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OfflineAsanteA
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EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's * 4
    #542674 - 02/06/02 05:35 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Hi Everybody: here's my first post, this one dealing with PSYCHEDELICS & BENZOS. You probably think: what's so important? Well: hang on!

Let's first get familliar with the major players of this piece...

PSYCHEDELICS: Now, that's basically Da Good Stuf such as Lysergide (LSD) but I mean Psilocybin in particular. Anyone bored yet?
BENZODIAZEPINES: These are a family of "Minor Tranquilizers" who all share the same sedative effect when given in equivalent dosages you can calculate using info from the Internet. To name the major players & their equivalence:

1mg Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) = 10mg Diazepam (Valium) = 20mg Oxazepam

Now I hear you yawning without even having taken one of those! Since I'd like you to bear with me I'll come to business right away!

Benzo's inhibit the effects of Major Psychedelics (Like Lysergide, but not THC) to an extent determined by dose. They do this so effectively that they are the #1 treatment against Bad Trips in European Emergency Medicine. They're so superior in this over Antipsychotics like Haloperidol that the latter's never given there.
(Which is PROOF that Psychedelic states in general ARE NOT Psychotic states!)
But besides stopping Trips off like nothing you've ever experiened there's another use for the combination, one that'll make quite some waves over here at the shroomery, for most trippers I can think of are bound to get very interested...

If you combine a certain dose of Mushrooms with a certain small dose of any Benzo, a Trip ensues which I have named: "BenzoTrip" or "Shielded Trip". This combination has it's pros & cons but will be just right for a lot of us.

When you take this Dual Combi, you're bound for a Trip...
But in coming up you'll find that you're not only very much at peace, but that most of those nasty somatics (body effects) are far less too. (if you had 'em..) And then... You're Tripping!
You'll notice you'll be calmer & more centered, which for most people means they can go much deeper into thought-patterns & the rich visuals that accompany them in most users. It's really way, WAY different & friendlier, which allows deeper immersion, and it's at least as muh fun as tripping straight. I found that a BenzoTrip not only can greatly boost your Personal/Spiritual growth: you're likely to wind up having a UNIFORMLY FUN TRIP, which would appeal to most people who'se postings I've seen here. It's a bit like 2CB but in a very Psilo kind of way...
The price to pay is the following: The "Miraculous Events" (U know?) occur less frequently which is to be expected since the entities described as GOD/DEVIL (or FANTASTIC/HORRIBLE) are two sides of one coin.

So what's the magic combination? This varies from person to person & you'll have to figure that one out yourself. I can however provide you with hints as to what could work for you, based on fearless self-experimentation.
Let's start with your mushroom. If you're into Psilocybe Cubensis you can roughly say that very good dried Cubes has ~12mg Psilocybin to a gram, while Cubes of average potency hang around 6mg/gram. (Based on good Dutch research) If both are taken together, these were the results from multiple self-experiments:

Psilocybin 10-20mg + 10mg Valium equiv. nearly completely PREVENTED the trip from happening. I was in a strange & way too mild "twilight zone" & Bonged up.

Psilocybin 10-15mg + 1.25-2.5mg Valium equiv. was just right: BENZOTRIP.

When I combined 30mg Psilocybin (a Whoopsie for me!) with 20mg Valium equiv. it came down hard on the trip but I retched & puked which was clearly Benzo.

If one were to double both amounts needed for a BenzoTrip (several times) you'd still be shielded to some extent but it'll be WAY stronger too. So don't decide you can now finally go macho on Shrooms 'cause thats ALWAYS a stupid thing to do.
Remember: "Less is More!"

After some heavy & uniformly pleasant experimenting (which yielded several MAJOR insights which a high dose easily could wash away by sheer overload)
I decided I really liked BenzoTrippin' but would absolutely not abandon unshielded Tripping, since I kind of missed the Miracles and even some of the scary shit.

When you'd like to initiate some-one but'd hate to send him/her off to the glorious depths of Hellraiser-Country... When you decide to trip somewhere else for a change & want to prevent possibly getting paranoid to the point of being truely fucked up... If you'd want to give Psilo-inspired Meditation for Personal Growth or really think something through & want to prevent Angels & Demons swarming all over the place... Ifyou're in the mood for a really nice trip with the guys & just want to laugh the hours away for old time's sake... Or if you just love experimenting, get familliar with the territory & are yearning for a "New" Trip...
You'd really should give this Combi a go !!!

Remember: Benzo's are slightly toxic and regular use likely leads to tolerance and dependence with possibly SEVERE WITHDRAWAL.
How to get 'em? Roofies abound in the US !
If you'd rather not go to a dealer I suggest you'd really ponder that question... Ponder, ponder & ponder it till Insomnia ensues & then visit your doc for it !!!


TAKE CARE OF YOUR BRAINS PEOPLE !!!



Well: That's It. If you have info to share on this combination, like to pat me on the back or scold me or whatever's relevant to this post: Follow up on it!
You'd might want to give



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OfflineKremlin
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #542705 - 02/06/02 06:02 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

thats definately an interesting thought, where did you find this info out? Do you have any links to some info on it?

Sounds like what a hippy flip (E + shrooms) is supposed to be like, ive never done that, but ive heard the E removes alot of the anxiety on coming up and makes it alot easier to handle.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Kremlin]
    #542793 - 02/06/02 07:35 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

...Where did I find it out? Well: one of my hobbies (and I stress: hobbies) happens to be Pharmacology & Psychopharmacology in particular. Ofcourse Psychedelics are naturally highly interesting if one has ever truely Tripped. In short: lots & lots of reading, thinking & conneted the dots. I can't begin to tell you where all info came from. But rest assured: there's not only theory behind it: it has proven itself in myself & several friends. It's no Urban Legend!

Your "Hippy-flip" (MDMA or MDEA + Mushrooms) seems also called: MX-Missile.
I've never done that.
What me and X did do was take 3x 1/2 tab MDEA(~210mg), followed by 3x Mushrooms (total about 50mg Psilocybin) and after a walk at 7:00 AM we took these 3 microdots of LSD (~300mg) in about 2 hours time.
This whole event lasted 36 hours straight.

Just a stupid macho showing off?
Nay! I say this to illustrate my point: Normally the sum of these doses is quite enough to last me a year. Why did we take so much? Well: the experience was really different than usually. There was less work to do Psychologically, yet it was in one word Divine. It seems that the MDEA did the work before the trips: I'd rather have 3+5=8h of MDEA + Psilo then 5hrs of both at once, I think...

On all those high doses I read everywhere: It must be Immense to ride them 12 grams of Cubensis like some of those guys here, but if I attempted that I'd seriously doubt it would do me any good, if not plunge me into trouble. Nothanx!


SHULGIN SEZ 20mg PSILOCYBIN IS QUITE ENOUGH...


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #555991 - 02/19/02 06:45 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

IMPORTANT ADDITION:

You can roughly divide "Triptrouble" into 2 categories: Those caused by the stresses of the experience (the usual stuff) and the rarer problems that are basically caused by your brain trying to resolve inner conflicts & such. Examples:
Fearing you'll go insane usually is one of the former, while actually experiencing (psychological) Death/Birth/Egodeath & such are generally of the latter sort.

Both can give you a very difficult Trip, but only the latter has inherent Growth & Healing potential.
What's this got to do with a BenzoTrip?
Well: The first (shallow) category can be very much reduced or completely wiped out by the dose of Benzo thats right for you & the amount of Psilo you took. The second (Deep) category of difficulties isn't inhibited by Benzos at all, but the stress of going through them is generally reduced.
So: a BenzoTrip is generally much more friendly than a regular one, but retains virtually all of its Higher potential.

Please people: I'm YEARNING for feedback on this...!!!


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OfflineSplat
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #555998 - 02/19/02 07:07 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Im yearning to find out if this is true....

I rarely admit it, but I have had just a couple too many bad mushroom experiences for me to eagerly look forward to doing them again.. I am going to try this technique to see if perhaps I can calm my mind... something I have had trouble with in the past on high doeses of psylocybin. I will let you know what I find...

Also...Did u find many side affects such as a high decrease in energy, or anything of that sort?


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You know what I always say....anything worth doing.... mmm....is worth overdoing!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Splat]
    #556066 - 02/19/02 10:14 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

If you eating shrooms to help search for answers as opposed to taking them just for the fun of tripping, my friend often finds lower doses much more constructive than high doses.



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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Splat]
    #556090 - 02/19/02 11:03 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

HI SPLAT!

Allthough there are differences in the mg/mg ratios one needs to get the optimum fx, most of my friends were in the stated range.
Since you'd have to take into account not only your personal sensitivity towards Psilocybin/Lysergide, but also of the particular Benzo you decide to take, you'd have to progress with caution. If you intend to add, say, the equiv. of 5mg Valium, FIRST TAKE THIS DOSE WITHOUT PSYCHEDELIX TO CHECK YOUR RESPONSE!!!

So: traumatized by the Shroom, 'eh? I really recommend you back off your dosage, since it may likely be too intense for you. Remember: Shroomery People are the ELITE: their dose average does not even COMPARE to what most people can stand. A tip: 1-3gr Cubies or 1-2gr of Liberty Caps is a good range. Shrooms back here in Holland are sold to contain 15mg PSB a portion. Shulgin (of Pihkal & Tihkal fame) doesn't reccommend doses above 20mg PSB, a dose Stamets laims to be "manageable for most". DO NOT LISTEN to the hidose guys: you're likely to be more sensitive, so quit taking Macho doses hoping to get more out of it. If even that's too much: Lower it again. Some need 10x less than some others!!!
My own findings: High doses give you like 1.000 insights a second whilst in the midst of a Mental Tornado, while low doses are generally more calm in both ways.
Do you really think 1.000 Insights/sec can be RETAINED, or do you figure like me that most'll be swept away by the onslaught?
Thus: GIVE LOW DOSES A GOOD CHANCE !!!

The amounts recommended are likely to contain 10-20mg PSB, Do The Math!!!
As for side fx: All I know agree that the rite dose-ratio greatly reduces mind/body stress of PSB/LSD while the Benzo (in modest doses) doesn't add significant side fx. The total picture that'll likely form is you tripping hard whilst being more calm, relaxed & centered than ever.

I'd really love your feedback man!! Just like to help...


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OfflineSplat
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #556724 - 02/19/02 10:13 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Hmm...

Good advise.... I will let you know how my results turn out...


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OfflineSplat
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Splat]
    #559320 - 02/22/02 04:53 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Hmmm....



temazepam would not qualify as benzo would it?


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Splat]
    #559371 - 02/22/02 08:12 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

HI SPLAT!

Temazepam not a Benzo?
SURE IT IS !!!
Temazepam is a "classical" Benzo usually prescribed for Insomnia. It's potency (dove into my files) is the same as that of Oxazepam, meaning that 20mg of it equals 10mg of Diazepam (=Valium).
If you follow my shroom-suggestion & end up between 10-20mg of Psilocybin, a dose of 5mg Temazepam may be just rite for you.
But then again: it may either be too hi or too lo for you. If you use Tem every day, it may easily be too little, because a Tolerance develops for Benzos meaning you need more over time to get the same effect. (please don't go over 20mg of Tem...)

Don't think that when you've found the rite dose you can avoid difficult experiences, because you can't: The most difficult ("Deep") stuff will come through anyway, as it should, so please don't think a BenzoTrip's an amusement-park ride. It'll just be generally easier, less stressful, simpler to accept & assimilate, but note I say GENERALLY. If you really think you're not up to dealing with the Deep, Painful stuff (95+% of Trippers aren't up to it) I suggest you keep your doses well below 20mg of Psilocybin equiv. since below that mark you can surely get into trouble too, but it's ALOT less likely to be the REALLY deep stuff, the kind that may give rise to Post-Trip troubles if dealt with wrongly.
If you're only into fun, you'd better avoid Tripping altogether, because even a BenzoTrip is DUAL in nature.
But: a series of BenzoTrips might well restore your confidence in Yourself & the Mushroom.

YET ANOTHER WARNING: Benzos can really F#CK UP YOUR LIFE if you use them for kicks or even in the daily dose your doc prescribes it. My recommendation is to not exceed the equiv. of 1x 10mg Valium a week. The kick's not worth it anyway:
a big drink containing 50ml of Alcohol is usually more fun than even the equivalent of 1-2 big Roofies & outlasts it too. Remember: BENZO = RISK.



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OfflineSplat
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #560227 - 02/22/02 11:47 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Good deal..

thanks for the info... I am really sick right now.. but when I get better I will give it a try... I have a Temazepam hookup... so I will let you kno how that goes... Till then.... Peas


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #560262 - 02/23/02 12:27 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I've found that using valerian root extract in my mushroom tea works along the same lines as what you are describing. It doesn't really diminish the trip but it does help to relieve the tension and nervousness associated with intentionally exploring ones own head.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #560395 - 02/23/02 04:34 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I've done alot of the Benzo+shroom thing...I loved it....
Until I tried GHB+Shrooms...:)
It's much better IMO....The GHB and shrooms work together like magic..
I take a light dose before I eat the shrooms....Then as needed throughout the trip...It really lets you relax and take in everything you see and feel with such euphoria.....At the peak I'm completely in Awe.
This combo does not cancel each other out at all, it is by far my favorite drug combo ever!
My next experiment will be AMT + Valium...in hopes of taking the buzzy-speedy-icky edge off the AMT....
I'll keep you posted!


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: badjessejames]
    #560502 - 02/23/02 10:50 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Red1: Thanx: I'll give that a go... Valerian (Heliotrope) Root tea really is soothing stuff and IMO works better than any extract I've tried. (1/2-3tsp/cup) But the Big Thing of Shroom/LSD + Benzo is that these Psychedelix work mostly in the Limbic system o/t brain, which is governed by the inhibiting neurotransmitter GABA, which happens to be the in vivo precursor & amino analogue of GHB, and that the Benzos activate just that GABA.

So BadJesseJames:
I have no doubt that your Shroom-GHB combi can be very great !!! I'd love to try it if I weren't sceptical of GHB. You see: if you get your dose slightly wrong you'll be underimpressed or even overbombed+sick+unconscious. The GHB metabolizes into Succinic Acid, which really isn't a bad thing. But if that Succinic Acid subsequently metabolizes to Oxalic Acid (as i think it will) you're really into Deep Shit, even it is just a few % of your dose. This may lead to Oxalic Acid xtls forming in your kidneys, gradually building up to the point of decreased functioning of named organs. Will this Oxalic transformation happen in relevant amounts? We'll probably know in a decade or so, since the accumulation may be very gradual or only occur to an insignificant extent.
Add to this my suspicion of GHB's precursor GBL being slightly carcinogenic & you'll understand why I'm not convinced taking GHB is a good idea...
(But hey: they're just suspicions: I may be dead wrong here)

If I may ask: What dose of GHB + how much Shrooms works best for you? What's the main difference compared to "Straight" or Benzo-Tripping? What appeal did BenzoTripping have? What were the dose-ratios or ANYTHING RELEVANT of your BenzoTrips? I'm REALLY curious, BJJ!!!
Oh yeah: AMT + Benzo... It'll likely be less speedy but beware that AMT is more dangerous than Psilocybin & such: Be careful with dosing!
I think that N,N-Dimethyl-AMT will likely be one of the most SUPER Psychedelix there can possibly be, maybe much better as any Psychedelic we know. But how to slap those 2 Methyls on without a lab? Straight AMT (being amphetamine-like) I'll never try (really HATE Speedlike thingies), but I can understand its appeal!


Oh yeah, BTW: Vitamin B3 comes as Nicotinic Acid (avoid!) and Nicotinic Acid Amide (=Niacinamide) NAA works about in the same way as Benzos do, but much less strongly so. Ingesting about 300-700mg of it will give rise to a slightly tranquilized state in just MINUTES that feels really Benzo. It has yet to be tested with Shrooms, but I think it can probably take a little of the edge off a difficult experience & acts really quick. Experience with this, anybody?


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Offlinebadjessejames
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #561157 - 02/24/02 02:00 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

THe reason I tried the Benzo-trip in the first place was I have a high anxiety level .....but I love to trip.
Naturally..the anxiety level increased when I would trip so I tried to find the cure.
I would usually take 10mg Valium....and about 30-45 minutes later take an average of 3 grams of cubies...This worked and I still like to do this....but I have found that Benzos tend to lose thier magic after time.....After using valium for less than a week I feel less effects from the same dose.
A light dose of GHB 3 times a day is perfect for anxiety.... and as far as being "underimpressed or even overbombed+sick+unconscious" It does take awhile to find the dose that is right for you... no different than benzos.
Last... You might be right with your suspicions.. as far as BDO & GBL go, but there has been 30+ years of research on GHB... I doubt in 10 more years people will start falling over from Oxalic Acid xtls forming in thier kidneys.......can you back your suspicions upwith data.
TAKEN FROM: http://www.ceri.com/feature.htm
For the thirty years prior to 1990, the scientific papers on GHB were unanimous in reporting numerous beneficial physiological effects and the absence of long-term negative effects. In 1964, Laborit listed ?very low toxicity? as one of the ?principle elements? of the compound?s pharmacology. In a 1969 report on GHB?s anesthetic uses, Vickers referred to GHB as ?a truly nontoxic hypnotic? and repeatedly emphasized its ?lack of toxicity.? Vickers cited evidence that GHB demonstrates ?no toxic effects on the liver and kidney.?




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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: badjessejames]
    #561297 - 02/24/02 07:27 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Gee, BJJ:

That's alot of Valium to take with 3gr of Cubies... Were they strong or average quality? (usually the strong is 2x more potent in Psilocybin) I myself have seen the equiv. of 10mg Valium completely wipe out several Trips of 3gr "average" Cubies when taken together... Guess your dose was around 30-40mg PSB...

Daily use kills Benzos real quick, I agree... But I think 3x GHB a day really isn't that good an idea... Considering GHB's pharmacological profile this might addict you.
Is there stong tolerance going on?

About the Oxalic Acid thingie...
Primary alcohols generally are metabolized via the (always Carcinogenic) Aldehyde into the corresponding Carboxylic Acid. Carboxylic acids are generally oxidised in 2-Carbon jumps ideally resulting in CO2 + H2O. If I get my Toxicology right these 2 mechanisms will yield the metabolically "untouchable" Oxalic Acid as an end product. No hard specific data; just a strong suspicion.

As far as I know GHB's clinical application centered for the main part around it being a reasonably safe Anaesthetic for short-duration surgery. The only longterm administration I know of that looked well-researched was giving it to alcoholics, usually dosed under 10% of a recreational dose. Note that this likely means OA is likely <1/10 then too.
You might think I'm overcautious. But I'd say: After Thalidomide, after DES... Can one really be TOO careful about what one ingests? Another thing: Years ago 2 friends & me split a single large dose of GHB. We felt very little central effects, but all 3 agreed it gave a real "unhealthy" body feeling. Not quite nausea, generally a little but real "ill" kind of feeling... It didn't agree with us.

One more thing on GHB: 4-hydroxy-n-butyric acid naturally occurs in cell tissue and probably is essential. But if one ingests, say, 2gr of its sodiumsalt the concentrations take a big jump upwards, one that's "unnatural". Now all Psychotropics do this, but please remember anaesthetics are the HEAVIEST class of pharmaceuticals that's in regular use. If a syringefull of Heroin would do the trick that anaesthetics do, hammering folks with H would be standard practice as a means of anesthetizing. In fact: In putting big animals out the regular choice of drugs is opioids over anaesthetics. (stuff like Carfentanyl & Etorphine)
If I have to have surgery performed on me & local anaesthesia is an option, I'd rather hear them hammering & sawing away on my bones than to be put under Nitrous oxide for like an hour or two.
But hey: that's personal...

When you BenzoTripped: Did you find some aspects of the PSB-experience less pronounced than the rest? Is this different from GHB? What's the very best & very worst of a Benzo/GHB-Trip as compared to just shrooms? I really like to know...



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Offlinebadjessejames
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #561940 - 02/24/02 10:58 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

The reason I like the GHB addition to shrooms rather than the benzos is the synergy just FEELS better...the body buzz..euphoria..etc..
It's just my opinion that benzos seem to take away from the trip. The benzos had me feeling kind of lethargic throughout the trip.....maybe next time I'll half the amount of diazepam.


"In putting big animals out the regular choice of drugs is opioids over anaesthetics."
What kind of animals...elephants? Ketamine is the most used anesthetic in horses,etc..

Taken from: http://www.anestesia.com.mx/articulo/keta.html
The group commented that anesthesia in the horse poses unique dangers to both handlers and the horse; that ketamine has proven to be the safest induction agent known and remains an important medication to the equine practitioner;


"If a syringefull of Heroin would do the trick that anaesthetics do, hammering folks with H would be standard practice as a means of anesthetizing.
This is not a well thought out statement.....especially if your trying to compare the side effects of heroin to GHB...



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goofing off together, but it turns out everybody else went and got rich
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Asante]
    #562113 - 02/25/02 03:30 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

hmm, interesting. Do you know if there's a cross tolerance between benzos and alcohol?


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #563063 - 02/25/02 11:01 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

No, there is no cross tolerance to benzo's and alcohol. I've been doing the benzo/shroom mix for 2 years now...works great, just don't take Xanax bars (the footballs are cool) or they will cancel your trip out.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: badjessejames]
    #563429 - 02/26/02 06:51 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

About crosstolerance between alc. + Benzos: Nope: 2 different mechanisms. Benzos work through GABA while Alc causes, among other things, the release of an anaesthetic Steroid.

BJJ: Horses, like (big) Cats, don't get opioids because it acts in them as a Stimulant. In several racehorses opioids were found as a means of making 'em run faster...

About that H-injection.. Well: wasn't clear enough...
The first open-heart surgery was performed by some SA doctor. It could only be performed because Carfentanyl became available, which is safer than most narcotics & anaesthetics alike. The race for a low-tox opioid is still on, and if a superior one is found nitrous, ket & all that other stuff would go out of the window. What I meant was: Ofcourse H isn't up to the challange... But the "anaesthetic o/t future" will likely be an opioid analogue.
All current ways of anaesthesia have a chance of killing the patient that usually falls between 1/5.000-1/100.000. I've read the statement that some scientists believe some new opioid may likely decimate this likelyness...
But if I had the choice of being put under by the somewhat unreliable GHB or the toxic H, I would without a doubt choose for GHB.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #567520 - 03/02/02 05:04 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Very interesting Wicca--- Have you ever tried alprazolam (xanax) with about 2grams of cubensis? I am thinking about this combo and using the shrooms to make tea. What would the appropriate xanax dosage be to keep me awake, but nice and calm? About .25mg or.5? Should I wait to drink the tea until about an hour after taking the xanax?

--peace--


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: vermiculite]
    #567823 - 03/02/02 04:38 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Vermic!

Alprazolam... From Memory I'd say Xanax 0.25mg = 10mg Valium.
2gr Cubies average 12mg usually or 25mg if they're Super.

If you're averagely sensitive to both & assuming your Cubies are strong I'd say go for 0.125mg Xanax. If the shroomies ain't the Xa may be too strong then...
Please post your findings in brief rite here...


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: vermiculite]
    #568181 - 03/03/02 02:22 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Is Clonazepam (blue/geen) tablet safe for mixing with psilo-*? I love your posts Wiccan, very informative, good luck with your experiemnts, are they any benzos i can buy over the counter"?



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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #569732 - 03/04/02 05:22 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I'm very wary of combining substances to make my experiences "easier" or more "pleasant". I'm curious why you do this. Personally, I don't understand what any of you are talking about when you describe a trip as being "bad". As far as mushrooms go, I welcome whatever revelations they present me with because they always feel honest and truthful despite how frightening they are. I think that the downs are necessary to feel the ups. There must be a balance. If something about your experience is disturbing you then that's a BIG SIGNAL that you need to pay attention to: confront all your fears. All of my intense experiences have been worthwhile because they follow this general pattern: fast fall, comedown, disturbing revelations about my life and Self, contemplation and eventual acceptance of these revelations, almost INSTANTANEOUS come-up and euphoria, then a slow come-down (can last days or weeks) that never quite reaches baseline. It's like the feeling you get after being sick for a long time and returning to health. It feels wonderful. I can't imagine having ups without the downs, but I guess that's just me? I generally like to confront everything. It's also possible that I am less developed than some of you and there is more in my life that I'm discontent with. I can't imagine suffering ego-death and thinking there's nothing I should change, you know? There are so many things wrong with our lives in this society that to me, ignoring the disturbing nature of it is accepting it.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #572770 - 03/07/02 08:10 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hey, newb here.

I joined this forum for the sole purpose of explaining the risks of benzos.
Dependency happens fast and withdrawl can be EXTREME. One of my close friends almost died from a "cold-turkey" withdrawal of Valium. Not that he was the smartest guy about drug use: He got his hands on 80mg (that's 8 innocent looking little blue pills) of Valium, then proceeded to smoke it all in the period of 2 hours. Yes, Diazepam can be crushed up and sprinkled on a bowl or rolled in a doob (a very chemical taste). Amazingly, he stayed consious through all this. I'm guessing that the benzo affects the brain slightly differently when vaporized and inhaled, because I've read that 40mg Valium ingested will "take care" of even the worst bad trips. And he didn't pass out? Go figure...
Anyway, 2 days later he started experiencing short periods (15-30 seconds) of unconsiousness. Later we found out that they were petite-mal seizures. These would happen about once every 2 hours. After another 2 days he started having GRAND-MAL SEIZURES in his sleep. That night he had one seizure. The very next night he had a grand-mal seizure EVERY 20 MINUTES until an ambulance was called. By the time the emergency-response team had arrived, he had lost all bladder and bowel control, vomited on himself, and the convulsions had popped his arm AND his leg out of socket on his right side.
All this from a healthy young man with no previous history of epileptic sessions, he'd never had a convulsion in his life. He was in the hospital for 3 days on a Valium drip.

Then there's me. Two weeks ago I was arrested crossing the canadian/US border with 6 10mg pills (the very same ones my friend had, in fact). No big deal you say? WRONG! Diazepam, and pretty much every other substance ending in -pam, is a Schedule IV narcotic in the good 'ol US of A. To all you laypersons out there, it is a Class C Felony to possess a Schedule IV drug without a valid prescription, the maximum penalty for said convictions is 5 YEARS in prison and/or a $10,000 fine.... REGARDLESS OF AMOUNT. I am anxiously awaiting my trial date.

To recap: Benzo's are NOT a user-friendly drug. Misuse and stoopid judgments WILL lead to the loss of more than just a good-night's sleep. Be smart and you should be fine. But for all you American readers out there (I don't know about the European Nations), you don't even have to be taking this drug for it to f*ck your life over hard.

I hope this helps some of you Psycho-nauts out there.
~Greezooo


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: applebonkers]
    #574780 - 03/10/02 06:02 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Applebonkers!

Clonazepam is practically identical to Alprazolam in both FX & dosage... So will combine just as favorably... If you're of average sensitivity.

OTC Benzo's? Well: luckily... No.
Two posts down you see somebodys horrorstory. I'd like to stress AGAIN that Benzos carry risks of their own and ought to be considered "Hard Drugs", even tho most people can manage 'em much more easily than other HD's...
Hope to have helped...


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #574796 - 03/10/02 06:31 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I tried the valium + AMT experiment last night....
I ingested 30mgs of valium @1:00am....40mg AMT 2:30..
Around 3:30-4:00 I had the most wonderful trip I've ever experienced in my whole life...great visuals..huge sense of openness and well being...everything I love about MDMA only better.The clenching of my jaw and nausea were non-existent...I LOVED IT!...
The come down started much earlier for some reason @ around 9:00am..Very sluggish and a BAD headache....tired but couldn't sleep..
I took 2mg of clonazapam and went to dream land until 9:30pm tonight....One of the most beautiful experiences ever for me and my GF....she took the same amount of Valium but smoked the AMT and said it was wonderful as well.. PEACE~&~STAY~SAFE


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goofing off together, but it turns out everybody else went and got rich
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: bluetoad]
    #574807 - 03/10/02 06:53 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Bluetoad

If Benzo's were to snuff out the Higher Good of the Mushroom experience, I'd be highly against the Dual Combi.
But that isn't the case...

Different people react in various ways to Psychedelics. Alot of us get, well, mental & physical stress-symptoms when embarking on a Trip, especially in Psilocybin's first 1 1/2 hours.
This doesn't have to do with being unprepared or being uncertain about doing Shrooms: Alot of people get their neckhairs erected by the simple stresses that accompany the Experience and most so-called Bad Trips are caused by this phenomenon, not by encountering deep dynamic forces suddenly manifesting themselves. This basic "Stress of Arousal" can easily be countered by a very modest dose of a Benzo.

For me personally this Dual Combi is most important as a training tool: To get more familiar & at peace with the Territory & to see the difference between the Experiene with & without Benzostuff. Besides: it can be GREAT for turning on a Newbie.

Guys: I've been to Hellraiser-country a couple of times now. Eah time this happened it was a True Growth Experience which was highly valuable. But these were also the most difficult moments of my life.

When I opened a can of meat whilst stoned out of my skull some years ago, I managed to bungle it so that my blood gushed out of me. Should this have happened some more years ago, I would've panicked like shit. But due to me having been through Hell Psychedelically a calm & centeredness came over me, along with the thought: "Oh: you've seen much, much worse..." which in essence saved my life. ( lost over a half-pint of blood in minutes)
So I wouldn't want to prevent mr. Pinhead from wrapping me in barbed wire & kicking the living shit out of me. Besides: Benzo's won't even prevent that from happening.

But what Benzos DO in this combi is reduce the "simple stresses". This means that you'll be less likely to get an "Unpleasant" Trip for no good reason at all. It also means that should a Demon swoop down on you & shove a red-hot pitchfork up your ass, you'll be more likely to be able to face the situation (which you should do) & come out of it in one piece.
In short: The Shroom + Benzo combi is PSYCHOLOGICALLY SAFER to most (if not all) Trippers than Shrooming straight.

Sure: this thread may give a "control-freak" a false sense of security & make him trip when he shouldn't, but after having studied the combi both in books & in practice I've come to the conclusion that for most the Benefits outweigh the Downside. And personally: the "smoother ride" of this combi will NEVER cause me to abandon Straight Tripping. It's an addition, not a replacement for it.

In a nutshell:
"This Shield won't keep the Dragon away but WILL help you face It more succesfully, while reducing the impact of It's Fire..."
Shit.. Gotta quit: It's metaphor time once again!


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: badjessejames]
    #574816 - 03/10/02 07:07 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Greezo: I agree for the major part with what you wrote. I'd like to add:

BENZOS CAN COMPLETELY FUCK UP YOUR LIFE. NEVER USE MORE THAN THE EQUIVALENT OF 10MG VALIUM IN A WEEK'S TIME !!!!!

80mgs of Valium in one go? I'd say that's about the equivalent of downing a bottle of Smirnoff in one go, whilst I was talking of one or two shotglasses...


BadJesseJames:
Ga-reat you had such a wonderful time!!! But: Valium-30 is a Maximal Medical dose and could've make you puke for like 12 hours, if not worse. Think your headache was Benzo-induced. And then 2mg Clo on top of that (= truckload of Benzo) sheesh... watch out man...
40mg AMT?! You're quite a He-Man Tripper, BJJ!!
Thanx for the super info & I'm glad you & your GF had such a great time!!!


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #575055 - 03/10/02 03:45 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Ok,first off.I can't see why you'd take a benzo with a tryptamine/phenethylamine.If you are receiving such negative reactions,its probably a sign you should stay away from psychedelics in general.Second 10 mg valium equivelent is an extremely low dose for a benzo,I've taken 10 mgs of xanax in combination with opiates and alcohol and I was fine,no memory but other then that.Benzos have almost NO recreational value,besides maybe sleep induction.Third 40 mgs of AMT is not a big dose,I wouldn't do anything under 100 mgs,150 is my usual,perhaps I'm unusually insensitive to tryptamines,but thats what everyone I know also responds to as well.Now if your having "bad trips" that you can't seem to reconcile with,I suggest you stay away from drugs in general,and seek psychiatric help.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Unknown]
    #575060 - 03/10/02 03:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

It seems that naivity and ignorance never ceases.People will believe anyone who acts in an authoratative and psuedo-informed manner.


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OfflineSplat
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Unknown]
    #575226 - 03/10/02 08:30 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I think your the ignorant one....


Why are you criticizing something that many people obviously enjoy, further, 40 mg of AMT is a perfectly respectable dose and 150 is potentialy harmful. If your so hardcore maybe you ought to just start taking more amt.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Unknown]
    #575308 - 03/10/02 10:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Don't turn people away from psychedelics. The personal benefits can far outweigh conventional psychiatric help if used properly. Those of us who don't require guides need to offer ourselves to those who do- everyone is different and some may be more culurally conditioned than you are.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Asante]
    #575324 - 03/10/02 11:08 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hmm... Perhaps I'll try it, as I don't want to close any doors for myself. I just find it hard to believe that my bad trips are NOT caused by "deep dynamic forces suddenly manifesting themselves". Well, not to that extreme, but I don't want to dissolve any of my stresses with the help of anything external... I feel the more effort I have to put into it, the more I learn and can apply to my life. I guess it just comes down to the fact that I like to be as independent as possible, but not everyone is the same. I'll have to try it first before I can make a solid opinion, and I agree, it does sound like a nice combo for a first experience, especially if there's no guide present.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: bluetoad]
    #575341 - 03/10/02 11:47 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Oh,I'm not saying psychiatric intervention helps anyone.If anything the FORCED psychiatric intevention that I've had to undergo since I was 7 has just given me a deep seated contempt people in general.But if you aren't taking the psychedelics to face these fears,and are instead avoiding them by using benzos,a psychiatric drug,then your oviously missing the point.Also just because somebody acts like they know what they're talking about,doesn't mean its true,verify your facts.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Unknown]
    #575581 - 03/11/02 07:43 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

My, my, UNKNOWN.....

That's quite a series of hostile replies... That you had to go through Psychiatric shit starting very early in your life's a REAL bummer man...

About the Demonic stuff: Hey: didn't I just write I derived great Benefit from that? I know for most people such experiences are "The shit that makes 'em quit", but it only encouraged me to pursue Psychedelics further. That you didn't get those kind of things... Good for you! That you react by saying I should go to the same guys that obviously fucked you over... Thats EVIL man...

So: 10mg Valium is peanuts? Why: it's a standard dose given to severely agitated/anxious people in hospital emergency rooms. A nurse aunt of mine told me she has seen several instances of strong people getting a Valium 5, nodding off to sleep, talking like drunk when aroused & then nodding off again. Sure: that's maybe one in a 1.000 but that has to be taken into account if one wants to give recommendations.
10mg Xanax + Opiates + Alcohol...
Since 10mg Alprazolam roughly equals 20 Roofies, the Benzo + Opioid combi is used in euthanasia & Alcohol potentiates both like shit... Did you dose up this Triple Combi to get smashed or to end it all? The Xa alone is quite enough to daterape a 300lbs powerlifter, so you're either sucking all this out of your thumb, got one fuck of a Tolerance to all three or simply are very insensitive to the effects of Benzos. Given the assumption that you also took quite substantial doses of Alc+Opi along with them boxes of Benzos I can safely say the vast majority here on the Shroomery wouldn't live to tell this tale.

And then those 150mgs of AMT. Am I in the wrong here, or are we both talking about Alpha-Methyl-Tryptamine? Good: you said you're "maybe" unusually insensitive to Tryptamine thingies... Take it from me: You Are.
Since AMT has a strong stimulant component to it & is partly metabolized to a Serotonin analogue (AM-5-HT) I'd say that dose would spell disaster for most who tried it. For some people 150mgs of AMT might be a full-body workout, and I mean this in the Grand-Mal Epileptic sense.

You see: if one makes general reccomendations one also has to take the 100lbs anorexic teenager into the equasion, unless one simply doesn't give a shit if someone who tries it makes the headlines...

I DO agree with you that Benzos have little recreational value. One shouldn't approch them as most do Marijuana, since they're basically Hard Drugs & a couple of glasses of Jack Daniels beats the shit out of the Benzo-buzz anyway...


So I sound "authoritative" to you? Thanx man! After having read this you probably think I'm a complete jerk anyway, so please avoid my future posts: they'll only annoy you. BTW: up to age 21 my life was a Living Hell too... I only wish you will one day soon find the Peace I myself found some years ago.

P.E.A.C.E !!!


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: bluetoad]
    #575591 - 03/11/02 08:07 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hi BlueToad...

If you find adding something external to the Mushroom Experience might be a bad thing... I perfectly understand where you're coming from! You always should follow your Heart, especially in Psychedelics!

After my first BenzoTrip exposures I had to do some thorough Soul-Searching myself, to see if adding a Benzo was morally defensible & that it wasn't just a copout from the difficult stuff.
Well: since I'm now practically recommending it I can safely say the Conflict got resolved...

I can't speak for most of YOUR (or any individual's) Bad Trips, but generally it's simple things that lead to difficult trips, not Deep Dynamics. A typical pattern is something small happens, the Tripper moves into difficult regions & then the DD gets activated. This happens most often to newbies who can't navigate yet.
And don't alot of people get all sorts of physical shit in their first 1 1/2 hours? A BenzoTrip is a great way to find out if that nausea/ache/tremor/whatever is Physical or not...

The BenzoTrip is very much like 2CB, but obviously has a strong Shroom flavor.
Since it's a very different Trip altogether & most Trippers I know love to try new stuff, I'd say it would be interesting to try a few and then compare 'em with regular ones. But once again: BENZOS CARRY RISKS.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Asante]
    #576030 - 03/11/02 06:31 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah the alcohol/opiate/xanax combo was about 5 shots of jagermeister,25 mgs hydrocodone,10 mgs xanax.As for AMT,yes we are talking about the same thing,and I don't really mind the stimulant effect,as I just avoid physical exertion on it,I've spent 8 hours talking on the phone while laying in my bed.If you try to exert yourself on AMT its just unnessasary pain.I once tried to ride my bike about a 1/2 mile round trip on 150 mgs,in 100 degree weather.When I finally got back I thought my fucking heart was gonna explode.I weigh 240,I'm 6' 5" so my doses may vary from those of you of significantly smaller size.Also yes forced psychiatric "treatment" meaning being forced into hospitals,forcibly drugged,strapped to beds with leatherstraps face down and injected with who knows what,tends to make a person rather hostile.Good day.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Unknown]
    #576045 - 03/11/02 06:47 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Also,I happen to be naturally pretty tolerant to opiates too it seems.As last Tuesday I took 50 mgs of vicodin (hydrocodone) and snorted 2 bags of some pretty good heroin in the course of 5 hours.I was pretty high,but remained conscious the entire time,didn't even start to nod while I was sitting/standing up.I kept referring to things as "nummy" though.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Unknown]
    #576575 - 03/12/02 07:28 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

To UNKNOWN:

About the Psychiatric shit you had to endure: Being an active member of Amnesty International & having been trough bad shit myself I'd say: Not even if you were a psychopath they should've been allowed to do the stuff to you they did. I think this type of powerhorny dickheads should be strapped and jabbed with a syringefull of Haldol themselves just for it's educational value. What you discribe isn't doctoring: its major USSR shit...

It's a good thing you didn't empty out that bottle o' J?germeister, because the Opioid + Alcohol Combi is really very dangerous. Even if you dislike me to the point of wanting to force-feed me dogshit, please take my advice and be VERY careful with that combination, OK?

Xanax + Opioids + Alcohol... I think anyone willing to make that combination in named doses is really yearning for Peace of Mind. (take no offence, please!) Whenever I want to get highly relaxed by Psychotropics, I reach for the Cannabis. This tends to mellow most people out but I should add that for some it isn't so nice.
If you say: Like the stuff but it's WAY to mild for me, there's another way, a way that can make you Higher a bong ever could. The recipy I use and that for me beats the shit out of the oral Opium i took some 3-4 times:

1...Do not eat for 2-3 hours or longer if it was a heavy meal.
2...Put a pot on the stove & bring 1-2 cups water to a boil, then turn it off.
3...Crumble the desired amount of Grass/Hash into it and let it sit for 1/4 hour.
4...Swallow the solids with the tea. Sugar/sweetener makes it delicious.
5...When it gets desirably intense, lie in your bed in a room as dark as you can get it & try to relax fully, let the mind do it's stuff and try to avoid "active thinking".

How much Cannabis to use for this? You won't even need a Triple Beam or shit like that! If you know how high a joint/pipe of a given amount of same Grass will take you and you have indeed fasted you'll need to crumble about twice the amount that'll get you "there" if smoked. If your Grass is good and you've got scales: 0.3-1.5gr of it will likely be good or way too much for most.

A waste of gear? NO WAY! This'll likely last you 6-12 hours!!! The first 2-4h you'll rise, then there's 2-4h of nearly full force and you'll need an additional 2-4h to come down again. The bed & darkness + passiveness strategy will multiply the relaxation you'll likely get from it and will REALLY get you thinking. The insight can be just as good as with Shrooms, LSD & the like, but in the doses I use you shouldn't expect Angels & Demons swarming in flocks all over the place!

If you ain't a Pothead & dislike the stuff you really shouldn't do this or dose very carefully since 6-12h is an awful long time to dislike what you're feeling.
For me this has proven to be completely relaxing, nearly uniformly euphoric & it gave me tons of insight. It's completely different and (for most I know) highly preferable to smoking Pot the regular way. Oh, BTW: emptying out a bong & then retreating is very similar, but'll come on immediatly and will last only 1-4h.

Hope you (& others) found this an interesting read...


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Offlinebadjessejames
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Asante]
    #579332 - 03/15/02 03:25 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I thought THC was only soliuble(sp?) in oils and alcohols, thats why people boil it in butter and such to make brownies.
If so...how can it be absorbed by just boiling in water...???

Another question...the reason I personally don't like reefer is that , no matter which strain, what amount etc. I get EXTREME paranoia. Would this be lessend by taking the THC orally?


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: badjessejames]
    #579397 - 03/15/02 06:31 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hi BJJ:

You're absolutely right: THC is a Lipotropic molecule and thusly is only sol. in oils and solvents like Alcohol. In your tea there will be some suspended Resin, but not much. Why the tea then?

Water boils at 100'C (dunno the F from memory). Since you have to heat the THC acids to convert those to the THC that IS active but the temp may not rise above 100'C to prevent decomposition, water is the PERFECT vehicle to both get it at this temperature & soften the bud so it won't be hard on your stomach. You HAVE to eat the Grass itself, or you'll toss out 90% of the High! Don't boil the Grass! Bringing the water to a boil, shutting off the heat, adding the Grass & then steeping for 15min has proven to be the most effective procedure. If you warm the Grass dry in a pot, say on an oil bath, the resin would stick to the pot like mad.
I've done some theorizing... How about stuffing 250mg of Grass into gelatin capsules, wrapping em in a kleenex, putting that in a jar with the lid closed & then heating it PF-TEK style? 1-6 caps ought to be the range, then.
But: have to dry-test them caps first. They might melt, become sticky & the Gelatin protein may coagulate to the point of you retrieving the caps from the toilet a day later... It ought to work for vegetarian "starch" capsules: haven't got 'em tho...
Another brainwave: Add a gram or so of Lechitin to the tea before steeping & blend the shit out of it! Alot of the resin'll be emulsified into the solution and that should make it come on quicker, work more strongly & last for a shorter time... Turned on by all that talk of cooking with Grass I once melted a big piece of chocolate (say 2-3oz), crumbled Grass into it and processed it like the tea. I ate what should be a whopping dose but barely noticed ANYTHING.

EXTREME PARANOIA... Well, BJJ: I'd really disreccommend it then. If you smoke reefer the strenght halves every hour or so. But Grasstea is a 6-12 hour Bolero of the very same THC... It's highly likely you'll be paranoid for hours on end. I know folks who dislike it. One of 'em said: I steer clear of Grass... It makes me go mad.
The guy SHOT UP A GRAM OF AMPHETAMINE A DAY !!!
So hey: If bud's unpleasant for you, stick to an occasional petite reefer for Experimenting's sake.....


"Hey Alice..." The Caterpillar said, "Do you wanna suck on my bong?"
"Er... D..Dat ain't a bong..."
"Well: suck on my dong then..." The Caterpillar smiled.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: badjessejames]
    #585952 - 03/22/02 03:44 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I cant say now how the benzo Clonazepam goes with psychadellics, but soon i will be able to give you an idea of how it went for me, i tend to have alot of anxiety on trips.

I am taking Clonazepam regularly at .5 mg doses 1/night, so i have mixed weed with it many times, and i find it to make the high more relaxed and enjoyable.

--Kremlin


--------------------
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Asante]
    #585983 - 03/22/02 04:27 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

No more benzos for me for A LONG TIME!
I seem to get carried away sooooo easy with things sometimes..
I ordered a shitload of cheap valium and klonipin from an OP....I was taking both daily....the next thing I know it's 2 weeks later so I decide I should take a break.
I have been the most depressed,biggest crabby asshole for the last few days....then today...3 days after I quit..I feel fine..
I am blaming the benzos...
Well....not really.....my overconsumption...PEAS~


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: badjessejames]
    #586378 - 03/22/02 03:17 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

it is a known fact that these drugs, when taken for an extended period of time and then ceased, will cause a general "downer" effect for a little while.  i'm assuming that's probably why they are not very widely used recreationally, and mostly just for theraputic benefits in working through personal/emotional issues.  from what i hear they are not all that euphoric, although when i was feeling really tense one day to the point where i was getting physically ill, they worked like magic!  in any case, i love this benzo trip idea and will give it a shot next time i trip :cool:
 


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: badjessejames]
    #586591 - 03/22/02 07:25 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Kremlin & Geokills: Please post the essence of how it was right here! I'm really curious but... Try to get the balance right! Too much Benzo = too little Trip. And the doses too, if you've got scales!

BadJesseJames: As you discribe it it likely was pretty intense, but I've heard a big guy shriek from withdrawal headache after quitting about 6 months of highdose Benzo. You probably used very high doses... This rebound-effect is typical of Benzo's and much more dangerous stuff like Barbs & Opioids. Benzos can give amnesia-fx that are usually dose-dependent.
Great you're out of it! Wait a month or two and if you insist on strong doses try the upper medical range of 20-30mg Valium. This may not be strong, but higher doses tend to give more pronounced side-fx.
Contrary to medical practice I think 1x/week is optimal & daily use undesirable.
But: good you're well again!


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Asante]
    #593877 - 03/30/02 07:04 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I "liberated" some 15 * 2mg Valium today :smile:.

I think I'm going to try 30g (fresh) shrooms + 2mg Valium. Should that be ok?

Oh, and by the way, I finally found a store in holland that still sells nitrous cartridges (BLOKKER doesn't sell them anymore). If anyone is interested, please PM me.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: ChrisL_NL]
    #596205 - 04/02/02 08:00 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

2 mg valium isnt a high dose of valium at all- i used to take lsd and valium alot-to relax the tension while trippin-i would take about 20-30 mg though :smile: 


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: ChrisL_NL]
    #596206 - 04/02/02 08:05 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

1 oz fresh shrooms... I think it's Cubies (the big ones, also called Psilocybe Cubensis, Golden Tops & such) so they'll hold like 18mg PSilocyBin if they're Compostgrown on average & a whopping ~36mg PSB if they're rice/graingrown.

For most people 18-36mg PSB + 2mg Valium (Diazepam) would be too little of the latter to derive benefit out of the Combi.
If your shrooms are HUGE (like over 5in/12cm lenght) they're likely composts & smaller ones or the ones grown on those nice little kits are most likely rice/grain.

I'd say 3-6mg (1 1/2-3 tabs of 2mg if it REALLY IS Diazepam) should be right in most cases. If you're in the dark about their origin I'd say take 1 1/2T along with them. Be prepared for a heavy Trip tho! 30gr Cubies might contain 45mg PSB !!!


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: GaNjAShRooM]
    #596208 - 04/02/02 08:12 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

GanjaShroom...

20-30mg Valium... HOW MUCH ACID DID YOU TAKE FOR CHRISSAKES??? I guess it would be well over 100mcgs, likely 200+mcg, because otherwise it would completely blot out the Trip for most people!
(200mcg Lysergide = 4gr of strong Shrooms in comparison)

In "LSD Psychotherapy" (THE best book on Tripping in my opinion) such doses are reccommended as an aid through the Heaviest of Trips. This dose might make some people puke in the Psychedelic + Benzo-combination, tho...


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: badjessejames]
    #785432 - 07/30/02 02:27 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

A good thread....

.......Thought I'd bump it for those who haven't seen it yet


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: badjessejames]
    #785473 - 07/30/02 03:53 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

BJJ:

Thanks man! Too bad threads fade into the background so quickly!

By the way: I've looked into GHB metabolism and I'm over my toxic concerns by now. Moderate use would likely only produce minimal amounts of Oxalic Acid, probably less than eating a bowl of rhubarb.
Aww, almost started an Urban Legend....

Still I want to urge everybody to be cautious about dose and frequency tho.
4-OH-Butyric Acid is nothing to toy with, just like our beloved shroomy 4-OH-DMT!



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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #786312 - 07/30/02 01:48 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

You are of course absolutely right in my opinion, since I took a handful of Xanax to come down from a bad trip a while back (actually 2.5 mg) I have tried taking .5 - 1.0 mg at the same time as dosing and the come up is much easier with a smoother ride throughout! Xanax is a bit stronger than Valium but I have a very high resistance so don't go by my dose.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Ripple]
    #787419 - 07/31/02 01:58 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Thanx man!

The come-up can be nasty indeed. Quite logical, considering your Dopamine rises to fullblown Schizophrenic hights... Alot of people tend not to like that.
Just took my first Xa some time ago. I agree with my sources that for me 0.5mg (500mcg) of Alprazolam (Xanax) is equivalent to 10mg Diazepam (Valium).

2.5mg of Xa on a fullblown (Bad) Trip may make most quit dizzy, retch and puke.
Lemme guess Ripple... with that .5-1mg of Xa you took 1/8 or more, ammi rite?
People: if you got Shrooms and Benzos, please try this combination. Otherwise, you don't know what you're missing & that WOULD be a shame!


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #788083 - 07/31/02 11:38 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Yes 4 grams of dried cubies exactly, I have quite a high tolerance to Benzo's so the 2.5 grams of Alprazolam does not make me sick at all. I have taken as much as 4 mg's it just puts me to sleep and wipes out my memory.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Ripple]
    #789677 - 08/01/02 04:44 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

4 grams...

Say Ripple, your high tolerance for Xa's is that by (over) indulgance or are you simply somebody who needs more benzo's? And: is it consistent with other Benzo's, if you took any? Just curious...


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #790637 - 08/01/02 01:43 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Oh it's most definately due to over indulgance for a good many years. I have taken as much as 70 mg of Diazepam to no effect. My abuse of Barbituates as a teen has a lot to do with it.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Ripple]
    #792093 - 08/02/02 08:55 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Overindulgence... Perhaps if you quit using them for, say, 6 months, it's likely tolerance will be reversed, so I've read. Is it an option?

Indeed: Benzo's and Barbs overlap somewhat, barbs being highly more toxic tho. (just for the newbies) Do you mean 70mg Diazepam without ANY effect or just no buzz. My doc told me some time ago tolerance to the buzz can be open-ended but generally it's anxiolytic (calming) effects generally plateau out like alcohol does, in essence that you need 2-4x as much to reach the subtle calming effect but completely lose the rush.

I once took the equivalent of 30mg of Valium & had a really strong buzz. All subsequent rushes were less in intensity tho, until I took a 2 month break. I don't use it recreational, anymore. Today I had myself an ice-cold J?germeister & it was more impressive than 10mg Diazepam in the recreational department.

These are subtle drugs, unless you take heroic quantities. Is it your experience too that you just get the "high" in the first few hours & when the drug plateaus (usually 1 1/2-3 hourpoint) the rush diminishes or disappears? I myself only get wiggly in those first hours, but at the hight of the plasma-peak & activity I ain't high anymore, just subtly sedated. Hence I call this effect a Rush: I only get high in the coming-up. Sounds familiar?


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #793016 - 08/02/02 06:28 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Yea you nailed it I do get some sedation on a higher dose but the rush is long gone unless I lay off for a very long time.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #793221 - 08/02/02 07:57 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Just thought I'd add a little benzo update.....

I can no longer trust myself with any benzos whatsoever. My K-pin use came to an end one night with me drinking ALOT of wine and eating 12mgs of Kpins. I lost alot of money...control of my bowels and almost died. You might be reading this thinking "what a dumb fuck...he deserves it"..... This is why I no longer trust myself with these drugs. Before I ever start taking them I know better than to drink with them or take high doses.
When I start taking them....I start to care less and less about ODs-side effects-possible death. I guess the anti anxiety effect might work to good for me or something.....I don't care about my own life (or at least I don't think it could possibly end) while on these.

I'll stick to my good 'ole GHB


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: badjessejames]
    #793564 - 08/03/02 02:06 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

That's BAD, BJJ!

The Alcohol + Benzo combi is highly synergistic an dalot of people lose boundaries better left intact. The Roofie + Alc combi is known here in Holland for agressive outbursts in people who use this combi. Each one seperate might be good, but the combi can make you hurl & OD unpleasantly. Even I don't like the Combi. 12mg is an extremely high dose of Klo, tho. I wouldn't dare take that much even without the alcohol! Benzo's dare generally quite low-risk when used in moderation, but if taken to excess or with alcohol they can be very dangerous.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #793788 - 08/03/02 08:07 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Your first post? you have over 400???

This is a very good thread!


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #793800 - 08/03/02 08:12 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Yea I agree this combo is extremely dangerous, this I can tell you from experience. I myself am very lucky to still be alive and writing this post today, however I know at least 10 or 12 friends who were not so lucky.

This morning my best friend was sleeping in his bed
His face like a jewel and he was dead
He was a friend of mine
Now he's dead and gone


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Ripple]
    #795014 - 08/04/02 03:52 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Thanx 4 the compliment Ripple!
When you write your first post you'd better have something to say I figured

Alcohol & Benzo's... It's very sad to lose friends, particularly by some stupid accident that could've easily be avoided. A friend of mine got piss-drunk, raped & got AIDS because of this. Life can be very, very tough. My condolances

I believe everything'll turn out fine in the end by Re?ncarnation, but this is a meager comfort in the light of Life's fragile nature.

Everybody PLEASE be careful with your Mind, Body and Soul. Recreational and Pharmaceutical drugs are BIG THINGS and I urge you to take responsibility for your own life and those around you you affect. Drugs aren't toys and using them carries risk and demands responsible behavior. Combinations are especially dangerous, as are high doses in general. To All: know Your Self & your Drugs.
I feel this should be said.




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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #801307 - 08/07/02 02:50 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Over a 1.000 people have looked at this and a 5 shroomy rating!
Has anybody NOT read this thread yet???


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #802289 - 08/07/02 12:39 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

guess I missed it my bad...benzo is clonazepam clonapin in this category its for anxiety and i know it would mix well with shrooms ...


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: UFOz8MyGoat] * 1
    #803656 - 08/08/02 01:42 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

IMPORTANT UPDATE !!!

I've been experimenting lately with NiacinAMIDE, Vitamin B3 Amide aka. Nicotinic acid AMIDE and have come up with GREAT results.

I got searching after I read that B-3 enhances GABA activity in the brain, just as Benzo's do. Would Niacinamide (a NO FLUSH FORM of B-3) act similarly as a Benzo as to ease difficult trips & give an all-natural equivalent to BenzoTripping?

IT DOES! I've discovered 100mg of Niacinamide is about equal in potency to 1-2mg of Valium (Diazepam). There only is one catch: the first 15-30minutes will be MORE INTENSE. This may make Bad Trips worse for some minutes but may also give resolution if the Bad one wasn't caused by overload.

Thus B3 is best suited to take along with your Shroomdose to yield what I have named a B3-Trip. It works just like a BenzoTrip but instead of using a Benzo one merely takes a Vitamin which is good for you. I get my Niacinamide in bottles of 100 tabs of 100mg for $5 and this would be equivalent to 20-40 tabs of VALIUM-5, which is highly impressive. For a 1 gram trip of strong shrooms (say 12mg of Psilocybin) 100-300mg of Niacinamide will suffice. To counter a bad trip I'd say take 300mg, repeat twice if necessary. One may expect a buildup of 15-30min, clear decline in 45min and a totally smooth trip at 1 1/2 hours after taking B3, provided the Bad one was caused by OVERLOAD and NOT Psychologics.

Nicotinic ACID may be used as well, I guess, but this causes a highly unpleasant body rush in the doses described, and I suspect it gives a tremendous boost before smoothing out the Trip, so I guess this woud be best used, if at all, as a salute to the shroom to liven it up again whilst coming down.

I think Inositol Hexanicotinate (another No Flush B3) will be too slow-acting to be of practical use.
Hope anybody's still around to read this!


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #804216 - 08/08/02 10:27 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Oki, first of all thanks a lot for starting and (sort of) moderating this great thread. I took the time to read all of the posts in it, so you can tell I liked it a lot :]
So I think on my next shroom trip I will try Niacinamide to protect myself a little .

If I understood you right, this is what I do:
Go to the pharmacy, ask for Niacinamide tablets, buy them (legally even :]) and ingest them about 45 minutes prior to the point of time where I believe that the shrooms will kick in ?


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: bla]
    #805271 - 08/08/02 06:59 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

WS:....Yeah ... I've also read in other posts that this works well.

bla: You can buy it at any store that sells vitamins....I don't think a pharmacy would even carry it.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #806207 - 08/09/02 06:06 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Pardon my ignorance, but how does one acquire benzos without a prescription nor a black market dealer?


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Swami]
    #808991 - 08/10/02 03:00 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

[how does one acquire benzos without a prescription ]

One does not!


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #809465 - 08/10/02 06:57 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

all a matter of style. Antiseizure meds work for chilling down the trip. Advantage is that they're not controlled, so uncle leo has no beef with you. I keep neurontin, dilantin, and lamictal on hand. Ordered them for internet pharmacy in thailand. Once the experience progresses from being fresh/up/interesting to irritating/stressful/useless time has come to do 25 mg. of lamictal sublingual, followed by 100-200 mg of neurontin or 100-300 mg of dilantin. Works like a charm up to medium intensity trip experiences, not strong enough for full up bugouts. Don't dose higher, because these medicines need an adaptation period while the body produces the necesary enzymes to metabolize them. Some interactions, check your PDR, please.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: dendritic44]
    #810131 - 08/11/02 06:09 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

How to get Benzo's? Don't worry! Or actually: DO WORRY, worry about it in the late hours of the night & keep on worrying, then visit a doc and explain you can't sleep because you're worrying about important issues you can't get out of your head...

What works for me is Niacinamide taken at the same time as the Shrooms & I do that with Diet 7UP because that potentiates just about any alkaloid. (lotsa Citric and Carbonic acids, no sugar)

Dendritic: be VERY CAREFUL with those anticonvulsants! They're way more dangerous than Benzo's generally and easier to overdo. Lamictal (Lamotrigine) is notorious for causing "Stevens Johnson Syndrome" a lifethreatening skin condition. I've seen medical photo's of both Iraqi Mustard Gas victims and I've seen SJS photos. I couldn't tell them apart. It's like a bucket of boiling oil is poured out over your head and that's as explicit as I want to get.

Dunno Neurontin but 100-300mg of Dilantin (Phenytoin) is quite a stiff dose & you're naming quite a combi there! (two different kinds of anticonvulsants at once) How does it work for you? Any noticable sideFX?

I think that for Bad Trip intervention one is best off with a Benzo and for special trips the B3-Trip would be best. A way to speed up the onset of Benzo's is to pulverize the tab and place it under the tongue (sublingual) as the B enters the bloodstream much quicker that way. Lorazepam (Ativan) is even prescribed that way. 1mg Lorazepam = 10mg Diazepam (Valium)


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #810588 - 08/11/02 11:15 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

yeah, good point about the Stevens-Johnson syndrome
and Lamicatal.

Let me back up a step and put this in context.

My psychoactive allies at the present come from
the tryptamine family, 2ct-2, DPt, 5-meo-Dpt and
a vial of AMT that remains unopened.

I dose for subtlety these days. No more dynamite to the
next level of consciousness. Better to combine meditation,
bodywork, lots of exercise, good nutrition, intense sex,
and a pinch of tryptamine for extra juice.

Resultantly, the dosage is fairly minimal to achieve the
desired mental condition. A chunk of 5-meo the size of a
sesame seed is a good start, twice that big a serious buzz.

Lamictal does have some major caveats surrounding its
use. One in one thousand adults who took it to control
seizures developed S-J syndrome, and more worrying, one
in fifty adolescents did. For that reason, lamictal is
only prescribed for the adult population.

However, these are a group that ramped up their
dose fairly rapidly (one report describes an end
dosage of 300 mg/day and 500 mg/day, seems like a
hell of a lot to me!) and stayed on it for a while.

The full studies are not available, but the suggestion
is that these symptoms appeared within two weeks. What
were the dosage levels adjusted for body weight or the
mean period before the onset of the first symptoms ?
No good info there.

Rememeber,when your alternative is seizure induced
brain injury, you're more inclined to take medicine that
no sane person otherwise would. High doses of anticonvulsants
over extended periods are dangerous. Epileptics, God help them,
are forced to live with this pharmacological reality every
day of their lives.

In my case, I made a risk/reward calculation that
I took responsibility for. Everyone out there has to
consider the risks and rewards of every decision they
make. Old Taoist saying goes four times over in this game,
"measure twice, cut once".

My decision, as applies only to me, is that the risk of
taking a single 25 mg. Lamicatal, on occasion, as a first
step in taking the edge off my little tryptamine moment,
was not too great in comparison to the wear and tear on
my brain that it was sparing me.

If that didn't have the desired effect, then I would take
either 100 mg. of Dilantin OR 100 mg. of Neurontin, never
both together, either one or the other. The wait about
45 minutes. The most I've ever had to take in this context
is 200 mg. of Neurontin.

Personally, I tend to favor Dilantin as a better match for
my body chemistry. Neurontin feels heavier, but it is
GABAergic, so it gives you some of the same dynamics as benzos
do.

Dilantin is chemically a relative of barbiturates, so its
toxicity and other problems are going to be somewhat barblike.

Absolutely do not consume alcohol or take a lot
of other unknown meds with any of these. But that's
plain old common sense. Dilantin is an old medicine, and
just about everything that is going to be known about it
already is. Definitely consult a PDR and look up drug
interactions. Some of the newer antifungal drugs (maybe even
Diflucan?) and antihistamines have had weird interactions.

Same goes for Neurontin, or any other prescription med
you want to ingest. Used wisely and in moderation, they
can be useful helpers.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: dendritic44]
    #816483 - 08/14/02 01:36 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Good point!

Personally I've read about Phenytoin in bad trip intervention and have used it once in a 100mg dose, several times more in 25-50mg doses. I would prefer it to Lamictal but then again: That's use as a means to end a bad trip & not an effective anticonvulsant dose...

If anyone wants to give Lamictal a recreational try I strongly disrecommend it and you should at least work it up slow. It's a dichlorobenzylhydrazine and that means you can get all sorts of allergic or hypersensitivityreactions, especially on abusing it. It's affinity for pigmented parts of the body has me worried too.
Why am I down on Lamictal? My mother took it and worked her way up to 150mgs once daily exactly as Glaxo-Smithkline recommends. She got a severe allergic reaction suspected to be Stevens Johnson and was rushed to the hospital. Fortunately it wasn't SJS, they're certain about it now but she has to get a new pharm as soon as possible & the swellings & such have to fade away. She's doing much better now but I still think it's bad stuff, especially for the kids outthere.

To the newbie outthere: PHARMS AREN'T TOYS! If you want to get fucked up don't be surprised if you get fucked over by the drug!





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Edited by Asante (08/14/02 01:56 AM)


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #818134 - 08/15/02 03:01 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Very cool
I wished I would have had this info a long time ago. I one time ate acid then one of my bro s came over with a bunch of Blue ringers, so I ate a whole bunch of em
also. What a wacked out trip that was!!!! If I would have known this earlier I
could have returned to earth sooner.Just ask Roadkill about that trip I believe he was there.
THANX


--------------------
Later
metalfinn

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: metalfinn]
    #819243 - 08/16/02 04:20 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

consider something called Bioactive B-12.... it comes in the form of a sublingual
lozenge, usually 1 mg. and 5 mg. doses. It won't have any direct effect on the trip,
but it will protect against brain damage from excess neuronal stimulation.
Sorry to say, but yes, there really are psychedelic casualties. Better not to wake up and find yourself half gone for the next twenty years.
Bioactive B-12 is known as METHYLcobalamin... regular b-12 is CYANOcobalamin... about 1% of regualr b-12 converts into Bioactive B-12 in the liver.
Methylcobalamin is a known "neuroprotective" supplement. That means it protects the CNS (central nervous system... i.e. yer brane, as well as the peripheral nervous system, i.e. spinal cord and nerves) against unintentional damage from overstimulation...

DON'T take this stuff and think it will be a free ticket to be insanely reckless, becaue that is, well, not the smart way to do things in the first place.

I would consider supplementing with it before and serious adventures as a matter of good long term brain health.

You can read up on all the boring science behind this with articles like

"Chronic administration of methylcobalamin protects cultured retinal neurons against N-methyl-D- aspartate-receptor-mediated glutamate neurotoxicity, probably by altering the membrane properties through SAMe-mediated methylation".



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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: dendritic44]
    #825028 - 08/18/02 08:36 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Aye: there really are psychedelic casualties.
Met & read alot of 'em on the Shroomery fora...

It's really tragic: people still believe nothing bad can happen on psychedelics & don't even bother to read up on it. There's HPPD outthere, Psychotic breakdowns, "Insights" that take the foundations from under your life, LSD traffic accidents, Shroom suicides, bad trips that keep lingering & lingering for years on end... But alot of Shroomerites do NOT want to hear this. "Oh sure, some unstable dude probably.." well: under a good 1/8 of Shrooms EVERYBODY is an "unstable dude"...

The risks are relatively small as compared to other drugs, but risks there are!

On METHYLcobalamin... I'm gonna try to find that over here in Holland! I take megavitamins and strongly believe everybody should, especially us druggies! Since it mainly concerns NMDA this form of B12 should be especially useful for people into the dangerous Dissociatives like Ketamine or DXM. Thanx man!


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #825632 - 08/18/02 02:25 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

that's correct about methyl B12 and dissociatives. Some more mainstream literature
is recommending this before Nitrous Oxide at the dentist. Salvia , especially the salvia concentrates, may fall into this category too. Don't overlook this for your serotonin family trips, though. I would (and will) take a 5mg. dose before any serious adventuring. Back on topic, have had some great times, very outrageous though, mixing lsd and quaaludes... instead of normal tripping, I started babbling like a demon possesed maniac at a fundamentalist revival... became a firehose of verbal trash spraying anyone who ventured near... then went out and saw beautiful delicate lacy patterns glowing all over everything... the feeling was incredibly sexy... like a three hour orgasm... but I feel sorry for anyone not attuned to the vibe who had to endure my company... hard combo to find, quality acid meets good quaa's... remember not to add alcohol to this mix... one of my old buds passed on as a result of beer+quaalude... went to sleep in a strange position and closed off his windpipe.. woke up dead...


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: dendritic44]
    #825656 - 08/18/02 02:36 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

another nice idea is to use a mind machine the day before you trip to tune your state. Photosonix Nova Pro is great for this. Even by itself it can be surprisingly intense and leave your head a tad jumpy... all that flashing light causes noradrenaline release in the brain... you said you are epileptic ? forget it... strobed light can trigger seizures... although there have been reports of epileptics taking lsd, mushrooms, etc... and how does that interact with all the meds they take ?... well, lets say you aren't seizure prone or highly anxious... you might want to take a little valium to get slippery and lay back with the true white goggles on one of their longer meditation routines, give you brain exchanges (like the corpus collosum) a good workout, get both hemispheres in sync... a well tuned trip can be pretty damn amazing... kinda of more precise experience


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: dendritic44]
    #825687 - 08/18/02 02:48 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

come to think of it, the best of all is a good 'delic, smoothed and mellowed by the appropriate med of your choice, with a slithery greasy wanton massage to bring it all together... for this you want primo luv lube... baby oil won't cut it... you need silicone.... get Wet Platinum...dense, smooth, silky... and best of all, condom safe !
(p.s. Japansese condoms rule in this department)...after a nice warmup with 2-ct2 Miss Lovebody seemed like she was glowing blue and we got into a crazy YabYum co-tripping energy loop... YES this is it ! Sex and Drugs in perfect proportion.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: dendritic44]
    #834683 - 08/21/02 11:53 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Nitrous Oxide at the dentist?!

Shid, wish MY dentist would consider that, me having to get drilled & filled in a few hours from now

Quaaludes & Trips?
Methaqualone kind of matches Barbiturates in alot of it's effects, and is WAY stronger then Benzostuff. It's very good at removing inhibitions. Don't want to do that on a Bad one. But on a good trip...? Might be interesting...
But as you said: be VERY careful with quaaludes, and NO ALCOHOL
Tragic to lose a friend that way, man...



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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #834796 - 08/22/02 01:49 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I love reading the trip reports, but I sure do hate it when people tell us so much of the prelude. Does everybody feel this way ? How people do all sorts of things and what not before they start to tell us about the trip. I have like zero care for that part. ANd a pain in the ass to skip ahead, because then you are not sure if you m issed anything important. I say, "people, please keep your reports to the trips themselves."
thank you


--------------------
"It is a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart"


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: drow]
    #839842 - 08/24/02 07:04 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

what is "trip" and what is "not trip" depends so much on what information
has value and how much is personal reality tv that nobody acres about. A psychologist friend of mine said that he couldn't believe how much boring pointless
stuff filled up so many people's brains, but seemed important to the people thinking it. His big insight was how small minded and petty such a majority of are, but they would come to him for magical relief from their problems. They wanted to have a problem with a significant name. The one thing they could not accept was the straight answer that they were actually miserable because of their itty bitty little souls with their itty bitty little issues that ran their lives from sunrise to sunset.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #10626655 - 07/05/09 09:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

so this will make for a more visual trip then a thinking one?


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InvisibleShad0w
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #10627066 - 07/05/09 11:19 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

What an awesome ressurect! :cool:

Is this really your first post wiccan_seeker?

Very informative.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's *DELETED* [Re: Shad0w]
    #10630233 - 07/06/09 03:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Lion

Reason for deletion: .


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Lion]
    #10631109 - 07/06/09 06:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'll do the same

last year I took 1 mg of xanax with 200 mics of LSD and fell asleep four hours in, I was laying down enjoying myself and relaxing and I decided to ease into my chair and next thing I knew it was morning. The trip before that was still enjoyable but I knew early in I had overdone in on the benzos as I was too drowsy to enjoy any of it.

recently I tried .5 mg with two hits of blotter and it was very easy to explore the trip but there was still a significant xanax body buzz that overrode the energetic feeling of LSD. On the plus side though, perfect for concert. I was able to function and talk regularly amidst the thought patterns and visuals which weren't really dampened it seemed. I wouldnt combine the two unless you either had anxiety or wanted to trip in public.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Asante]
    #10806276 - 08/05/09 06:21 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

:facepalm:



Wow, I came a long way since then, sheesh :heart:


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Asante]
    #10807764 - 08/05/09 10:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

What do you mean W_S?  Do you disapprove of the recreational use of benzos now?  They are pretty dangerous drugs but they seem pretty beneficial when used with psychedelics.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Lion]
    #10809901 - 08/06/09 07:43 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I think its worth trying for shrooms.. when you take higher doses like 5 to 7 grams it can ease you into the trip much better than without. Shrooms tend to be so INTENSE... taking a football with a beer and ur shrooms can make the trip sooo much better.

I would also recommend doing one at the very end of the trip right when ur wanting to sleep.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #10821199 - 08/08/09 04:58 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

As an old traveler of my inner space,( since 1966) I would not enter a trip without out benzos( clonazepam)in my pocket.

Will one 2 mg colnazepam( equal to 10Mgs Valium) taken 1 hour before shield me form the outer hell and terror and total loss of ID( for three minutes) that Salvia has caused me the three time I tried it?

I would like to find the kind side of Lady Salvia if I can, but it can an did cause me physical harm in my terror

Thank you!

Trebor...aka BOB-NM


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #10896839 - 08/20/09 01:15 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

if the H is pure its not "toxic", I to the point that it is a safe enough drug.  Water can be toxic...  Just as long as you are given a safe dose, hell even if your not narcan can be administered and will rip thoughs h molecules off the mu receptors with ease


--------------------
"Consciousness survives the death of the body on which it rides"...



*Disclaimer*

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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #10896897 - 08/20/09 01:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

if the H is pure its not "toxic", I to the point that it is a safe enough drug.  Water can be toxic...  Just as long as you are given a safe dose, hell even if your not narcan can be administered and will rip thoughs h molecules off the mu receptors with ease


--------------------
"Consciousness survives the death of the body on which it rides"...



*Disclaimer*

Everything written from this account are meant for amusement purposes ONLY.  Everything written or posted from this account are NOT TRUE.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: LuckeyMA]
    #10913605 - 08/22/09 06:28 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder if taking a benzo daily (klonopin) has that much of an effect on the trip. IME, when I've been on klonopin I've taken acid twice and shrooms once and they didn't seem like "shielded" trips but who knows.


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OfflineB0XCUTTA STYLE
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: dendritic44]
    #10914857 - 08/22/09 09:40 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dendritic44 said:
what is "trip" and what is "not trip" depends so much on what information
has  value and how much is personal reality tv that nobody acres about. A psychologist friend of mine said that he couldn't believe how much boring pointless
stuff filled up so many people's brains, but seemed important to the people thinking it. His big insight was how small minded and petty such a majority of are, but they would come to him for magical relief from their problems. They wanted to have a problem with a significant name. The one thing they could not accept was the straight answer that they were actually miserable because of their itty bitty little souls with their itty bitty little issues that ran their lives from sunrise to sunset. 





I really enjoyed reading this post.
that is all


--------------------


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: B0XCUTTA STYLE]
    #10920277 - 08/23/09 04:35 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

B0XCUTTA STYLE said:
Quote:

dendritic44 said:
what is "trip" and what is "not trip" depends so much on what information
has  value and how much is personal reality tv that nobody acres about. A psychologist friend of mine said that he couldn't believe how much boring pointless
stuff filled up so many people's brains, but seemed important to the people thinking it. His big insight was how small minded and petty such a majority of are, but they would come to him for magical relief from their problems. They wanted to have a problem with a significant name. The one thing they could not accept was the straight answer that they were actually miserable because of their itty bitty little souls with their itty bitty little issues that ran their lives from sunrise to sunset. 





I really enjoyed reading this post.
that is all





i don't see whats so enjoyable about that...the guy is just obviously tired of his job...those issues are meaningful to that person...and not to him...thats why they are so itty bitty.... speculating from a distance is not the same.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #18728006 - 08/19/13 04:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Just to add my contrib.

Every year i make a mushroom trip with benzo.


empty stomach
Dosage: 6mg bromazepam and 2h later 5g dry cubs reduced in powder and enclosed in capsules (the capsule is just a tip to avoid the horrible taste :smile: ).

The trip does takes control more hardly and you have to make it raise if you want to get very high (for me it's a good techno set in my mp3 and looking stars)

The good point is that you are not dissociated and can easily calm down if it goes in the wrong way.

It's just my experience. I like it.

With LSD i had experiences without benzo, but the end of the trip was horrible (impossible to sleep, anxiety, headache etc). The first time i tried benzo it was to end a LSD trip. Then i tried before a trip in order to bee less dissociated (in don't like it), and it works fine for me.


Edited by tiresias (08/19/13 04:51 PM)


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: tiresias]
    #18728993 - 08/19/13 08:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I remember reading the OP 11.5 years ago and thinking cool beans, must try that, now where can I get some benzos...?


--------------------
---------------------------------------------------
hmmm........


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Champion des Champignons]
    #18730732 - 08/20/13 04:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

In France you must be insomniac or depressive or have a friend who is... impossible to obtain benzo without a doctor prescription.


Edited by tiresias (08/20/13 04:22 AM)


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: tiresias]
    #18767335 - 08/28/13 08:27 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

bookmark


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: octopus]
    #18768217 - 08/28/13 02:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Was trying to skim through this, but I was curious on how much benzo you need for a CID trip.  There have been times when shit hit the fan and I didn't have them around.  I want to make sure I know how to dose them if the trip becomes a little too much.  Okay a lot too much!


--------------------
I've kissed mermaids, rode the El Niño.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: FakePlasticSky]
    #18769653 - 08/28/13 08:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FakePlasticSky said:
Was trying to skim through this, but I was curious on how much benzo you need for a CID trip.  There have been times when shit hit the fan and I didn't have them around.  I want to make sure I know how to dose them if the trip becomes a little too much.  Okay a lot too much!




Id imagine 1-2mg xanax or etizolam would be sufficent. Depending how heavy shit hit the fan, then 2 or maybe 3mg. This number might be a bit higher for etizolam.

If your using phenibut, then 2-4gs. 1g might be sufficent though to calm you down and get you back on track. This one is unique though, Im not sure if it would be as effective.


I have not aborted a trip with benzos yet, but based on some experience with them in the past Id say these numbers would be close.


Edited by weshroom (08/28/13 08:07 PM)


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OfflineFakePlasticSky
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: weshroom]
    #18769724 - 08/28/13 08:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

weshroom said:
Quote:

FakePlasticSky said:
Was trying to skim through this, but I was curious on how much benzo you need for a CID trip.  There have been times when shit hit the fan and I didn't have them around.  I want to make sure I know how to dose them if the trip becomes a little too much.  Okay a lot too much!




Id imagine 1-2mg xanax or etizolam would be sufficent. Depending how heavy shit hit the fan, then 2 or maybe 3mg. This number might be a bit higher for etizolam.

If your using phenibut, then 2-4gs. 1g might be sufficent though to calm you down and get you back on track. This one is unique though, Im not sure if it would be as effective.


I have not aborted a trip with benzos yet, but based on some experience with them in the past Id say these numbers would be close.




I never either, but there were about 3 trips the last 6 months that I wished I had something.  One occasion, I was punching myself in the face.  I wish I was able to abort that one!  Lol


--------------------
I've kissed mermaids, rode the El Niño.


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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: FakePlasticSky]
    #18770169 - 08/28/13 09:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

FakePlasticSky said:
Quote:

weshroom said:
Quote:

FakePlasticSky said:
Was trying to skim through this, but I was curious on how much benzo you need for a CID trip.  There have been times when shit hit the fan and I didn't have them around.  I want to make sure I know how to dose them if the trip becomes a little too much.  Okay a lot too much!




Id imagine 1-2mg xanax or etizolam would be sufficent. Depending how heavy shit hit the fan, then 2 or maybe 3mg. This number might be a bit higher for etizolam.

If your using phenibut, then 2-4gs. 1g might be sufficent though to calm you down and get you back on track. This one is unique though, Im not sure if it would be as effective.


I have not aborted a trip with benzos yet, but based on some experience with them in the past Id say these numbers would be close.




I never either, but there were about 3 trips the last 6 months that I wished I had something.  One occasion, I was punching myself in the face.  I wish I was able to abort that one!  Lol




Damnn... yea that'd be the time to use it!


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Offlineweshroom
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: weshroom]
    #18770328 - 08/28/13 10:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Left you a rating sky, check it out!


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: weshroom]
    #18774444 - 08/29/13 08:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I took an mg Xanax during a run of bad dmt trips and that particular trip was fantastic and in fact seemed potentiated. It was like my first time all over again


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OfflineRR42013
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #18799682 - 09/04/13 05:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Does anyone think if I took .5 mg of Xanax for 3 grams of shrooms would eliminate the uneasiness of coming up? Chances r they r cubes.


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OfflineGreySatyr
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: RR42013]
    #18811746 - 09/07/13 04:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Awesome thread although I have no experience with benzodiazepines and psychedelics. Xanax makes me violent but I do like valiums. I've never used a benzo to abort a trip either but I suppose they're nice to have handy. I may try this one day down the road.


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...also, go to hell, huh?


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OfflineHardrock3742
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #23502706 - 08/02/16 07:41 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

I tried 0.25mg alprazolam and 2g shrooms and the alprazolam didnt do a damn thing. Im very familiar with it as I am prescribed and 0.25mg will usually get me pretty calm real quick. You can see my trip report here: https://www.shroomery.org/13732/Still-cant-have-good-trip-on-shrooms


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Offlineshroomizzy
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Hardrock3742]
    #23511912 - 08/05/16 09:49 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Umm sounds like it worked to me.


At 3 you said you took the benzo...


At 330 you said you this was the last you remember being anxious..... sounds like it worked like a charm


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:::::Sincerely Yours, I disown you:::::


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Offlinekyu
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #25699375 - 12/24/18 05:17 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Dear Asante,

Thank you so much for this guide! I've been struggling with anxiety in my trips and everyday life forever, trying to learn how to OVERCOME it to get some therapeutic effect. But, having overcome it for dozens of times, I realized it wouldn't go away, it's just some natural predisposition that I have. At most, I can develop some sort of temporal tolerance to stress hormones, but that's it.

Anxiety was worth exploring, because I've learned how it works and how to handle it, but not it's time for some shielded trips!

Actually, I haven't tried your combo, but taking some valerian+melissa+mint extract worked just fine several times. Looks like my natural sensitivity to substances allows using plant sedatives instead of benzos.

Now, a question. I'll try to explore this myself, but what do you think of caffeine withdrawal? The symptoms I get when going 'cold turkey' on coffee are pretty similar to a sedated state (if you don't count headache, but shrooms can take care of it).

Has anyone tripped during caffeine withdrawal?


--------------------
You gave me a wonderful, wonderful world,
And you gave me eyes to see it,
And you gave me LSD to open them.


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Offlinefeevers
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: kyu]
    #25707654 - 12/28/18 02:40 PM (2 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

kyu said:
Dear Asante,

Thank you so much for this guide! I've been struggling with anxiety in my trips and everyday life forever, trying to learn how to OVERCOME it to get some therapeutic effect. But, having overcome it for dozens of times, I realized it wouldn't go away, it's just some natural predisposition that I have. At most, I can develop some sort of temporal tolerance to stress hormones, but that's it.

Anxiety was worth exploring, because I've learned how it works and how to handle it, but not it's time for some shielded trips!

Actually, I haven't tried your combo, but taking some valerian+melissa+mint extract worked just fine several times. Looks like my natural sensitivity to substances allows using plant sedatives instead of benzos.

Now, a question. I'll try to explore this myself, but what do you think of caffeine withdrawal? The symptoms I get when going 'cold turkey' on coffee are pretty similar to a sedated state (if you don't count headache, but shrooms can take care of it).

Has anyone tripped during caffeine withdrawal?



Possibly consider ashwaghanda and lemon balm as well, they both synergize nicely with psychedelics. I personally never mix anything with psychedelics, the natural anxiety and chance of a "bad" trip are just a part of it for me, but I can definitely see the appeal.

When I'm in caffeine withdrawal I'm usually anxious, irritable, foggy and sometimes get headaches... not ideal for tripping. Plus I usually just want to sleep, which goes against the grain of the stimulated tripping experience. Everyone handles withdrawal differently though.


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