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OfflineSirTripAlot
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More stupidity from the Middle East
    #5433067 - 03/23/06 06:07 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

How tolerant that side of the globe is. You have the French and Dutch banning traditional Muslim garb for females; active participation by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan in blowing up historical artifacts in Afghanistan..........


Bush Troubled by Afghan Convert's Case
Mar 22 12:54 PM US/Eastern

By JENNIFER LOVEN
Associated Press Writer


WHEELING, W.Va.


President Bush said Wednesday that he is "deeply troubled" that an Afghan man is being tried for converting to Christianity.

Abdul Rahman, 41, faces a possible death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago. He has been charged with rejecting Islam, a crime under this country's Islamic laws. Bush said in a speech that a young democracy is growing in Afghanistan, but he's concerned about the case.



"We expect them to honor the universal principle of freedom," Bush said. "I'm troubled when I hear, deeply troubled when I hear, the fact that a person who converted away from Islam may be held to account. That's not the universal application of the values that I talked about. I look forward to working with the government of that country to make sure that people are protected in their capacity to worship."

Rahman's trial started last week, but a state prosecutor said Wednesday that he may be mentally unfit to stand trial. Moayuddin Baluch, a religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai, said Rahman would undergo a psychological examination and the case will be dropped if he's found mentally unfit.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5433116 - 03/23/06 06:45 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

> "We expect them to honor the universal principle of freedom," Bush said.

Any how many people are rotting in US jails because they used their universal principle of freedom to grow or injest a harmless plant... the double face of American politics shines through... do as I say, not as I do...


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Seuss]
    #5433370 - 03/23/06 08:57 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I spent a night in jail for possession of a controlled substance.
The judge gave me one year probation and  community service.

40 hours of community service sorting and re-shelving library books. (it sucked!) i even got a paper cut, oh the humanity....

I wonder if converted Christians  in the Middle East have to work in the library????????? :rolleyes:


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5433452 - 03/23/06 09:19 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

> I spent a night in jail for possession of a controlled substance.

A friend of the family is spending life in prison in the US for growing cannabis... he was sentenced during the Regan years and is still in prison to this day... for growing the same plant as Thomas Jefferson.

Even a night in jail and working in the library as a slave is insane for nothing more than having an 'illegal' substance in your possession. Where is that freedom we love so dearly, again?

I'm not trying to defend Islam, but rather I am trying point out that our so called freedom is mostly smoke and mirrors. Compared to the middle east, we have a TON more freedom than they do, but we are a long way from true freedom that responsible, mature adults, should have...


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Seuss]
    #5433474 - 03/23/06 09:25 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I am trying to point out HOW FAR BEHIND they are.

Even if you are a Bush hater or not, condemning someone to death for their religion is wrong, that is what Bush is saying.

Why are these people still stuck in the stone age?

Is it their own stupidity or is it America's fault?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5433505 - 03/23/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Even if you are a Bush hater or not, condemning someone to death for their religion is wrong, that is what Bush is saying.




Condeming somebody to life in prison, which to me is worse than death, because they grew a harmless plant is no different than condeming someone to death for their religion. Regardless of liking Bush or not, the US system is very biased. We like to pretend that we are mighty and moral, but the fact is that in some cases, we are no further ahead than the people we are putting down. This is a double standard that everybody wants to ignore... it is no wonder that the middle east extremists find it so easy to get their followers angry at us.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5433550 - 03/23/06 09:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Abdul Rahman, 41, faces a possible death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago. He has been charged with rejecting Islam, a crime under this country's Islamic laws.

why is so much of the muslim world stuck in the middle ages?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5434039 - 03/23/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

But...but...I thought we "liberated" Afghanistan. :confused:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Seuss]
    #5434931 - 03/23/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Quote:

Even if you are a Bush hater or not, condemning someone to death for their religion is wrong, that is what Bush is saying.




Condeming somebody to life in prison, which to me is worse than death, because they grew a harmless plant is no different than condeming someone to death for their religion. Regardless of liking Bush or not, the US system is very biased. We like to pretend that we are mighty and moral, but the fact is that in some cases, we are no further ahead than the people we are putting down. This is a double standard that everybody wants to ignore... it is no wonder that the middle east extremists find it so easy to get their followers angry at us.




Start your own thread instead of hijacking this one. They chop the heads off of dopers there.

Getting back on point, the Muslim leadership is a conglomeration of fearful fascists. When Muslim human beings manage to wrest control away from the whack jobs then and only then will they enter the 21st century. As long as they deify their mullahs they are doomed


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5435848 - 03/23/06 08:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Does the United States imprison people because of their religion?

NO.

Judging how one sided the United States is, solely from its drug policy is inaccurate and quite frankly, biased.

There are many things wrong with the United States, however, freedom of thought prevail here more then any were else!!!


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Seuss]
    #5435993 - 03/23/06 09:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Your drug war analogy is flawed. There is a difference between people being imprisoned for possessing a substance and somebody being executed for exercising their free will and engaging in a particular type of belief system. By the way, if you think the American drug war is bad go to Saudi Arabia where they will hack off your head if you are caught with a joint.

I try to be tolerant. I am quite willing to admit that the Muslims have a reason to be mad at America. I don't want any American troops to die, but at the same time I can understand the viewpoints of the various groups of the Iraqi insurgency. But, I just cannot fathom the absolute backwardness which rules a significant amount of the Muslim world. They are willing to put people to death for turning away from their religion? Granted, not all Muslims support this. But, there is a high enough percentage of Muslims that are absolute nutcases that it makes me immediately suspicious of Muslims and their religion.

I'm getting to the point that I think these people don't deserve our money, our help, our reconstruction efforts, or democracy. I say we let these people wallow in the dark ages where they belong. In my more irrational moods, I am almost tempted to support lobbing a few nukes at them just to get rid of them.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5436955 - 03/24/06 01:42 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Does the United States imprison people because of their religion?


What if your religion involves the use of entheogens?


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5436960 - 03/24/06 01:45 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Your drug war analogy is flawed. There is a difference between people being imprisoned for possessing a substance and somebody being executed for exercising their free will and engaging in a particular type of belief system. By the way, if you think the American drug war is bad go to Saudi Arabia where they will hack off your head if you are caught with a joint.


Then again the US is the main enforcer behind the worldwide drug war. If the US lightened up on persecuting people for the terrible crime of ingesting a plant I'm sure the situation would ease in many other countries.

They could certainly instruct their pals in the Saudi dictatorship to lighten up.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Alex213]
    #5437109 - 03/24/06 03:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I doubt that Saudi Arabia bases any of its drug laws upon U.S. desires. They will execute you for adultery over there....they obviously didn't get that one from America.

There is this common argument that drugs are illegal in the U.S., the U.S. is the world's only superpower, and therefore the U.S. has the power to affect drug policy throughout the globe. Most of the time when drugs are illegal and there are harsh penalties in other countries, this has nothing to do with the U.S.


Edited by RandalFlagg (03/24/06 03:51 AM)


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5437161 - 03/24/06 04:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

To be honest I thought pot was fairly well tolerated in some muslim countries.

The USA led crackdown on drugs in the twentieth century is by far the biggest contribution to prohibition tho. If the most powerful country in the world hadn't been so deranged on this I doubt the rest of the world would have bothered.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Alex213]
    #5437286 - 03/24/06 06:18 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Alex213 stated:
What if your religion involves the use of entheogens?


I do believe that the USA drug policy needs to be revamped in the form of decriminalizing drug offenses. However, Native
Americans can still use peyote

Look at this site. With the exception of a few States, you can procure just about anything. As long as you dont plan to sell, and are smart, you will remain under the radar screen.

In Saudi Arabia, if a you are caught drunk driving, they throw you, AND your entire family in prison.

Compared to this, how can America be viewed in the same bad light?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5437296 - 03/24/06 06:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Update:


WASHINGTON ? Concerned about the fate of a Christian convert in Afghanistan on trial for his life, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Thursday seeking a "favorable resolution" of the case.

"This is a very deeply concerning development in Afghanistan and we have raised it at the highest levels,? Rice said during a press conference with the Greek minister of foreign affairs. ?We look forward, hopefully, to a resolution to this in the very near future."

Abdul Rahman, 41, a medical aid worker, converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago, a fact that came out publicly during a civil custody case between him and his wife in front of local authorities. The authorities charged him with rejecting Islam, a crime under the country's Shar'ia-based law. The penalty, if guilty, is death.

Rice said religious freedom is the heart of democracy, a principle she hopes Afghanistan would uphold in its constitution in considering Rahman's case.

?We have raised it in the strongest possible terms to make clear that it is our great hope and desire that Afghanistan will reaffirm what is already in its constitution, that the universal declaration on human rights will be respected, and that this will be resolved in a way that is consistent with those principles," Rice said.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleRogues_Pierre
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5437324 - 03/24/06 06:48 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The problem is that a muslim can't become a non-muslim or he/she gets the death penalty under Sharia law. Muslim theocracies are trying to force the entire world to convert to Islam and have Sharia law in all countries. Sharia law is far less tolerant than laws in western countries including the USA. If the anti-Americans can't see that then they are helping the muslim terrorists take over the world.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5437985 - 03/24/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

do believe that the USA drug policy needs to be revamped in the form of decriminalizing drug offenses. However, Native
Americans can still use peyote



And if a white guy wants to use peyote in his religious beliefs?

With the exception of a few States, you can procure just about anything

You can get drugs in many muslim countries too. In fact in Morocco I've heard the cops don't bother arresting people for pot.

As long as you dont plan to sell, and are smart, you will remain under the radar screen.


Well you can avoid being caught in Saudi arabia with a bit of luck too. Just the same as here.

In Saudi Arabia, if a you are caught drunk driving, they throw you, AND your entire family in prison.


Saudi is probably the most extreme and vicous muslim dictatorshop tho. And as for being thrown in prison for drug offences - you can't really say America has too good a record on that.

how can America be viewed in the same bad light?

Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but the source, funding and power behind this medieval war on drugs has been America since the twenties. If Saudi Arabia had been behind spreading the drug war around the world where would it be? Fucking nowhere.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: More stupidity from the Middle East [Re: Alex213]
    #5438193 - 03/24/06 12:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
To be honest I thought pot was fairly well tolerated in some muslim countries.




Penalties for the import, manufacture, possession, and consumption of alcohol or illegal drugs are severe. Convicted offenders can expect jail sentences, fines, public flogging, and/or deportation. The penalty for drug trafficking in Saudi Arabia is death. Saudi officials make no exceptions.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1012.html

Quote:

Alex213 said:
The USA led crackdown on drugs in the twentieth century is by far the biggest contribution to prohibition tho. If the most powerful country in the world hadn't been so deranged on this I doubt the rest of the world would have bothered.




I call bullshit. While there have been instances of the U.S. government using aid or coercion with other governments when it came to drugs (Colombia for example) show me proof that all of the other countries that have crafted anti-drug legislation (about 99% of the nations of this world) did so because America did.


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