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OfflineFantazee
journeyman
Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 94
Loc: New England
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Azures Indoors
    #542411 - 02/06/02 01:27 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry for this...

I searched and was unable to find anyone who has successfully cultivated azures indoors...Anyone out there done this???

I'm looking for pointers!!!


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Azures Indoors [Re: Fantazee]
    #542667 - 02/06/02 05:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Last time I was in Amsterdam I talked with a grower that claimed he had gotten Azures to grow indoors. It was in early April of last year and he had fresh fruit to share, which makes it hard to doubt him. He said it took several years to get the methods down and a good strain and would not tell me more or share the race. I didn't have the proper tools with me at the time to try and make a clone from the fruitbody, plus I was unsure of what customs would think. I can't blame him for being quiet as he was supplying most of the smart shops with their Azures and didn't want competition. I also can't remember his name, but he was dropping off the days stock at the little mushroom smart shop next to Ricks coffee shop.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSThomas
enthusiast
Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 251
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Azures Indoors [Re: Seuss]
    #542738 - 02/06/02 06:36 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Allthough I have not attempted it yet, it should be possible. I was thinking of doing it using a modified oyster mushroom tek. Oysters are colder wood loving mushrooms too...so it should work.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Azures Indoors [Re: SThomas]
    #542766 - 02/06/02 07:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think it is as easy as that. From what I understand of the problem, the Azures have a synergistic relationship with some unidentified organism(s). Amanitas are the same way... if they don't have a pine tree nearby they aren't gonna fruit. I have read several indoor Azure teks which all sounded great, but ended up being all theory which the authors had never tried. I have yet to see pics of Azures growing indoors. I don't mean to shoot your idea down, but I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you. It is pretty easy to grow Azure-mycelium on wood chips. Lots of people do this to use for seed in an outdoor bed. It is a completely different story trying to get the same mycelium to produce a fruitbody indoors.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinebadmonk
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Azures Indoors [Re: Seuss]
    #542778 - 02/06/02 07:22 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I would like some info on this as well....it seems a bit odd to me that no one has been able to fruit them indoors, considering the years upon years of collective experience in cultivation


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Offlinetoo_many_weirdos
it's a jungle inhere
Registered: 12/01/01
Posts: 517
Loc: Ithaca, NY
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Re: Azures Indoors [Re: Seuss]
    #542784 - 02/06/02 07:27 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

couldn't you use soil from outside and make an "indoor bed"? would not this soil contain the same microorganisms?


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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Azures Indoors [Re: too_many_weirdos]
    #542972 - 02/06/02 11:01 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

My personal theory in that temperature plays a very important role in the fruiting of Psi. Azures.

I have read many teks that tried to keep their casings/cakes in a refigerator and supply moisture and fresh air with a cool mist. This keeps the mycellium at the same temperature as the air.

I personally think that the key is to keep the mycellium and the air at different temperatures. In nature the ground temperature is not normally the same as the air temperature, so why would you keep your mycellium in a refridge so that it is the same at the air temp.

Temperature is important in fruiting Psi. cubenses so it should also be just as important in fruiting Psi. Azures.


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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Invisibledurban_poison
myco contractor
Registered: 09/19/01
Posts: 2,415
Re: Azures Indoors [Re: Fantazee]
    #542987 - 02/06/02 11:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

so if I cut holes to fit trays in the top of a deep freezer and put it on the lowest setting in a basement so the air temp stays at 50F and the base at 35-40F would that work or do I have it assbackwards?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Azures Indoors [Re: durban_poison]
    #542991 - 02/06/02 11:17 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Most likely you would be buying a new compressor for your deep freeze. -grin-


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OfflineSThomas
enthusiast
Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 251
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Azures Indoors [Re: Seuss]
    #543069 - 02/07/02 12:27 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.kitchenculturekit.com/Mushroom/index.htm

I don't see why this tek would not work for azures or any other cold/wood loving species, have not tried it yet, but I am currently growing the mycelium on woodchips and cardboard...and it seems to work well so far. They are slower growing than cubs...but so far so good.


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Anonymous

Re: Azures Indoors [Re: Seuss]
    #543166 - 02/07/02 01:58 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Sporeworks was able to get four flushes of Buttons with just a peat based casing. Their buttons just never were able to develope into full grown mushrooms. This would suggest the problem is an Air exchange/ evaporation rate problem. At the temperatures required for fruiting, the maturation phase is 10-20 days long.

Temps in the 50'sF, humidity in the 90% range, and fresh air exchanges.
10-14 days of pinning and 10-20 days of maturation.

HUMIDITY has a valid theory with the substrate/Air Temp gradient. Just a couple degree difference could lower the humidity enough in the air to cause that partial gradient in water vapor needed to mature the shrooms. Most people have been thinking in terms of lowering the humidity with air exchange. But just a temperature gradient would be sufficient to drop it enough.

According to GGMM by Stametes the gradient needed for maturation is less then that for most shrooms maturation. Taken for granted that Azures would be consistent with cyanescens requirements. 95-100% pinning and 90-95% maturation.

How would you go about maintaining a colder substrate then air temp for 10-20 days? Maybe some kind of diurnal Temperature fluctuation. 12 hours at 55 degrees and 12 hours at 50 degrees, every day.

HUMIDITY you might have the answer!!!!!!!


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OfflineFantazee
journeyman
Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 94
Loc: New England
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Azures Indoors [Re: ]
    #543445 - 02/07/02 10:06 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

How 'bout using a plastic cooler (i.e. Igloo Brand) as your terrarium, That way you cold use those frozen jelly packs under your casing container...they would stay cold for hours, adding a chill to your casing without drastically changing the air temp....

It's a stretch, but I'm just brainstorming...


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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Azures Indoors [Re: ]
    #544784 - 02/08/02 01:33 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Mabey I went overboard on this one, but this is the best way that I could think of to get the desired environmental conditions. A setup like this would be neither cheap nor easy. You will need 2 Compact Cube Refrigerator $100 new approximately $60 used each (mabey less). You will also need a cool mist humidifier, tubing, thermometers, Styrofoam insulation, pump, ect.

One of the mini-fridges would be set to the temperature you want the casings to be maintained at. This will have a container of water with a pump in it, pumping water to the lower half of the grow chamber through tubing (the more tubing the better). The water should maintain the desired temperature.
The other mini-fridge will have the cool mist humidifier in it. It will be set to the temperature that you want the air conditions to be maintained at. Some sort of one way valve should be used so the cool mist will get air when it is on and shut when it is off, so the refigerator can maintain the correct temperature.

The casings should be made in aluminum foil pie tins. As much of the tin as possible should be exposed to the lower half of the terraium. There should be insulation between the two layers.
The entire grow chamber should be made out of styrofoam insulation. The kind that is used to insulate houses, it is blue or pink about a inch think and you can get a huge sheet of it for $10. It is also easy to work with and very sturdy (It is not the same as styrofoam coolers).

I would estimate a project like this would range from $150-$200 if you can get used stuff and $300+ if you buy everything new.



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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Offliner05c03
The Slug Scourge
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 383
Loc: Indiana, US
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Azures Indoors [Re: Seuss]
    #545612 - 02/09/02 10:10 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Just for clarification P. azures is not like the A. muscaria. A. muscaria requires relationships with confier tree roots, like chanterelles and truffles. Nothing like this exists with P. azures. P. azures is occasionally successfully grown in door. It is just difficult compared to most.


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InvisibleNighted

Registered: 11/10/01
Posts: 564
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: Azures Indoors [Re: durban_poison]
    #545963 - 02/09/02 06:45 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You could have it modified by a refridgeration technician...someone I know has done it with a wine cooler...why a wine cooler you ask? Because of the clear glass door........



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Freedom defined is freedom denied.


Edited by Nighted (02/09/02 07:04 PM)


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