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Offlinestemmer
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Re: WTF is "clean" acid supose to mean? [Re: kaniz]
    #5423227 - 03/20/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I did mean 52. SOmething about writing lsd-25 so many times.

hmm..... just switch the letters with other letters and turn the the 25 around. Thats kinda cool.



Edited by stemmer (03/20/06 08:53 PM)


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Invisiblekaniz
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Re: WTF is "clean" acid supose to mean? [Re: stemmer]
    #5423326 - 03/20/06 08:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Well, I dont think 'impure' LSD would contain ALD-52. As if I recall correctly, you needed LSD to begin with to produce ALD-52.

There is a mention on it in the TiHKAL entry on LSD

Quote:


ALD-52. 1-Acetyl-N,N-diethyllysergamide. This material has been explored in the 50-175 microgram range and there are a number of human trials reported, with varying conclusions. One found that there was less visual distortion than with LSD and it seems to produce less anxiety and was somewhat less potent than LSD. Another report claimed it was more effective in increasing blood pressure. Yet another could not tell them apart. ALD-52 just may have been the drug that was sold as "Orange Sunshine" during the "Summer of Love" in the late '60's. Or "Orange Sunshine" may have been, really, LSD. This was the focus of a fascinating trial where two defendants were accused of distributing LSD, whereas they claimed that it was ALD-52 which was not an illegal drug. The prosecution claimed that as it hydrolyses readily to LSD, for all intents and purposes it was LSD, and anyway, you had to go through the illegal LSD to get to ALD-52 by any of the known chemical syntheses. The defendants were found guilty. And yet, I do not know who has actually measured the speed or ease of that reaction. If ALD-52 hydrolyses so easily to LSD, and the body is indeed a hydrolytic instrument, then these two drugs should be absolutely equivalent in every particular, This is the ergot equivalent of the psilocybin to psilocin argument, except this is an acetamide rather than a phosphate ester.





So from the sounds of it - you needed LSD to produce ALD-52, and the people who did that were doing as such to try and say "Hey, its not LSD, so its legal to produce and sell" -- maybe thus one of the things which lead to the analog laws we have today?

And another mention on erowid suggests that studies done comparing the brain waves of LSD vs ALD, shows that LSD produced brainwaves that lead towards anxiety and concentration, while ALD produced brain waves in line with a more relaxed mental state.

So, even if ALD was on the streets being sold as LSD, or appeard as impurities in LSD - it sounds like it would be a more relaxing high than LSD and not a 'dirty' high?

All around - I am not disagreeing with you. I just question if ALD-52 is the right substance that you are thinking about.


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: WTF is "clean" acid supose to mean? [Re: kaniz]
    #5423340 - 03/20/06 08:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Right ALD-52 was just an example. I am well aware that it takes lsd to make ald-52. Its not one of the biproducts or adulterates I was talking about. Its a very interesting drug on its own.
You make me wish I had not used it to exemplify lsd like drugs.

Just from personal experience I have had quite a few blotters that were certainly not rc's, and acted just like LSD. They were heavy on the body load, and were weak. They resembled LSA like substances to a T. Like an extreemely effective version of HBWR or morning glories. I know what I have felt, and there is much info out there to prove why I have felt this way about 20-30% of my 80 trips on acid. I have even had acid that was by far the best, not because it was more potent, but it was LSD for sure, and better than the rest.
Go figure that was farm grade made in europe, and put into gels in the US. I knew the full background on this stuff and I have possibly had some of the best blotters, but this stuff just seemed like the real thing. Like the perfects molecule in its entirety with no unwanted biproducts, and certainly no seperate substances.
It was perfect lsd and even after 80 trips it stuck out like a sore thumb. I am sure that those are as good as it gets. I had a sheet of them. Anyone who tried them said it was the best most potent acid they will ever have. One hit scared the crap out of some people. That was not because they were super potent tabs. They were around 150 mics a piece. They were perfect, and better than any blotter even if the blotter was more potent. There Is no damn way that my perception is skewed because it was a different drug. This was LSD-25 at its best. Nothing but the pure. I have had blotters that were as "pure", but the most potent blotters were different(unwanted byproducts that contributed to body load). I guess I could say that if it is the best LSD you have to know LSD very well to know for sure. Lsd-25 is so damn specific.
I would almost compare the best most pure acid to mushrooms when not adulterated or tainted by unwanted byproducts.
The visuals after even a low dose are very noticable.
They give it the term clean, because the physical effects per visual unit are so subtle.


Ald may have been a bad example because it takes more processing, not less. It was indeed though of for a while as a legal and very on point legal alternative to LSD.
I have heard the same things about how enjoyable it is. It does have some other things that make it more different when compared to LSD, than the byproducts I was talking about.


Edited by stemmer (03/20/06 09:04 PM)


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Invisiblekaniz
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Re: WTF is "clean" acid supose to mean? [Re: stemmer]
    #5423371 - 03/20/06 09:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

All around, in full agreement with you. I've only tripped off of blotteres, and maybe 5 different batches in total.

of those batches - 4 have been /very/ good. Clean, pure, insightful, not edgy, no body load.

Mt last batch of LSD (before my most current), just had an edge to it. It felt like a sinister push, more machine then man, it felt very mathematical and disconnected. In many ways - it was still very much LSD, but with differences that sort of tinted the expierence slightly.

An interesting read (I'm still mid-read on it right now), that you may find of interest is LSD Purity - Cleanliness is next to godliness, but it talks about alot about pure vs impure.

I dont think the whole 'pure/clean vs impure/dirty' LSD is just a matter of persoanl reactions to the chemicals or wishfull thinking.

We are all not getting 95% pure needle-point LSD all the time - as much as we'd like to hope we are.


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Invisiblekaniz
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Re: WTF is "clean" acid supose to mean? [Re: kaniz]
    #5423384 - 03/20/06 09:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

And, digging up some more info

Quote:


A few years ago I had the opportunity to talk with two very seasoned LSD
chemists with over twenty years experience. I asked about the difference
between speedy" or "harsh" LSD compared to "clean" LSD and this is what they
told me (please excuse me if this does not make total sense, I am not a
chemist or doctor).

They told me that if a batch of LSD is not sufficiently purified then there
could be trace amounts of LSA or other LSD-type analogues that will act as
vassopressers, increase blood pressure, and cause the subject to fell
agitated. I do not know exactly which substances these would be, but they
assured me that this was the case with most homebrew LSD. They went on to
say that for proper LSD synthesis the chemist should dissolve and
recrystalize the LSD four seperate times to successfully remove all
adulterants or impurities left over from the initial synthesis. LSD that has
undergone this four-step process is commonly called Quad-Sep and is MARKEDLY
different that simple LSD that has only been through the purification
process once.

To test this theory specially trained psych-analysts were asked to try the
"before quad-sep" and "after quad-sep" samples of the same batch of LSD. The
analyst findings seemed to corroborate the assertion that QuadSep is cleaner
and more like the way LSD should be. The un-quad-sep batch was reported to
have that typically wringy LSD edge that one associates with "bad acid"
while the same batch that had been through the quad-sep process was reported
to be ultra-clean and was often referred to as "the best acid ever". Since
subject were aware of the study and the processes involved the set and
setting could have had something to do with their perceptions, but
participants in the quad-sep study have since come across the two different
"types" of LSD in different settings and have had no trouble telling which
was "clean" and which was "dirty".

Also, when it was explained to me the chemists I was speaking with could
name two or three adulterants that were the potential cause of the
vassopressive side effects (which include tingling in the extremeties, back
pain, trisma, a speedy or edgy feeling, etc), but I have since forgotton
exactly that they are and will have to dig up notes from a couple years ago
to recall them. In short though, Quad-Sep is the way to go.

James





Although, another person followed up to that post saying that the lack of a double-blind test invalidates, as as they knew which ones were pre-quad and post-quad wash - and their subjectivity on knowing which one was supposde to be better or not may of influenced their trips.

*shrug*, still a point to ponder regardless.


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: WTF is "clean" acid supose to mean? [Re: kaniz]
    #5423457 - 03/20/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

So true, and thanks for the new link. Your previous post was perhapse more useful that all our previous posts combined. Im glad you found that quote. Im still looking for leary's quote about the subject. He has a really negative point of view on the synth of lsd ever after the 80's.

Im not bragging, but just to show where im coming from.
I think Ive had around 16 different batches.
The best in order as far as the purity we have described:
Blue gels, purple gels, honey colored gels, liquid dropped onto sweet tarts, white unperfed,,,,Then there is the good inbetween acid and some of them were more potent than any of the above geltabs, included: many types of printed perfed blotters, a few white perfed/unperfed,,,,,the low end included: giant red plyable gel-tabs(they should be crisp not plyable), normal sized green plyable gel tabs, and a few white unperfed types that were not RC's but were really weak and impure. The worst acid I have ever had was actually liquid dropped onto suger cubes,(dropped twice). Even those were LSD to some extent.
The only ones I ever Knew were RC's were the red plyable gels, and some liquid dropped onto my tongue at some dead show. Go figure they were pretty damn potent but they certainly were not lsd, or had less lsd than some other substance. You would be surprized by how much Crap can fit into a super thick geltab.

SO basically, you cant know what the hell your getting, even if the dealer says its really pure and potent. If you know a dealer who knows a chemist, even then you dont know how pure it really is. It might be damn good regardless, but it might not be 100% clean and pure.


Edited by stemmer (03/20/06 09:39 PM)


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OfflineDLittle
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Re: WTF is "clean" acid supose to mean? [Re: stemmer]
    #5423889 - 03/20/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

wow stemmer. again thanks for the input, this is exactly what i was looking for.


--------------------
"I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to also." Mitch Hedburg

"Keep on dreamin', cuz when you stop dreamin' it's time to die" Blind Melon


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