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Invisiblevermiculite
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #567520 - 03/02/02 05:04 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Very interesting Wicca--- Have you ever tried alprazolam (xanax) with about 2grams of cubensis? I am thinking about this combo and using the shrooms to make tea. What would the appropriate xanax dosage be to keep me awake, but nice and calm? About .25mg or.5? Should I wait to drink the tea until about an hour after taking the xanax?

--peace--


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: vermiculite]
    #567823 - 03/02/02 04:38 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Vermic!

Alprazolam... From Memory I'd say Xanax 0.25mg = 10mg Valium.
2gr Cubies average 12mg usually or 25mg if they're Super.

If you're averagely sensitive to both & assuming your Cubies are strong I'd say go for 0.125mg Xanax. If the shroomies ain't the Xa may be too strong then...
Please post your findings in brief rite here...


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Offlineapplebonkers
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: vermiculite]
    #568181 - 03/03/02 02:22 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Is Clonazepam (blue/geen) tablet safe for mixing with psilo-*? I love your posts Wiccan, very informative, good luck with your experiemnts, are they any benzos i can buy over the counter"?



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Offlinebluetoad
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #569732 - 03/04/02 05:22 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I'm very wary of combining substances to make my experiences "easier" or more "pleasant". I'm curious why you do this. Personally, I don't understand what any of you are talking about when you describe a trip as being "bad". As far as mushrooms go, I welcome whatever revelations they present me with because they always feel honest and truthful despite how frightening they are. I think that the downs are necessary to feel the ups. There must be a balance. If something about your experience is disturbing you then that's a BIG SIGNAL that you need to pay attention to: confront all your fears. All of my intense experiences have been worthwhile because they follow this general pattern: fast fall, comedown, disturbing revelations about my life and Self, contemplation and eventual acceptance of these revelations, almost INSTANTANEOUS come-up and euphoria, then a slow come-down (can last days or weeks) that never quite reaches baseline. It's like the feeling you get after being sick for a long time and returning to health. It feels wonderful. I can't imagine having ups without the downs, but I guess that's just me? I generally like to confront everything. It's also possible that I am less developed than some of you and there is more in my life that I'm discontent with. I can't imagine suffering ego-death and thinking there's nothing I should change, you know? There are so many things wrong with our lives in this society that to me, ignoring the disturbing nature of it is accepting it.


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OfflineGreezooo
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #572770 - 03/07/02 08:10 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hey, newb here.

I joined this forum for the sole purpose of explaining the risks of benzos.
Dependency happens fast and withdrawl can be EXTREME. One of my close friends almost died from a "cold-turkey" withdrawal of Valium. Not that he was the smartest guy about drug use: He got his hands on 80mg (that's 8 innocent looking little blue pills) of Valium, then proceeded to smoke it all in the period of 2 hours. Yes, Diazepam can be crushed up and sprinkled on a bowl or rolled in a doob (a very chemical taste). Amazingly, he stayed consious through all this. I'm guessing that the benzo affects the brain slightly differently when vaporized and inhaled, because I've read that 40mg Valium ingested will "take care" of even the worst bad trips. And he didn't pass out? Go figure...
Anyway, 2 days later he started experiencing short periods (15-30 seconds) of unconsiousness. Later we found out that they were petite-mal seizures. These would happen about once every 2 hours. After another 2 days he started having GRAND-MAL SEIZURES in his sleep. That night he had one seizure. The very next night he had a grand-mal seizure EVERY 20 MINUTES until an ambulance was called. By the time the emergency-response team had arrived, he had lost all bladder and bowel control, vomited on himself, and the convulsions had popped his arm AND his leg out of socket on his right side.
All this from a healthy young man with no previous history of epileptic sessions, he'd never had a convulsion in his life. He was in the hospital for 3 days on a Valium drip.

Then there's me. Two weeks ago I was arrested crossing the canadian/US border with 6 10mg pills (the very same ones my friend had, in fact). No big deal you say? WRONG! Diazepam, and pretty much every other substance ending in -pam, is a Schedule IV narcotic in the good 'ol US of A. To all you laypersons out there, it is a Class C Felony to possess a Schedule IV drug without a valid prescription, the maximum penalty for said convictions is 5 YEARS in prison and/or a $10,000 fine.... REGARDLESS OF AMOUNT. I am anxiously awaiting my trial date.

To recap: Benzo's are NOT a user-friendly drug. Misuse and stoopid judgments WILL lead to the loss of more than just a good-night's sleep. Be smart and you should be fine. But for all you American readers out there (I don't know about the European Nations), you don't even have to be taking this drug for it to f*ck your life over hard.

I hope this helps some of you Psycho-nauts out there.
~Greezooo


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: applebonkers]
    #574780 - 03/10/02 06:02 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Applebonkers!

Clonazepam is practically identical to Alprazolam in both FX & dosage... So will combine just as favorably... If you're of average sensitivity.

OTC Benzo's? Well: luckily... No.
Two posts down you see somebodys horrorstory. I'd like to stress AGAIN that Benzos carry risks of their own and ought to be considered "Hard Drugs", even tho most people can manage 'em much more easily than other HD's...
Hope to have helped...


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Offlinebadjessejames
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #574796 - 03/10/02 06:31 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I tried the valium + AMT experiment last night....
I ingested 30mgs of valium @1:00am....40mg AMT 2:30..
Around 3:30-4:00 I had the most wonderful trip I've ever experienced in my whole life...great visuals..huge sense of openness and well being...everything I love about MDMA only better.The clenching of my jaw and nausea were non-existent...I LOVED IT!...
The come down started much earlier for some reason @ around 9:00am..Very sluggish and a BAD headache....tired but couldn't sleep..
I took 2mg of clonazapam and went to dream land until 9:30pm tonight....One of the most beautiful experiences ever for me and my GF....she took the same amount of Valium but smoked the AMT and said it was wonderful as well.. PEACE~&~STAY~SAFE


--------------------

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goofing off together, but it turns out everybody else went and got rich
while I was sleeping." Mission Hill


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: bluetoad]
    #574807 - 03/10/02 06:53 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Bluetoad

If Benzo's were to snuff out the Higher Good of the Mushroom experience, I'd be highly against the Dual Combi.
But that isn't the case...

Different people react in various ways to Psychedelics. Alot of us get, well, mental & physical stress-symptoms when embarking on a Trip, especially in Psilocybin's first 1 1/2 hours.
This doesn't have to do with being unprepared or being uncertain about doing Shrooms: Alot of people get their neckhairs erected by the simple stresses that accompany the Experience and most so-called Bad Trips are caused by this phenomenon, not by encountering deep dynamic forces suddenly manifesting themselves. This basic "Stress of Arousal" can easily be countered by a very modest dose of a Benzo.

For me personally this Dual Combi is most important as a training tool: To get more familiar & at peace with the Territory & to see the difference between the Experiene with & without Benzostuff. Besides: it can be GREAT for turning on a Newbie.

Guys: I've been to Hellraiser-country a couple of times now. Eah time this happened it was a True Growth Experience which was highly valuable. But these were also the most difficult moments of my life.

When I opened a can of meat whilst stoned out of my skull some years ago, I managed to bungle it so that my blood gushed out of me. Should this have happened some more years ago, I would've panicked like shit. But due to me having been through Hell Psychedelically a calm & centeredness came over me, along with the thought: "Oh: you've seen much, much worse..." which in essence saved my life. ( lost over a half-pint of blood in minutes)
So I wouldn't want to prevent mr. Pinhead from wrapping me in barbed wire & kicking the living shit out of me. Besides: Benzo's won't even prevent that from happening.

But what Benzos DO in this combi is reduce the "simple stresses". This means that you'll be less likely to get an "Unpleasant" Trip for no good reason at all. It also means that should a Demon swoop down on you & shove a red-hot pitchfork up your ass, you'll be more likely to be able to face the situation (which you should do) & come out of it in one piece.
In short: The Shroom + Benzo combi is PSYCHOLOGICALLY SAFER to most (if not all) Trippers than Shrooming straight.

Sure: this thread may give a "control-freak" a false sense of security & make him trip when he shouldn't, but after having studied the combi both in books & in practice I've come to the conclusion that for most the Benefits outweigh the Downside. And personally: the "smoother ride" of this combi will NEVER cause me to abandon Straight Tripping. It's an addition, not a replacement for it.

In a nutshell:
"This Shield won't keep the Dragon away but WILL help you face It more succesfully, while reducing the impact of It's Fire..."
Shit.. Gotta quit: It's metaphor time once again!


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: badjessejames]
    #574816 - 03/10/02 07:07 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Greezo: I agree for the major part with what you wrote. I'd like to add:

BENZOS CAN COMPLETELY FUCK UP YOUR LIFE. NEVER USE MORE THAN THE EQUIVALENT OF 10MG VALIUM IN A WEEK'S TIME !!!!!

80mgs of Valium in one go? I'd say that's about the equivalent of downing a bottle of Smirnoff in one go, whilst I was talking of one or two shotglasses...


BadJesseJames:
Ga-reat you had such a wonderful time!!! But: Valium-30 is a Maximal Medical dose and could've make you puke for like 12 hours, if not worse. Think your headache was Benzo-induced. And then 2mg Clo on top of that (= truckload of Benzo) sheesh... watch out man...
40mg AMT?! You're quite a He-Man Tripper, BJJ!!
Thanx for the super info & I'm glad you & your GF had such a great time!!!


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OfflineUnknown
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Asante]
    #575055 - 03/10/02 03:45 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Ok,first off.I can't see why you'd take a benzo with a tryptamine/phenethylamine.If you are receiving such negative reactions,its probably a sign you should stay away from psychedelics in general.Second 10 mg valium equivelent is an extremely low dose for a benzo,I've taken 10 mgs of xanax in combination with opiates and alcohol and I was fine,no memory but other then that.Benzos have almost NO recreational value,besides maybe sleep induction.Third 40 mgs of AMT is not a big dose,I wouldn't do anything under 100 mgs,150 is my usual,perhaps I'm unusually insensitive to tryptamines,but thats what everyone I know also responds to as well.Now if your having "bad trips" that you can't seem to reconcile with,I suggest you stay away from drugs in general,and seek psychiatric help.


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OfflineUnknown
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Unknown]
    #575060 - 03/10/02 03:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

It seems that naivity and ignorance never ceases.People will believe anyone who acts in an authoratative and psuedo-informed manner.


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OfflineSplat
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Unknown]
    #575226 - 03/10/02 08:30 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I think your the ignorant one....


Why are you criticizing something that many people obviously enjoy, further, 40 mg of AMT is a perfectly respectable dose and 150 is potentialy harmful. If your so hardcore maybe you ought to just start taking more amt.


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You know what I always say....anything worth doing.... mmm....is worth overdoing!


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Offlinebluetoad
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Unknown]
    #575308 - 03/10/02 10:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Don't turn people away from psychedelics. The personal benefits can far outweigh conventional psychiatric help if used properly. Those of us who don't require guides need to offer ourselves to those who do- everyone is different and some may be more culurally conditioned than you are.


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Offlinebluetoad
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Asante]
    #575324 - 03/10/02 11:08 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hmm... Perhaps I'll try it, as I don't want to close any doors for myself. I just find it hard to believe that my bad trips are NOT caused by "deep dynamic forces suddenly manifesting themselves". Well, not to that extreme, but I don't want to dissolve any of my stresses with the help of anything external... I feel the more effort I have to put into it, the more I learn and can apply to my life. I guess it just comes down to the fact that I like to be as independent as possible, but not everyone is the same. I'll have to try it first before I can make a solid opinion, and I agree, it does sound like a nice combo for a first experience, especially if there's no guide present.


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OfflineUnknown
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: bluetoad]
    #575341 - 03/10/02 11:47 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Oh,I'm not saying psychiatric intervention helps anyone.If anything the FORCED psychiatric intevention that I've had to undergo since I was 7 has just given me a deep seated contempt people in general.But if you aren't taking the psychedelics to face these fears,and are instead avoiding them by using benzos,a psychiatric drug,then your oviously missing the point.Also just because somebody acts like they know what they're talking about,doesn't mean its true,verify your facts.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo's [Re: Unknown]
    #575581 - 03/11/02 07:43 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

My, my, UNKNOWN.....

That's quite a series of hostile replies... That you had to go through Psychiatric shit starting very early in your life's a REAL bummer man...

About the Demonic stuff: Hey: didn't I just write I derived great Benefit from that? I know for most people such experiences are "The shit that makes 'em quit", but it only encouraged me to pursue Psychedelics further. That you didn't get those kind of things... Good for you! That you react by saying I should go to the same guys that obviously fucked you over... Thats EVIL man...

So: 10mg Valium is peanuts? Why: it's a standard dose given to severely agitated/anxious people in hospital emergency rooms. A nurse aunt of mine told me she has seen several instances of strong people getting a Valium 5, nodding off to sleep, talking like drunk when aroused & then nodding off again. Sure: that's maybe one in a 1.000 but that has to be taken into account if one wants to give recommendations.
10mg Xanax + Opiates + Alcohol...
Since 10mg Alprazolam roughly equals 20 Roofies, the Benzo + Opioid combi is used in euthanasia & Alcohol potentiates both like shit... Did you dose up this Triple Combi to get smashed or to end it all? The Xa alone is quite enough to daterape a 300lbs powerlifter, so you're either sucking all this out of your thumb, got one fuck of a Tolerance to all three or simply are very insensitive to the effects of Benzos. Given the assumption that you also took quite substantial doses of Alc+Opi along with them boxes of Benzos I can safely say the vast majority here on the Shroomery wouldn't live to tell this tale.

And then those 150mgs of AMT. Am I in the wrong here, or are we both talking about Alpha-Methyl-Tryptamine? Good: you said you're "maybe" unusually insensitive to Tryptamine thingies... Take it from me: You Are.
Since AMT has a strong stimulant component to it & is partly metabolized to a Serotonin analogue (AM-5-HT) I'd say that dose would spell disaster for most who tried it. For some people 150mgs of AMT might be a full-body workout, and I mean this in the Grand-Mal Epileptic sense.

You see: if one makes general reccomendations one also has to take the 100lbs anorexic teenager into the equasion, unless one simply doesn't give a shit if someone who tries it makes the headlines...

I DO agree with you that Benzos have little recreational value. One shouldn't approch them as most do Marijuana, since they're basically Hard Drugs & a couple of glasses of Jack Daniels beats the shit out of the Benzo-buzz anyway...


So I sound "authoritative" to you? Thanx man! After having read this you probably think I'm a complete jerk anyway, so please avoid my future posts: they'll only annoy you. BTW: up to age 21 my life was a Living Hell too... I only wish you will one day soon find the Peace I myself found some years ago.

P.E.A.C.E !!!


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: bluetoad]
    #575591 - 03/11/02 08:07 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Hi BlueToad...

If you find adding something external to the Mushroom Experience might be a bad thing... I perfectly understand where you're coming from! You always should follow your Heart, especially in Psychedelics!

After my first BenzoTrip exposures I had to do some thorough Soul-Searching myself, to see if adding a Benzo was morally defensible & that it wasn't just a copout from the difficult stuff.
Well: since I'm now practically recommending it I can safely say the Conflict got resolved...

I can't speak for most of YOUR (or any individual's) Bad Trips, but generally it's simple things that lead to difficult trips, not Deep Dynamics. A typical pattern is something small happens, the Tripper moves into difficult regions & then the DD gets activated. This happens most often to newbies who can't navigate yet.
And don't alot of people get all sorts of physical shit in their first 1 1/2 hours? A BenzoTrip is a great way to find out if that nausea/ache/tremor/whatever is Physical or not...

The BenzoTrip is very much like 2CB, but obviously has a strong Shroom flavor.
Since it's a very different Trip altogether & most Trippers I know love to try new stuff, I'd say it would be interesting to try a few and then compare 'em with regular ones. But once again: BENZOS CARRY RISKS.


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OfflineUnknown
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Asante]
    #576030 - 03/11/02 06:31 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah the alcohol/opiate/xanax combo was about 5 shots of jagermeister,25 mgs hydrocodone,10 mgs xanax.As for AMT,yes we are talking about the same thing,and I don't really mind the stimulant effect,as I just avoid physical exertion on it,I've spent 8 hours talking on the phone while laying in my bed.If you try to exert yourself on AMT its just unnessasary pain.I once tried to ride my bike about a 1/2 mile round trip on 150 mgs,in 100 degree weather.When I finally got back I thought my fucking heart was gonna explode.I weigh 240,I'm 6' 5" so my doses may vary from those of you of significantly smaller size.Also yes forced psychiatric "treatment" meaning being forced into hospitals,forcibly drugged,strapped to beds with leatherstraps face down and injected with who knows what,tends to make a person rather hostile.Good day.


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OfflineUnknown
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Unknown]
    #576045 - 03/11/02 06:47 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Also,I happen to be naturally pretty tolerant to opiates too it seems.As last Tuesday I took 50 mgs of vicodin (hydrocodone) and snorted 2 bags of some pretty good heroin in the course of 5 hours.I was pretty high,but remained conscious the entire time,didn't even start to nod while I was sitting/standing up.I kept referring to things as "nummy" though.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: EVERYBODY READ THIS !!! Psychedelics & Benzo' [Re: Unknown]
    #576575 - 03/12/02 07:28 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

To UNKNOWN:

About the Psychiatric shit you had to endure: Being an active member of Amnesty International & having been trough bad shit myself I'd say: Not even if you were a psychopath they should've been allowed to do the stuff to you they did. I think this type of powerhorny dickheads should be strapped and jabbed with a syringefull of Haldol themselves just for it's educational value. What you discribe isn't doctoring: its major USSR shit...

It's a good thing you didn't empty out that bottle o' J?germeister, because the Opioid + Alcohol Combi is really very dangerous. Even if you dislike me to the point of wanting to force-feed me dogshit, please take my advice and be VERY careful with that combination, OK?

Xanax + Opioids + Alcohol... I think anyone willing to make that combination in named doses is really yearning for Peace of Mind. (take no offence, please!) Whenever I want to get highly relaxed by Psychotropics, I reach for the Cannabis. This tends to mellow most people out but I should add that for some it isn't so nice.
If you say: Like the stuff but it's WAY to mild for me, there's another way, a way that can make you Higher a bong ever could. The recipy I use and that for me beats the shit out of the oral Opium i took some 3-4 times:

1...Do not eat for 2-3 hours or longer if it was a heavy meal.
2...Put a pot on the stove & bring 1-2 cups water to a boil, then turn it off.
3...Crumble the desired amount of Grass/Hash into it and let it sit for 1/4 hour.
4...Swallow the solids with the tea. Sugar/sweetener makes it delicious.
5...When it gets desirably intense, lie in your bed in a room as dark as you can get it & try to relax fully, let the mind do it's stuff and try to avoid "active thinking".

How much Cannabis to use for this? You won't even need a Triple Beam or shit like that! If you know how high a joint/pipe of a given amount of same Grass will take you and you have indeed fasted you'll need to crumble about twice the amount that'll get you "there" if smoked. If your Grass is good and you've got scales: 0.3-1.5gr of it will likely be good or way too much for most.

A waste of gear? NO WAY! This'll likely last you 6-12 hours!!! The first 2-4h you'll rise, then there's 2-4h of nearly full force and you'll need an additional 2-4h to come down again. The bed & darkness + passiveness strategy will multiply the relaxation you'll likely get from it and will REALLY get you thinking. The insight can be just as good as with Shrooms, LSD & the like, but in the doses I use you shouldn't expect Angels & Demons swarming in flocks all over the place!

If you ain't a Pothead & dislike the stuff you really shouldn't do this or dose very carefully since 6-12h is an awful long time to dislike what you're feeling.
For me this has proven to be completely relaxing, nearly uniformly euphoric & it gave me tons of insight. It's completely different and (for most I know) highly preferable to smoking Pot the regular way. Oh, BTW: emptying out a bong & then retreating is very similar, but'll come on immediatly and will last only 1-4h.

Hope you (& others) found this an interesting read...


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Psychedelic Experience >> Trip Reports

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