayed proudly on the walls. Meth really fucks with people's heads.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: Silversoul]
    #5448563 - 03/27/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Based on the tweakers I've known, a lot of them just like to steal shit while they're tweaking

And they should be dealt with like any other thieves. Freedom has a cost to it. Part of that cost is enforcement against those who abuse their freedom. In any case, the billions spent on the War on Drugs and the tax revenue from a regulated recreational drug industry would certainly more than offset the cost of catching the odd tweaker breaking the law.

Meth really fucks with people's heads.

As does alcohol, and Prozac for that matter. Drug problems should be public health issues, not criminal ones.

FYI: I'm an occasional tweaker... and drinker, and lots more. I've never been a 'problem' for society. Much the opposite, actually.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: mack_tasticlies]
    #5448567 - 03/27/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mack_tasticlies said:
Example, if a dope fiend busted out my windows to steal my shit and I was home I would administer a severe ass whooping, maybe if dole out death. How many people have what it takes to prevent themselves from being harmed by the increasing number of fiends. Not many have balls or hold the same beliefs as I do.






not only that, you'd probably get charged for your actions against the thug who broke in.

I think legalizing shit like meth might work if we give people the legal means to protect themselves from the social problems its bound to cause. I mean, people can do what they wanna do, but if they steal my car stereo one more time, I'm going to put holes in them. Its just a shame that I can't legally do that, IMO. Seems to me like that threat would be quite a deterent.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Freedom and Meth [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5448589 - 03/27/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

In the context of cogarettes and alcohol being legal, why not meth as well?

Look at the "societal costs" of smoking: Increasing health costs, decreased life span, etc. etc.

The same is true for alcohol: DWI's, liver failure, bums on the street asking me for money to get a drink.

Although it is often portrayed as such, is meth really so much worse than "legal" drugs?


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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