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OfflineBombDiggity
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Registered: 03/20/06
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Humans and animals
    #5423706 - 03/20/06 10:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I have been reading posts and have heard a lot of people compare humans to animals on a sexual level. I have read peoples posts saying that animals have sex and we are just an animal too and it is natural and we should be doing it to reproduce just like them. But i see something very wrong with this. There are 2 things wrong with this. Do we as people see ourselfs equal to animals. We are either bringing animals up to our level which i am sure they are not or we are bringing ourselves down to animals levels.

I definately belive humans have a greater purpose than animals and that there are some things that make this very clear. Free will being one of them. For example if a zebra sees a cheetah it will naturally run in feer if a human sees a cheetah although or instinct may tell us to run we can use our free will and mind to say "no dont run it is better to pick up the gun over there and shoot it."

The point i am trying to make is that humans are in no way equal to animals and we are definatley very different from them.

what do you think?


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Offlinepeace_n_love
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: BombDiggity]
    #5423737 - 03/20/06 10:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Well of course humans are different. Every other animal is just reacting to the situation they're in wheareas humans have a choice in everything that we do.

Peacefulness.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: BombDiggity]
    #5423805 - 03/20/06 10:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I feel that humans are animals, but I don't think our behavior should be determined by other animals behaviors. The major difference between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom is our mind. Our brain is much more complex than even our closest relatives, Chimps (although, you'd be surprised how much a Chimp can learn), and consequentially so is our behavior.

Trying to justify something like rape on the basis that rape is common in the Animal kingdom is a poor argument (and ain't gonna hold up in the courts.)


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OfflineGrok
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5424192 - 03/21/06 12:14 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think you are full of shit personally.

We are animals. I'm sure any animal would laugh its ass off if you tried convincing it we weren't animals. The difference is in our minds (as mentioned), the language we use to communicate with ourselves and others, and how we are brought up in societies. Feral children behave like animals, some have even been raised by animals.

Don't be ignorant. Yeah, we are the top of the food chain right now, but there was life a long time before there were human beings. We're not that different or important. Unfortunately it is impossible for us to see this due to our absolute bias - we can only perceive the world through the eyes of a human. I'm sure it looks a lot different to other animals.

Your zebra example is horrible. A zebra runs from a cheetah so it can survive. It would be counter productive for a zebra to do think about other ways around the problem, simply because there are none, and the zebras that know this are the ones that run fast and live and produce offspring that do the same. We are masters at manipulating our environments (building guns to repel cheetahs before they eat us for example). No other animal has such options. We are over evolved IMO.

If you think humans have some great purpose, why are we trashing the planet we live on? Why do we blow up huge groups of other people on a daily basis? Why do we kill other animals that we aren't going to eat or use resourcefully? In a lot of ways, I have more respect for animals (and plants) than I do many other humans. They take what they need, give back what they take when they die, and don't create a world that is increasingly uninhabitable for other forms of life. I remember a quote something like "Nature's greatest mistake was man". Damn true if you ask me.

Not that it matters really. One day our Sun will go red giant and everything will burn up anyway, to be recycled indefinatly.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal


Edited by cilosyb (03/21/06 12:21 AM)


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: BombDiggity]
    #5424521 - 03/21/06 08:21 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Humans are animals who feel that we are better than all animals, in many cases including each other. We feel that we should and do own the world. We think we're the final stage in evolution. Sorry to say, but we'll never make it to see the next stage in evolution, and everything else will probably be taken down with us.

If you haven't read it before, check out Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


Edited by demius (03/21/06 08:22 AM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: Grok]
    #5424815 - 03/21/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cilosyb said:
I think you are full of shit personally.





I think you're wrong.
What he wanted to say is that we should try and evolve more in a spiritual way. And be more aware of what we could do if we really wanted. To get the best of us. And there's nothing wrong with it. On the contrary, I know us, humans, are able to do things we're not even dreaming of.
So we should start treating ourselves with much more respect and understanding.
I'm not really saying that we are necessary superior to animals, cause we can't communicate with them in order to know what's on their minds. Cause I think they too can be able too feel and evolve and have free will.
But we too need to evolve. And stop behaving so stupid like we do sometimes.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: BombDiggity]
    #5424999 - 03/21/06 12:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

On the physical level we are animals. Extremely intelligent animals, but animals nonetheless. We have complex societies, which is a likely reason why we have such big brains. In general, social animals tend to be more intelligent than solitary ones. That's why lions are the smartest cats and baboons are the smartest monkeys.

Now, as for spirituality, I think that everything has a spiritual nature. It's just that we are apparently the only ones who have brains complex enough to realize it. And as for sex, we are not the only animals that have sex for pleasure. Regarding the fact that we can overcome our natural instinct of fight or flight, this was simply an evolutionary adaptation, and does not make us any more than an animal. It just means we are intelligent animals. It is an adaptation that allowed us to tame fire, which was largely responsible for us being here today.

We are remarkable animals, but animals nonetheless.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: BombDiggity]
    #5425405 - 03/21/06 01:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BombDiggity said:
Do we as people see ourselfs equal to animals. We are either bringing animals up to our level which i am sure they are not or we are bringing ourselves down to animals levels.

I definately belive humans have a greater purpose than animals and that there are some things that make this very clear.






Better? up and down to levels?

I think the only advantage (if you want to call it that) that humans have over all other species is our ability to incorporate illusory concepts like morality, worth, superior/inferior into their perception of reality which in turn affects their actions/reactions.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: BombDiggity]
    #5425735 - 03/21/06 03:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

There are two main interpretations for 'subdueing'.

One: to egoistically exploit and commit slavery in the sense of non-appendant property
Two: Protect for utilizing its inherent value to everyone in a symbiotic way, beeing part of

That describes the opposing view of mankind upon the rest of nature.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: BombDiggity]
    #5425850 - 03/21/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

In Norwegian.. Humans are "patte?dyr" ... [{meaning; Humans are "Mammalia"/(Mammal's) .. }]

and "dyr" = "animal" ..

thus, in/by Norwegian language, we are ALL animals..

no wonder 'all Norwegians' are crazy, eh?

Just though I could mention it! :laugh:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (03/21/06 03:41 PM)


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Offlinepeace_n_love
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: Gomp]
    #5426426 - 03/21/06 05:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

That an interesting thing

In Norwegian.. Humans are "patte?dyr" ... [{meaning; Humans are "Mammalia"/(Mammal's) .. }]

and "dyr" = "animal" ..

It makes you wonder if Norwegians due to their language have been somewhat brought up to think that humans are more alike animals than say in Canada or the USA where the difference between the words human and animal is much different. I wonder how much language affects our perceptions and opinions.

Peacefulness.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: peace_n_love]
    #5426465 - 03/21/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

:laugh::thumbup:


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OfflineAmber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand

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Re: Humans and animals [Re: BombDiggity]
    #5427434 - 03/21/06 08:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Puttings humans above other animals is wrong. Instead of explaining I'll just point you to a term that perhaps you have never heard of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism

200 years ago many believed 'the negro' to be lesser animals, to be below the white man. I think some day we will look back on the common opinion towards who we now consider 'animals', and feel just as ashamed to be associated with such evil.


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OfflineGrok
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #5429954 - 03/22/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

^I agree.

It is so much easier to focus on the differences between living things than the similarities. Exactly why this is always baffels me. Maybe because shared traits aren't interesting or something. All living things are made of cells which are governed by DNA which works in such similar ways between all cells that it is mind blowing when you begin to understand it.

Believeing you have a higher purpose than other groups of cells which function nearly identically to your own is...just plain ignorant. There is no doubt that we are incredibly specialized, and are capable of what I think is the most complex phenomena in existence - thought.

I think just the fact that we all share life during the same time(another complex phenomena of our minds) on the same beautiful (yet another complex phenomena of our perception) sphere of mass is...fuck if I know, utterly profound cubed?


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Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: Grok]
    #5431802 - 03/22/06 08:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silos said:
Believing you have a higher purpose than other groups of cells which function nearly identically to your own is...just plain ignorant. There is no doubt that we are incredibly specialized, and are capable of what I think is the most complex phenomena in existence - thought.




Yes but still, believing that we have a higher purpose than our actual one could do wonders.
And yes, animals are not inferior to us, but still, the meaning of that word degraded, cause when people use it they suggest some nasty things. Comparing ourselves with that description harms us.
I think that is what it comes to. Not necessarily the animals, but it's meaning as people see it.
And if we do sustain that we are no better than animals considering that, we're kind of lost because we are the ones that hold ourselves back.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineJaimie
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5431847 - 03/22/06 09:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I definately believe humans have a greater purpose than animals and that there are some things that make this very clear. Free will being one of them.




I think free will is a very poorly defined concept, so this 'greater purpose' doesn't seem very clear to me. Do you have any other examples of this that make this clear to you?


I think a zebra runs because it is innocent and a human picks up a gun because it is arrogant. 


in addition :heart:Norwegians:heart:
:grin:


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Humans and animals [Re: BombDiggity]
    #5432519 - 03/22/06 11:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The only way to seperate ourselves from other animals is to state things we can do that animals can't. We can make paper airplanes, other animals can't. Who can say what a dog is thinking as it lies there stareing into the distance? It's easy to assume that since animals can't communicate with us directly, there's not much going on outside of instinctive behaviour. As the dog is lying there conserving energy, with all survival conditions met, is nothing at all happening in it's mind? Just a blank void? When a dog is playing, is it simply keeping it's senses sharp? And if so, what makes us any different? Perhaps dogs think about god, who can say they don't?

Here's two storys I'll relate, the first one was my direct experience. Years ago I was sitting on the deck of a pool at my friends house. I was in one of those cheap white plastic chairs, sipping a drink when I notice a small spider, about the size of a pea, making it's way by. For whatever reason, I picked up a slender pecan leaf and poked it. It jumped back and stopped moving. I poked at it again, but this time I witnessed the spider try to bite the leaf. I poked at it a third time, and to my amazement, it jumped onto the leaf and began to run up it twards my hand. I dropped the leaf, and decided to leave the spider alone. After sitting there for a few moments, the spider began to move in the direction it was originally going, and my foot was in it's path. So, I pick my foot up and place it on the opposite side of the spider about a foot away from it. I got another suprise. The spider turned around and started moving twards my foot. So I picked my foot up again and placed it back on the other side... spider turns around and begins to move twards my foot. At this point I was weirded out and thought of killing it, but spared it's life, got up, and went inside. It was about ten minutes later that I came back out to the pool. I make my way to the deck and was about to sit down when I notice the spider sitting on the arm of the chair I was in! The damn thing had climbed the chair and was either looking for me, or was waiting for my return. I lean forward and the little creature was facing me, front legs up in the air.

Now, this was a garden spider, it could have bit me 1000 times and I would have lived. Not only that, but it seems counter productive to waste energy fighting something ten thousand times your size when it would have been much safer and easier to run, or at the very least, it might have stood it's ground, not knowing what it was dealing with. But that spider knew there was something behind the leaf, it knew my foot was part of what was holding the leaf, it wanted revenge and it had enough memory to stay mad for 10 minutes. I thought that was quite incredeble for a tiny little spider.

A friend recounted a story he said caused an epiphany. I can't relate it in the same manner he did, and even if I could, he had trouble relating the actual meaning of the event. He was working one day and pulled off to the side of the road to finish some paperwork from his last job (he's an HVAC service man). As he's sitting there, he notices a squirrel on the edge of the road watching cars go by. This in itself was odd enough, but after the road cleared, the squirrel made it's way out to the very center of the road and layed down there flat on it's belly and simply remained still. Soon enough, more cars come, and the squirrel remains still as they whiz by inches from it's body. My friend sat and watched as cars went by for several minutes, the squirrel never moved. Finally a truck swerved and hit the squirrel, it sprang up, probably with a broken back and darted off into the brush. My friend said he thought the squirrel was trying to kill itself, and that notion had somehow created a deep meaning for him.

Perhaps the squrrel did want to die, perhaps it was protesting the road, perhaps it was getting some kicks like a free climber, who knows. I do know it wasn't trying to bury nuts...

If we aren't animals, neither are animals.  :wink:

Rahz


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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