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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: Jackattack]
    #5429966 - 03/22/06 01:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Jackattack said: Would it be a good idea to do this while camping instead? The only thing im afraid of though is being confronted by a Park Ranger while tripping on ayahausca.




I have drank the good tea twice while at a state park.  My opinion is that others campers make good company.  The rangers will circle the grounds, generally to make sure you are registered and to view your picnic table for signs of alcohol consumption.  The rangers in my state have those flashlight/pens that can detect blood alcohol levels within 300ft.

So basically, have rangers confronted you while camping at this place before? Can you camp close enough to the woods that you'd have some privacy to purge? 

There is a very slim chance (in my experience) that you will be coherent enough to speak with law enforcement while in the bardos.  Communication is a foriegn language.  I know this and it is a chance i take, there are other places i could camp, but there are hicks and large animals in my neck of the woods. I would rather take my chances with the rangers and the (relative) safety of a public area, its a trade-off.  Your best bet would be to have your friend remain sane and watch over you, and you in turn can give him/her a watching for the next session.  If you are interested, my journal has two reports, Caapi and Aya.

Let the good times roll :laugh:


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Offlineastabooty
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: schmutzen]
    #5431138 - 03/22/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

speaking isnt the easiest on aya.


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: astabooty]
    #5431260 - 03/22/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I would follow the dietary and other drug precautions fully.

Beyond that, it should be very difficult experience for the thread maker. If you are depressed, you will have some moments of terror if you take anywhere near the aboriginal dose, wich after much experience with ayahuasca is somewhere around 7 grams of mushrooms but with a kick of magic. (and it feels a like bit above 500 mics of lsd).
If you have anxiety issues start VERY low.

For those who have not tried it and even to those who did not prepare the brew correctly(massive dose of maois are needed), I would say that it is for sure the most intense hallucinogen I will ever know.
It is so very intense, and unlike mushrooms, the amount of visual and cognative disturbance is MUCH higher per unit of physical discomfort. That is why it is so very easy to dose way too high.
To the thread maker: the only way to do it is to do it right. SO read up about it thoroughly, but dont expect the erowid trip reports to give you the right information.

If you are any one bit like the typical westerner and plan to take the aboriginal dose, I would do it at home and have a phone near by.
You will know when you have no more fear, and can walk freely in the beauty of the night without feeling like your about to pass out on the sidewalk. The first time I took a somewhat typical but higher dose, I very easily could have given up too soon and honestly, could have dialed 911 at certain points. I knew I didnt need to do that, the healing power was just so strong that it tore me apart. I reconstituted after that peak and was free to move about during the most intense trip I can even imagine. Pure psychedelic extacy. I went on a 5 hour walk, and discovered that the world had changed for me. I was like a little kid, yet I was ready for any problem that could come at me even in my most distant future, including death.


Edited by stemmer (03/22/06 06:26 PM)


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OfflineJackattack
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: stemmer]
    #5431442 - 03/22/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

At this park I have never had a park ranger confront us except for the mourning after when they came to collect the fees.


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: Jackattack]
    #5431460 - 03/22/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

There is way too much negativity attacthed to the area i live in. being around a lake, or river or just staring into the fire while camping really sets my mind at ease.



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Edited by schmutzen (03/22/06 10:30 PM)


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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: schmutzen]
    #5431781 - 03/22/06 08:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

YOu either have not used yage or dont live alone.

Its more serious than some might assume, is all I was saying really.


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OfflineschmutzenS
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: stemmer]
    #5431856 - 03/22/06 09:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

No i don't live alone, sorry for not taking things too seriously but my warped sense of humour is what keeps me going.

I honestly was not that frightened from my first MHRB and Rue session, i found it to be a quite pleasant experience, the huge dose of Caapi was terrifying, the latter actually having a complete emotional breakdown (in a good way) i cried for almost three hours - it was the most purifying experience i ever had.

I truely hope JackAttack has an afterglow that lasts many moons, and finds the underlying roots to his depression - and learns healthy ways to cope - if thats what he's looking to find.


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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: schmutzen]
    #5431949 - 03/22/06 09:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"I truely hope JackAttack has an afterglow that lasts many moons, and finds the underlying roots to his depression - and learns healthy ways to cope - if thats what he's looking to find".

Me too


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OfflineImNtCrzy
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: stemmer]
    #5432053 - 03/22/06 09:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I have had ayahuausca ( more specifically mimosa-Hausa ) a few times. From my experiences I would recommend you pay particular attention to your diet a few days before and a few days after. Also pay great attention to your journey, treat it with great respect.

One thing I found remarkable about aya that wasn't like any other hallucinogen I have taken is it is so direct-able, more so than L or mushies for sure. The way it seems to work for me is you help it along with intention and actual questions or meditation and the aya helps you go deep into a dream state... I wouldn't go into this expecting a shroom like or L like effect, you won't get it and may not get the full benefits of aya. They say that every time you drink aya you continue your last dream, I have to agree.

All that being said it can be dangerous traipsing around the mind, especially if it is in a vulnerable state. Sure you can not watch your diet have a beer afterwords or anything but I wouldn't. I'm not assuming you are not taking this seriously but especially with healing you must put great intention on your healing, ask the aya a question and listen to your heart.


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: stemmer]
    #5432168 - 03/22/06 10:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Holy CRAP!

The older Shaman Don Julio in the article is the same Shaman that I drank with last July in Peru!!

The movie crew must have done the video later with another Shaman or they just didn't show Julio in the short scene on the NG site.  He's 87 years old and those guys were young.

I didn't go with that outfit though. I went with an individual that lives here in the states that takes a few trips to Iquitos every year to take people to have the Ceremony with Julio. He has drank with Don Julio for over twenty years and is like a part of his Family.  Hell, I can't remember offhand, but he may actually be part of his Family through marriage....

It was basically the same set up though...12 hour ride up the Amazon on a huge Riverboat, 45 mile ride up a smaller River in a Peque-Peque (motorized canoe),swimming with and catching/eating Piranha except we actually went to the village that Julio is originally from and stayed with the remainder of Julio's relatives that still live in the Jungle.  (He now lives in the city due to his age)

Needless to say, the accommodations weren't as posh as the ones described in the article,  :grin: but close (only one real toilet in the whole village and you had to haul you own water up from the River to flush it!) and the trip was astounding none-the-less!  It was the experience of my life!  We gathered the ingredients and sat around with Julio all day as he made the Ayahuasca and then drank that night.  Man, it's dark at night in the Amazon!!

I'm not sure if I should mention the guy's name here so I won't, but he still makes trips yearly and the cost is variable according to where he takes you, what all you do and how long you stay in the Jungle.  Feel free to PM me and I will gladly share with anyone the pertinent info on what was the most amazing experience that I've ever had.  Oh, he's also a professional journalist and has many cool "writings" on his website about his years in the Peruvian Cities/Jungles and his many experiences with Don Julio and The Vine...much like the one in the article in Stemmer's link.

Thanks for that link Stemmer! :thumbup:  You definitely made my day with that!  I'm all wound up to go again this Summer too!

Oh, I definitely wouldn't recommend drinking around anyone unless they are very experienced trippers or have familiarized themselves with the effects of drinking Ayahuasca!  You would probably scare them to death even if you were having a relatively smooth experience.  It can get very strange/scary watching someone go through this if you've never been around it before. Moaning, crying, purging...lifting your arms up to the Heavens in joy and thankfulness....:2cents:

I was "dreaming" for three hours and didn't dare try to stand or walk for an hour after I "woke up" in tears the first night I drank (purged many, many times), but the second night explained my first night's experience and I immediately woke up completely sober with a HUGE smile on my face! (Still didn't attempt walking for a while though!) :grin:  It's was incredible! 

Peace


--------------------
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"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: VirgilKane]
    #5432343 - 03/22/06 10:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think that kind of post is what this thread needed most. With a great quote at the end.

So true........

Those shamans know exactly what they are doing(for the most part).
If you want a cure for depression or other mental/physical problems, the shaman has more than a clue as to what dose you need. They also are always there for you when you are in trouble. The typical westerners phone equiped with 911 on speed dial doesnt even compare to the comfort of a shaman with a linguist sitting close to you.

With larger doses im sorry to say for all those looking for a serious legal trip, you need to know exactly what you are doing or you might regret it.
I used it alone for 2 days, (an all out brawl with the psyche). I did think I might die at some points. I, at my core thought I wouldnt come back, but knew what it meant to go so far, and expected to have some incredibly intense and spiritual after effects.
I will never use another hallucinogen again. And for those looking for visuals and a good time, I wouldnt recommend a good full dose of ayahuasca.
It will kick your ass.. The visuals themselves are enough to scare some people silly. If you dont know why you took the drug, you could have a real problem, and it will tell you why.


Edited by stemmer (03/22/06 11:10 PM)


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: stemmer]
    #5432468 - 03/22/06 11:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I fully agree from personal experience.  I would never do Ayahuasca alone knowing what I know now.  At least not the the Ayahuasca that I drank with the admixtures that were in it, but then again you could probably never get all those specific ingredients in the states anyway.

Here's a list of the ingredients that was in our mixture that was posted by our guide:

For that particular ayahuasca, Julio added Lupuna Negra--he describes it as the tree of light and dark, bringing those things to the mix; two pieces each of cumala and catawa bark, also from the light and dark sides--to help reach depths, and a piece of chuchuwasi, to add humor and a gentle touch to the mix.
Each piece of bark weighed roughly 4 ounces; Julio began with roughly 10 kilograms of cielo caapi and two kilograms of macho psychotria viridis--fresh leaves.
He cooks it down twice, then puts the liquids together and cooks that down until it's ready.



But yes, it fully and completely kicked my ass also!  I completely let go the first night and vowed to pay attention to the Shaman and his Icaro's the second night (that's why he's there!)in an effort to not go back...but somehow I knew that I would.  It was truly uncanny how he seemed to read my thoughts.  As I sat there the second night trying to fight the dreaming, telling myself that this was all in my head and nothing else, he would interject a chuckle in his singing.  I mean he did this exactly when the thought hit my mind...TWICE!!!  I kept telling myself that I would not lie down tonight!!  I would stay sitting upright facing Julio no matter what...shortly afterwards, without warning, I was on my stomach purging beginning my dream.  So much for that tactic!

It was very comforting to know that he was there to guide me and protect me because after all was said and done, some very weird stuff happened in that Jungle that night and it wasn't just in any one persons mind.  We all witnessed these things!  But we all felt safe also because Don Julio was there.

Ayahuasca can take you to some places that I would never want to tread on my own.  Then again, that's just me....YMMV.

I'm just really glad that that chuchuwasi was in there!! (maybe coulda used a little bigger piece though) :grin:


Edited by schapper (03/22/06 11:38 PM)


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: VirgilKane]
    #5432533 - 03/22/06 11:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I have never had much of a feeling of the physical rejection of ayahuasca. I have never puked(once when using caapi, the only time I used caapi). Then again, I have always used the maois and the dmt plants as a process rather than one brew. To avoid sickness involves much knowledge. And to avoid the purge makes it last far longer, although it is quite intense even when you puke it all out after 1.5-2.5 hours worth of having it in your system.


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: stemmer]
    #5432571 - 03/22/06 11:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

One thing that was really odd to me is that I never felt "sick".

The first night when I purged so much it was always in conjunction with a negative vision that would appear and these were all based on my inner feelings/emotions. These would appear and when I could no longer stand them, I would purge and the picture would change. The longer and stronger they stayed, the more I purged.

The second night I never felt it coming at all. It just seemed to happen as a way to get my scared, stubborn ass to lie down and dream!

Shit, I never made it out of "my house" in those sessions...I had too much housecleaning to do to experience what was really "out there"....still do.


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
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"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: VirgilKane]
    #5432578 - 03/22/06 11:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thats a good way to explain it. Im sure you knew why you were puking......


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: stemmer]
    #5432597 - 03/23/06 12:00 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, I was just hoping that no one else did!

When I woke up I just automatically assumed that everyone who was there knew exactly what I had just experienced...that they had seen all the shit too. It was my whole world during it. Very, very real experience.

Still is a year later.


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: VirgilKane]
    #5432605 - 03/23/06 12:06 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Apparently some people will know. But thats a whole nother story.

Im with you on that one.

The shaman knows more than he eludes to at first. If he takes the drug along with you, it wouldnt be too weird for him to know your reactions, almost perfectly. He might not know the content but he can help you deal with it. What you just said about no-one else knowing is HUGE. Thats where the magic resides. Group thought, universal thought.

Many people firmly believe that the shaman knows more about your trip than seems apparent. When you need help with a higher dose of ayahuasca this can become more than just apparent.


Edited by stemmer (03/23/06 12:09 AM)


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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: kaniz]
    #5432645 - 03/23/06 12:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kaniz said:
But, I've found that most religions tend to share alot of the same basic ideas and belifs, just with a different cultural lense putting their own spin on them.

I tend to think : I have a belief in something greater than myself, but not a belief in the corruption of man, and sadly ? many religions have fallen victim to the corruption of man and the struggle for power.




I honestly could not agree more with you on this.


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: stemmer]
    #5432674 - 03/23/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

But thats a whole nother story.





LOL! Roger that!

Hell he knew, I could barely look him in the eye the next day!

Although he didn't drink with us, our guide told us that after 50 years of drinking, all Julio had to do now was just get in the vicinity of the vine and he would get drunk from it. He was so old and spoke another language that I couldn't tell the difference, but with him sitting there cooking it all day, he must have been wasted.

I came around the corner of the hut he was staying in shortly after waking up after the first night, looked up, saw him sitting there and almost shit my pants! He knew...

Although, our guide, who did drink and has so for over twenty years and assists in the Ceremony but won't admit it, slipped up when we were talking back in town after the Ceremony. A few of us were in his room doing Sapo and I witnessed him making small sucking motions with his mouth from across the room as someone would go under the effects of the toxin.

I asked him what he was doing and he told me that it helps the person because it clears away the negative things that emerge from the person as they are under. He said "yeah, on that first night when you were having such a hard time I was catching all kinds of shit coming out of you while doing this" I guess he saw a worried look in my eyes and quickly said "I mean I didn't actually see what it was you were going through I could tell that it was some rough shit."

Uh huh, sure.

I didn't believe for one minute that he didn't see what I went through.

Although I was embarrassed, I was sure glad that they were all there working hard to take care of me.


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


Edited by schapper (03/23/06 12:46 AM)


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Re: Should I do Ayahuasca? [Re: VirgilKane]
    #5433152 - 03/23/06 07:15 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)



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