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wilshire
free radical


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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5438209 - 03/24/06 12:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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making the case that most americans have more freedom to use recreational drugs than people in backwards-assed fundamentalist muslim countries isn't saying much.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5438299 - 03/24/06 01:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Saudi officials make no exceptions.
That's Saudi tho. I always thought many Islamic societies were tolerant of cannabis until the US forced them into prohibition. Wasn't pot legal in Morrocco until 1960 when the US cracked down on them?
call bullshit. While there have been instances of the U.S. government using aid or coercion with other governments when it came to drugs (Colombia for example) show me proof that all of the other countries that have crafted anti-drug legislation (about 99% of the nations of this world) did so because America did.
I'd have to read up on the history but I thought the UN anti-drug conventions were the root of the problem. I know a lot of european countries want to relax drug laws but because they've signed up to the UN and know the US would go absolutely fucking apeshit with them if they tried going easy on drugs.
The US is always the problem whenever anyone tries to reform the UN conventions.
The CND's annual meeting serves as a forum for nations to debate drug policy. At the 2005 meeting, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Canada, Australia and Iran rallied in opposition to the UN's zero-tolerance approach in international drug policy. Their appeal was vetoed by the United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Convention_on_Narcotic_Drugs
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Alex213
Stranger
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Alex213]
#5438350 - 03/24/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Tuesday's Washington Post carried a startling update of new policies in Iran. Once a staunch co-supporter of U.S.-style zero tolerance drug policies, the government of Iran appears ready enact some smarter programs.
Fearing an AIDS epidemic, Iran's government has dropped a zero-tolerance policy against increasingly common heroin use and now offers addicts low-cost needles, methadone and a measure of social acceptance.
Reports from the past few weeks indicate that other former zero-tolerance governments are making similar shifts, including China and Malaysia.
Meanwhile, in the U.S. the Office of National Drug Control Policy continues to work against nearly every form of harm reduction.
AIDS CRISIS BRINGS RADICAL CHANGE IN IRAN'S RESPONSE TO HEROIN USE
Health Concerns Given Precedence Over Prosecution
TEHRAN -- Fearing an AIDS epidemic, Iran's theocratic government has dropped a zero-tolerance policy against increasingly common heroin use and now offers addicts low-cost needles, methadone and a measure of social acceptance.
For two decades, Iran largely avoided the global AIDS crisis. But today, officials are alarmed by a 25 percent HIV infection rate that one survey has found among hard-core heroin users and worry that addicts may channel the virus into the population of 68 million.
Supporters of the government's new approach laud it as practical and devoid of the wishful thinking and moralism that they contend hampers policies on drug abuse and AIDS in some other countries, including the United States. "I have to pay tribute to Iran on this," said Roberto Arbitrio, head of the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime in Tehran.
Bijan Nasirimanesh, who heads a drop-in clinic that dispenses needles, bleach and methadone in a hard-hit area of south Tehran, said, "It's ironic that Iran, very fundamentalist, very religious -- very religious -- has been able to convince itself" to embrace such policies.
Opponents often argue that tolerance of life-destroying drugs is simply unacceptable and in the long run breeds acceptance and higher drug use. But in the theocracy's most dramatic rejection of that approach, the ayatollah who heads Iran's conservative judiciary issued an executive order embracing "such needed and fruitful programs" as needle exchanges and methadone maintenance.
Ayatollah Mohammad Esmail Shoshtari, the justice minister who has shut more than 100 newspapers and imprisoned political opponents, instructed prosecutors in a Jan. 24 letter to ignore laws on the books and defer to Iran's Health Ministry to counter the spread of AIDS and hepatitis C.
"This was a very crucial step," said Ali Hashemi, director of Iran's Drug Control Headquarters, a cabinet-level office. "Inevitably we have to do this in order to reduce the risk of AIDS."
Still, many drug experts say the government has shown a consistent disregard for orthodoxies in this fight. Mokri said he was astonished to encounter no official resistance when he set out to launch a pilot program that will dispense actual opium instead of methadone to addicts.
He noted a bill pending in the U.S. Congress calling for imprisoning Americans who failed to report marijuana dealers. "Sometimes I think the ayatollahs are more liberal," Mokri said.
http://www.mapinc.org/alert/0312.html
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Alex213]
#5438620 - 03/24/06 02:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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My God! The United States should be more like Iran!!!!!
Its funny how the America haters and the Bush haters, cant stomach this president simply standing up for a mans life.
Shouldn't the liberals be applauding Bush for his stance on religious freedom?
NO!!!
Lets equate the anti drug policy of the USA and its illegal war to prove that Bush has no moral ground to stick up for a man who might die because of his religion.
Fucking limpwristed indecisive pansies!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Alex213]
#5438812 - 03/24/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said: Your drug war analogy is flawed. There is a difference between people being imprisoned for possessing a substance and somebody being executed for exercising their free will and engaging in a particular type of belief system. By the way, if you think the American drug war is bad go to Saudi Arabia where they will hack off your head if you are caught with a joint.
Then again the US is the main enforcer behind the worldwide drug war. If the US lightened up on persecuting people for the terrible crime of ingesting a plant I'm sure the situation would ease in many other countries.
Complete and utter bullshit. Almost every nation in the world has laws against drug use, more than a few against alcohol. What do they do to you if you have wine with dinner in Iran?
mistyped "wine"
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Edited by zappaisgod (03/24/06 05:01 PM)
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5438915 - 03/24/06 04:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Shariah Law is a joke and it's frankly hilarious when it's actually enforced
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5438925 - 03/24/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Its funny how the America haters and the Bush haters, cant stomach this president simply standing up for a mans life.
It's funny how we invaded this country a few years ago and supposedly got rid of an oppressive government. It's nice to see my tax dollars are going to a good cause.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Silversoul]
#5438955 - 03/24/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Its funny how the America haters and the Bush haters, cant stomach this president simply standing up for a mans life.
It's funny how we invaded this country a few years ago and supposedly got rid of an oppressive government. It's nice to see my tax dollars are going to a good cause.
Your tax dollars? YOUR tax dollars? Puhleeze.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: zappaisgod]
#5439008 - 03/24/06 05:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Believe it or not, I do pay taxes.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Silversoul]
#5439064 - 03/24/06 05:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: Believe it or not, I do pay taxes.
Really? I thought you were still chilling on the couch at your parent's place.

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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5439069 - 03/24/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I actually recently landed a job. But even aside from that, the fact remains that I have had jobs before, and consequently paid taxes. Furthermore, this has nothing to do with the topic.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Alex213]
#5439111 - 03/24/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said: The US is always the problem
I'm absolutely shocked to hear you say this. 
Quote:
Alex213 said: The CND's annual meeting serves as a forum for nations to debate drug policy. At the 2005 meeting, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Canada, Australia and Iran rallied in opposition to the UN's zero-tolerance approach in international drug policy. Their appeal was vetoed by the United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Convention_on_Narcotic_Drugs
Countries routinely ignore UN "rules and regulations". The UN issues all kinds of proclamations and a lot of the time individual nations don't listen or listen half-heartedly.
Indonesia is incredibly harsh on drug violators (the news forum is full of stories of tourists getting busted with a joint or an E pill and facing hard prison time). That is another example of a nation that has harsher drug penalties than America. In order for these anti-drug laws to exist in other countries there has to be some amount of public support for them in these other countries. I would be interested in seeing some polls from foreign countries that show support or non-support for drug prohibition. If there is a significant amount of people in other countries that support drug prohibition, I think this would be ample proof that support for drug prohibition springs from areas other than "America using its influence to get its way".
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Silversoul]
#5439115 - 03/24/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: Furthermore, this has nothing to do with the topic.
Calm down there buddy. I was just pulling your leg.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Silversoul]
#5439136 - 03/24/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: I actually recently landed a job.
Congratulations. When you move out I'll change my sig.
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Edited by zappaisgod (03/24/06 06:12 PM)
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: zappaisgod]
#5439154 - 03/24/06 06:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ouch....that's harsh.
Getting off topic again. Must....stop....myself....from...post-whoring.
Edited by RandalFlagg (03/24/06 06:15 PM)
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5439703 - 03/24/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Paradigm stated:
It's funny how we invaded this country a few years ago and supposedly got rid of an oppressive government. It's nice to see my tax dollars are going to a good cause.
At the bar minimum, at least the USA is trying to actively exterminate the plague of the Taliban while the rest Europe drinks their wine.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5439748 - 03/24/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Update:
Muslim clerics: Convert must die Religious leaders urge courts to ignore West, hang Christian
Friday, March 24, 2006; Posted: 12:24 a.m. EST (05:24 GMT)
Afghanistan (AP) -- Senior Muslim clerics are demanding that an Afghan man on trial for converting from Islam to Christianity be executed, warning that if the government caves in to Western pressure and frees him, they will incite people to "pull him into pieces."
In an unusual move, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned President Hamid Karzai on Thursday seeking a "favorable resolution" of the case of Abdul Rahman. The 41-year-old former medical aid worker faces the death penalty under Afghanistan's Islamic laws for becoming a Christian.
His trial has fired passions in this conservative Muslim nation and highlighted a conflict of values between Afghanistan and its Western backers.
"Rejecting Islam is insulting God. We will not allow God to be humiliated. This man must die," said cleric Abdul Raoulf, who is considered a moderate and was jailed three times for opposing the Taliban before the hard-line regime was ousted in 2001.
The trial, which began last week, has caused an international outcry. U.S. President George W. Bush has said he is "deeply troubled" by the case and expects Afghanistan to "honor the universal principle of freedom." (Watch how Rahman's case troubles the West -- 1:17)
Rice spokesman Sean McCormack said she told Karzai it is important for the Afghan people to know that freedom of religion is observed in their country.
Her direct appeal to a foreign leader in a judicial proceeding in their own country was unusual. But in deference to the country's sovereignty, Rice evidently did not demand specifically that the trial be halted and the defendant released.
"This is clearly an Afghan decision," McCormack said.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters she had received assurances from Karzai in a telephone call that Rahman would not be sentenced to death.
Diplomats have said the Afghan government is searching for a way to drop the case. On Wednesday, authorities said Rahman is suspected of being mentally ill and would undergo psychological examinations to see whether he is fit to stand trial.
But three Sunni preachers and a Shiite one interviewed by The Associated Press in four of Kabul's most popular mosques said they do not believe Rahman is insane.
"He is not crazy. He went in front of the media and confessed to being a Christian," said Hamidullah, chief cleric at Haji Yacob Mosque. "The government is scared of the international community. But the people will kill him if he is freed."
Raoulf, who is a member of the country's main Islamic organization, the Afghan Ulama Council, concurred. "The government is playing games. The people will not be fooled."
"Cut off his head!" he exclaimed, sitting in a courtyard outside Herati Mosque. "We will call on the people to pull him into pieces so there's nothing left."
He said the only way for Rahman to survive would be for him to go into exile.
But Said Mirhossain Nasri, the top cleric at Hossainia Mosque, one of the largest Shiite places of worship in Kabul, said Rahman must not be allowed to leave the country.
"If he is allowed to live in the West, then others will claim to be Christian so they can, too," he said. "We must set an example. ... He must be hanged."
The clerics said they were angry with the United States and other countries for pushing for Rahman's freedom.
"We are a small country and we welcome the help the outside world is giving us. But please don't interfere in this issue," Nasri said. "We are Muslims and these are our beliefs. This is much more important to us than all the aid the world has given us."
Afghanistan's constitution is based on Sharia law, which is interpreted by many Muslims to require that any Muslim who rejects Islam be sentenced to death.
Hamidullah warned that the government would lose the support of the people if it frees Rahman, and "there will be an uprising" like the one against Soviet occupying forces in the 1980s.
Human rights group Amnesty International said if Rahman has been detained solely for his religious beliefs, he would be a "prisoner of conscience" and that the charges should be dropped.
Rahman is believed to have lived in Germany for nine years after converting to Christianity while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. He returned to Kabul in 2002.
It was not immediately clear when Rahman's trial would resume. Authorities have barred attempts by the AP to see him and he is not believed to have a lawyer
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Alex213
Stranger
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5441150 - 03/25/06 01:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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At the bar minimum, at least the USA is trying to actively exterminate the plague of the Taliban
Nope. They're doing no such thing.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5441155 - 03/25/06 01:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Countries routinely ignore UN "rules and regulations".
Not in the area of drugs. And especially not when America is waving the big stick.
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5441355 - 03/25/06 03:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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"The chief judge and Afghan Supreme Court justice Ansarullah Mawlawizadah said that Rahman would be asked to reconsider his conversion: "We will invite him again because the religion of Islam is one of tolerance. We will ask him if he has changed his mind. If so we will forgive him." Judge Mawlawizadah further noted that "The Prophet Muhammad has said several times that those who convert from Islam should be killed if they refuse to come back" and that even while this is so, "Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance, kindness and integrity. That is why we have told [Rahman] if he regrets what he did, then we will forgive him" The judge added more ominously: "If [Abdul Rahman] does not repent, you will all be witness to the sort of punishment he will face."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rahman_%28convert%29

islam =
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