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Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate, Injection Grain Bag   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Mix

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OfflineRedkiller
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air exchange?
    #5425554 - 03/21/06 02:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

During colonization is there supposed to be any air exchange or does it need to be sealed shut? :sad:


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OfflineTeon
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Re: air exchange? [Re: Redkiller]
    #5425559 - 03/21/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Go FAQ yourself!


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Offlinewiggles
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Re: air exchange? [Re: Teon]
    #5425569 - 03/21/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The best way for colonization to work: take the jars (I'm assuming you're using a pf-tek), toss them in a dark closet that's about 70-80 degrees. Forget about them for 2 weeks. Come back, and they should be perfect.

FAE is necessary to signal the mycelium that they've reached the outside of the substrate, and it helps start fruiting. For the most part you can ignore colonizing jars, just keep an eye out for discoloration.

There should be plenty in the teks if you poke your head around. Look here for a start:
http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/23019


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You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
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Edited by wiggles (03/21/06 02:31 PM)


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OfflineRedkiller
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Re: air exchange? [Re: wiggles]
    #5425586 - 03/21/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

wiggles said:
The best way for colonization to work: take the jars (I'm assuming you're using a pf-tek), toss them in a dark closet that's about 70-80 degrees. Forget about them for 2 weeks. Come back, and they should be perfect.

FAE is necessary to signal the mycelium that they've reached the outside of the substrate, and it helps start fruiting. For the most part you can ignore colonizing jars, just keep an eye out for discoloration.

There should be plenty in the teks if you poke your head around.




I know what to do at that part, im just wondering if the jars should be air tight or should there be a hole left uncovered or something.


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Offlinewiggles
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Re: air exchange? [Re: Redkiller]
    #5425598 - 03/21/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Ahh ok, I normally poke holes in the lid of the jar if I'm using jars. Then, i take 1 or 2 coffee filters per jar, and dab them with rubbing alcohol using a cotton ball, just to be safe. Then cover the jar with the coffee filters, and screw the lid on. This way there is still gas exchange that can take place, but you have some extra layers of protection against contams.

You need some way for the CO2 to vent out of the jars or you could suffocate the mycelium at worst, or more likely just slow down the growth a LOT.


--------------------


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InvisibleCitric
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Re: air exchange? [Re: wiggles]
    #5425658 - 03/21/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

If you are just using PF jars. The dry verm is all that you should need. Dont keep tape over the holes, let them breath. If you keep it on they will stall.

You dont want exchange soto speak, because that initiates fruiting. You just want them to be able to breath. After there about 80%, flip them over.


If your doing whole grains, a tyvek/polyfill filter is all you need. You can use a coffee filter also as a precaution. I usually put a bandaid or breathable tape over my innoc area after noccin.


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OfflineRedkiller
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Re: air exchange? [Re: wiggles]
    #5425677 - 03/21/06 02:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks a lot sir. btw nice avatar.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: air exchange? [Re: Redkiller]
    #5426282 - 03/21/06 05:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Fresh air exchange (FAE) no, Gas exchange yes. The difference?

Gas exchange: The ability to release builtup gases resulting from the myc's metabolic activity (consuming substrate). A result of this inability to release these gas creates EXCESS myc piss which BTW is a normal process (myc piss) but an excess is not, it can easily stall a cake. (do not lick your cakes or leave your holes taped) :wink:

FAE (fresh air exchange) is the lowering of the co2 concentration through the introduction of fresh air plain and simple. A good fresh air exchange includes the stagnated moisture pockets of the casing surface (microclimate).


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
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Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Invisiblecappa
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Re: air exchange? [Re: hyphae]
    #5426460 - 03/21/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Now that's the most realistic explaination I've ever heard.
CO2 coming out of half full jars with a filtered hole in the top is just a rediculous notion. But other, lighter gases could easily escape!
I've had a hunch that it has as much to do with getting in new gases for the myc to use in metabolization as much as any gases getting out.
All speculation of course and far too much of a pain in the ass to test properly. I think I'll just go with your explaination if ever asked.  :smile:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: air exchange? [Re: cappa]
    #5426514 - 03/21/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cappa said:
CO2 coming out of half full jars with a filtered hole in the top is just a rediculous notion. But other, lighter gases could easily escape!





Actually, there's nothing ridiculous about it.

In a small jar, the weight of the CO2 is not relevant. The CO2 will not sit in a nice neat layer like sand over the substrate. The internal heat produced by the mycelium will cause circulation in the jars which will help with the required gas exchange, provided you have a means of escape for the gasses. As said, leave the holes in the jar lids untaped.
RR


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OfflineRedkiller
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Re: air exchange? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5426687 - 03/21/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

cappa said:
CO2 coming out of half full jars with a filtered hole in the top is just a rediculous notion. But other, lighter gases could easily escape!




..........  As said, leave the holes in the jar lids untaped.
RR




This faq says differently though.... http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/23593

Quote:

After inoculation of the jars, tighten the lid bands and retape the needle holes.



:confused: faq needs a change?


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Edited by Redkiller (03/21/06 06:26 PM)


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Invisiblecappa
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Re: air exchange? [Re: Redkiller]
    #5426794 - 03/21/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, yes, the teks and alot of experts say otherwise. RogerRabbit apparently as well as others. I still think it's a far stretch. I've worked alot with CO2 in the past and it's amazing. It will sit in a shallow crevice of a surface even when air is moving past that surface. I've seen it myself a thousand times after filling paintball marker CO2 bottles..
The heat causing turbid air seems like it could have some value, but does the heat generate enough of an 'updraft' to pick up the CO2 and eject it through a filtered port? Or is the temp difference between the inside a jar and outside of a jar(in an incubator) enough to generate the kind of force to pick up and move around a very heavy gas? Totally possible if the force is there! I just doubt that the force available is enough.

I'm not saying don't use a gas exchange!! In fact my side-by-side tests showed that un-ported jars were only 10% finished by the time the ported jars were finished!

I'm just arguing that the reason for this is not 'ejection of CO2' from the jars. I tend to think it has more to do with bringing in new gases that may 'dilute' the CO2 while ejecting lighter gases. That just seems far more likely to me.

This is an argument over the 'why' not the 'how'. You experts have established the 'how' already and we all respect and appreciate it!


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Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't.
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Offlinehyphae
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Re: air exchange? [Re: cappa]
    #5428795 - 03/22/06 06:48 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Colonizing jars require high co2 levels during colonization but the pressure needs to be released that all it's as simple as that. The FAQ's do need to be changed for the betterment of the people, "don't retape the holes!!!!".


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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