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OfflineJammer
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NEW PF TEK: How to alter the dna of mushrooms!
    #543302 - 02/07/02 05:13 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

The PF site has been updated. I found this VERY interesting -He has an updated report on his theory on what caused the PF strain to degrade. If what he is reporting is true, this could become a new tool in "creating" new strains. (well, sort of!)


Here is what the PF site has to say about it:

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DISASTER IN SAN DIEGO HARBOR LAGOONS

A couple of years ago, a newspaper article described an alien plant invasion into San Diego Harbor lagoons in California. The plant has displaced the normal flora, making for an environmental degradation. Scientists have discovered that it is a common aquatic fern that is popularly used in home fish tank aquariums. The plant has mutated because of exposure to excess ultra violet light emanating from the low wattage fluorescent (15 watts) ?plant & aquarium? lights. The lights are used in close proximity to the plants and the plants often float on the surface of the aquarium water making for a direct exposure. The plant escaped into the San Diego sewer system and wound up trapped and flourishing in the quiet inner lagoons of the harbor. They have taken over. UV (ultra violet) is well know in science to be a carcinogen and mutagen in plants and animals.

THE BLACK LIGHT EXPERIMENT

The disaster in San Diego harbor lagoons has a parallel with PF. Back in 2000, PF set up a phototropic experiment using 15 watt ?black light? fluorescent tubes. The fungus cakes were growing in the ?Rich Mans? terrariums. The lights were positioned almost touching the dome tops making the shrooms grow inches away from the lights. The lights were left on 24 hours a day. It is important to also mention that the plastic ?richmans? domes are made out of polycarbonate clear plastic. UV does pass through the plastic.

THE ALBINO MUTANT APPEARANCE

After a few months of fruiting under the blacklights, a couple of generations went by and then the now famous PF Albinos appeared on two cakes. At first, PF didn?t know what to make of them, but soon after, PF became worried, because Albinoism is a mutation, and mutations are a very bad sign genetically. PF then put away the blacklights knowing that the albinos and the blacklights are definitely connected in that they were synchronous. PF has never seen such a thing in over a quarter of a century of shrooming, plus, PF has never used blacklights - only plant type flourescents. PF remained worried.
The genetic mutation certainly occurred at the genesis of the spores, because the mutation changed the offspring that followed. The genes were damaged permanently and passed to the progeny. There were many cakes that seemed unaffected, so the two types; the Albino mutant spores and the ?normal? spore race lines were separated. But unbeknownst to PF, invisible or unapparant damage did occur to the ?normal? specimens.

The damage slowly crept into the spore race lines and by mid summer of 2001, PF had the sinking feeling of empending doom. The Hawaiian and Mazatec spore races were growing on the same PF formulations and in the same terrariums, but were doing great, with the customary excellent fruitings, but the PF which fruits at least equally as well, was doing frighteningly bad with no invitro primordiation, sparse fruitings, strange looking shrooms, off colors and a tendency for sterility (no spores or few forming). And in the worst case, no fruiting at all, even though the mycelium looked healthy. This degradation happened very gradually, over a period of several months. What happened, was that after the albino appearance and the cessation of blacklight use, PF continued to use PF spore race lines emanating from UV (blacklight) exposed specimens. Soon, all the PF spores PF was getting, were descended from the exposed and apparently damaged PF shrooms from the blacklight growing time. Or, the genetically damaged lines spread and gradually became dominant, taking over the PF race lines through spore mixing and spore solution making (PF?s lab work).

PF knew exactly what to do - the obvious. PF then contacted a friend and got an old PF spore print from three years ago (not exposed to blacklight fluorescents) plus a fresh print that was propagated elsewhere. They were used with PF jars, and within two months, the proof was there. The ?old? spores and the replacement spores were fruiting with total excellence - lightning fast invitro appearing and big healthy (normal) flushes. Then with the proof in hand, PF announced the replacement order policy with confidence in the PF spore race as being still one of the best there is because of its excellent PF style invitro appearance, its slow to mature growth and capacity for large meaty specimens.

So there is an answer and salvation. Unlike many other problems of living, a good outcome to a total disaster (the death of the PF spore race) is a rare and wonderful event (the return of the PF spore race). Plus, with this knowledge, anyone can become like Dr. Fungustein, and create their own PF albino mutants and God knows what else by duplicating PF?s blacklight exposure experiments.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The link: http://www.fanaticus.com/mutant.htm

Wow! Man I can really see someone useing a black light purposely to alter strains now.


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>>Jammer>>


Edited by Jammer (02/09/02 12:48 AM)


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: Jammer]
    #543307 - 02/07/02 05:24 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

that's very interesting!  good thing pf salvaged their race... i wonder if you can case 'em now without gettin' all that mass pinning.  but something concerns me, how seriously can UV light mutate plants and animals (i'm talkin the little flourescent fixtures for home/party use).  hehe, now i'm afraid to turn mine on :tongue:
 


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··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


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OfflineCynicalMagician
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: Jammer]
    #543311 - 02/07/02 05:31 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

no wonder ravers are so fucking stupid =p


i mean

plur :wink: 


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"Order some golf shoes," I whispered. "Otherwise, we'll never get out of this place alive. You notice these lizards don't have any trouble moving around in this muck - that's because they have ~claws~ on their feet."


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: Jammer]
    #543322 - 02/07/02 06:08 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for sharing that Jammer !


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Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Offlinearkendave
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: Roadkill]
    #543333 - 02/07/02 06:43 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

who'd of thunk. i wonder about the potency of those albino's. and whether or not beneficial matations could occur from uv expoxure. and what other kinds of exposures could cause mutation. Don't think I'll try it just yet though, I have yet to grow normal shrooms.


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"there's only one, but there's really two............"


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OfflineJammer
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: arkendave]
    #543935 - 02/07/02 06:18 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I have found albinos to not be as strong as the normal strains. As far as UV expirements go, I have seen some awesome bud grown with the help of mecury vapor bulbs (very high in UV radiation - use strong eye protection at all times). The UV radiation is reported to make weed produce more thc. Experiments prove that this is true.

The only diference seems to be that, so far, UV tests on shrooms seem to show mutations that are not as strong as previous. Also it's very ineresting to me that uv radiation effects the genectics of shrooms, but aparently does not effect the dna of weed.

Opinions?


--------------------
>>Jammer>>


Edited by Jammer (02/08/02 06:32 AM)


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Offlinefresh357
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: Jammer]
    #543954 - 02/07/02 06:37 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I doubt that the UV had much to do with it. The strain was probably destined for mutation for quite some time, as the gene pool shrank.

How long has Pf been using that strain? Ages. I think the problem has to do with the ever shrinking genetic diversity that Pf encouraged with his practices.


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Offlinesillvyr
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: fresh357]
    #543966 - 02/07/02 06:49 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

fresh357, I have to agree with you.
We must also remember that genetics are nature's Will. Wild mushrooms would be expected to receive a certain amount of UV exposure from natural sunlight, and therefore able to spontaneously mutate. Some tends toward albanism (albino throwback syndrome) are not necessarily bad, "Treasure Coast" strain can turn up albino stock that are just as functional as normal pigmentation. Man's attempting to force nature, sadly is not always fruitful, though, and it's too bad that PF learned the hard way. I'm glad they could recover their stock.
Lesson is, let Nature select the genes for us, she knows best.


--------------------
The "Little Mushrooms" are but emisaries to the Overmind.....



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InvisibleMeetMeInEleusis
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Registered: 11/03/01
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS *DELETED* [Re: sillvyr]
    #543993 - 02/07/02 07:06 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by MeetMeInEleusis

Reason for deletion: ..



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OfflineJammer
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: fresh357]
    #544079 - 02/07/02 08:24 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I think that you may very well be right. However 'shrooms do respond to light, at least a little. I think that the shrinking gene pool over the years is more likely to of caused this mutation, but that there still *might* be something to this UV light theory.


--------------------
>>Jammer>>


Edited by Jammer (02/07/02 08:48 PM)


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Offlinefresh357
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: Jammer]
    #544942 - 02/08/02 04:10 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

an interesting experiment might be to expose genetically healthy strains to UV and see what happens. I bet they wouldnt destabilize *as much* as PFs did. Sort of an accident waiting to happen IMO.


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OfflineJammer
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: fresh357]
    #545356 - 02/09/02 12:43 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Where is Anno when ya need him?

haha

(he is the dude for such an experiment!!)


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>>Jammer>>


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: geokills]
    #545377 - 02/09/02 01:13 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I wouldn't worry about black lights affecting you. Party black lights (if I remember corectly) are designed to only output a certain type of UV light: the type that does not cause genetic damage (or at the least does not cause much).

Also, I'm not sure if this is what is being suggested but I don't think using UV radiation to mutate mushrooms is going to get anyone very far. The mutations produced would be entirely random, not something like "I'll put them under UV...and mutate them into a super strain!". You are probably just as likely to create a mutant that will produce something toxic as you are to produce a mutant that is stronger.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineJammer
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: trendal]
    #546240 - 02/10/02 01:42 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Thats a very good point about the posibility of creating a toxic 'shroom by useing UV lights.

As far as black lights being safe, I must admit that I'm a little confused as to how it's posibile to have a UV light that is safe. Yes, I understand that people party with black lights everday, but I have never fealt totaly safe near them. I have a friend or two that has suffered UV ray damage to there eyes due to tanning bulbs and no eye protection. What they describe should scare anyone from ever getting near a bulb that radiates uv rays. With bulbs it's possible to get A LOT more uv radiation that one could ever get from the natural sun. Are black lights useing a safer spectrum of ultra violet rays or are they simply emiting a safer amount of them?

Just curious.


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>>Jammer>>


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OfflineDinoMyc
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Re: NEW PF TEK: How to alter the dna of mushrooms! [Re: Jammer]
    #546468 - 02/10/02 11:08 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

look at pics of PF from a few years back.. they had the classic look of a degenerate strain.. being grown on the "PF" substrate doesnt help either.. very little diversity in what its feeding off of..


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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.


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OfflineJammer
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Re: NEW PF TEK: How to alter the dna of mushrooms! [Re: DinoMyc]
    #547316 - 02/11/02 02:24 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I have seen what happens when weed growers keep cloning from one large mother plant. Over time the mother plant can catch a plant disease and that will be passed on to the clones. The only way to advoid it is to have a large selection of mother plants to clone from. (it can be a genetic mutation due to a disease that is passed to any seeds as well) So it makes sence that the shrinking gene pool of PF's strain of shrooms would, sooner or later, result in what happen.

I am real curious as to what really happen with PF's strain. Does anyone with a digital camera care to try a black light experiment?


--------------------
>>Jammer>>


Edited by Jammer (02/11/02 09:30 AM)


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OfflineCuckoosNest
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: MeetMeInEleusis]
    #547581 - 02/11/02 08:58 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

I used a PF syringe that i recieved over the summer and yielded over 4 oz. dried from 20 pint cakes (BRF/verm). I must have been lucky to get such a fruitful syringe. I also remember when i ordered one of the albino syringes and saw no albino mushrooms grow.


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"...Three geese in a flock. One flew east, And one flew west, And one flew over the cuckoo's nest."
Ken Kesey


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OfflineNeonBlack
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Re: NEW PF TEK: How to alter the dna of mushrooms! [Re: Jammer]
    #547866 - 02/11/02 02:19 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Just wanted to add one thing.. All black lights are not equal. Those that you see at parties and such are not the same as those that one would use to cause mutation. The ones you see at parties are pretty safe. Check this place.. http://www.minresco.com/uvp/handlamp.htm Those are the ones that are dangerous. If you looked into one of those, your eyes would get a sunburn and that would not be a pleasant feeling. So, don't everyone go putting a blacklight from the mall in your terrarium.. It won't do you any good. If you do use a real blacklight, be sure to wear eye protection. Plus, I think that if you really wanted to cause a mutation, you would use uv light in relatively short bursts on germinating mycelia inside of a petri dish.. Then you could isolate a strain and fruit that.. Anyway, you're more likely to end up with a retarded strain deficient in something or other than a superstrain.. But then there's always a chance that you could come up with something interesting.


Edited by NeonBlack (02/11/02 02:21 PM)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: Jammer]
    #547921 - 02/11/02 03:24 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

The "party" black lights that people use do emit a safer spectrum of UV radiation (UV-A, I think).


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: trendal]
    #548006 - 02/11/02 04:24 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

This gets me thinking, has anyone ever tried using colchicine on cubes to try and produce a "double" super shroom? Someone should.


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---------------------------------------------------
hmmm........


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InvisibleAzulAgave
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #548510 - 02/12/02 02:39 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

At what point would you introduce the colchicine to the growing process? Would it be at the spore level, mycelium level, or the fruit level? Colchicine is probably too carcinogenic for spores. And besides crushing crocus bulbs to get the stuff is a pain. And finding it processed for sale is expensive and difficult.


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
long standing member;)

Registered: 07/27/00
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: AzulAgave]
    #548934 - 02/12/02 02:44 PM (19 years, 7 months ago)

To be honest I can't even remember when to introduce it to produce "double" plants.:blush: Just tossing ideas around in the hope that someone who actually knows what he's talking about might pick up on it.;) 


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hmmm........


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InvisibleAzulAgave
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Re: NEW PF TEK: HOW TO ALTER THE DNA OF MUSHROOMS [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #549549 - 02/13/02 01:48 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

Dude I totally follow ya. I wish I had more time and resources to follow up on some of my mind storms. In the mean time I need to get some quality reading material. Anyone out there have any literature they want to dispose of? I'll be more than happy to be the benefactor of anyones old books.


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OfflineJammer
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Re: NEW PF TEK: How to alter the dna of mushrooms! [Re: NeonBlack]
    #556953 - 02/20/02 01:56 AM (19 years, 7 months ago)

' wonder what a little radiation might do to 'shrooms?


--------------------
>>Jammer>>


Edited by Jammer (02/20/02 07:20 AM)


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